Originally posted by h1a8
It’s important to clarify that while we do consider a character's highest feats, this is only applicable when directly representing that character in a forum fight.We do not use the highest feats of a third party to scale another character.
For example, if Character A exhibits strength ranging from 10 to 1000 tons due to fictional inconsistencies but is typically shown at 20 tons, and then strikes Character B, we can't assume Character B endured 1000 tons of force.
Moreover, characters like Gladiator (or any other similar character) are not holding back unless it is explicitly stated or shown in the narrative. Remember, these characters are fictional.
Even if the holding back theory is considered, it could undermine your argument. For instance, Hulk could have been holding back when he hit Abomination.
You realise the only strength feat Movie Thanos has is from beating up other characters right? Power scaling matters. It matters when one character pits his strength against another.
And of course Gladiator might be holding back lol. Regardless with Gladiator and Colossus there's plenty of showings (and power scaling against other characters) after their one fight that suggests Gladiator is much stronger.
Originally posted by h1a8
Thinking about it more. That's one hell of a feat. I always thought Hulk got kicked into the building, not completely through it. I would say that feat puts Abomination on Juggs level or above. Good catch.
Lmao next time try thinking first. Before immediately jumping to your keyboard to argue.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. That Hulk weighs < 1500lbs. Ragnarok and Avengers Hulk is wider and bulkier.
2. Hulk was kicked about 1-1.5 city block away. Possibly more than 100 tons yes.
3. Legs are generally twice as strong as arms. A x ton leg feat = x/2 strength level.
Originally posted by h1a8
Thinking about it more. That's one hell of a feat. I always thought Hulk got kicked into the building, not completely through it. I would say that feat puts Abomination on Juggs level or above. Good catch.
They're the same Hulk, TIH (2008) was taller 👆
No, it was much, much, much further.
Good, then we're all agreed Abomination wins 👆
Originally posted by Robtard
They're the same Hulk, TIH (2008) was taller 👆No, it was much, much, much further.
Good, then we're all agreed Abomination wins 👆
Apologies for the late response; I lost track of this thread.
Regarding the comparison, Norton's Hulk was taller but less broad than Ruffalo's Hulk. I'd estimate they both weighed around 1,200 lbs.
In the scene where Hulk was on the ground on the opposite side of the building that Abomination crossed to avoid gunfire, it’s worth noting how relatively weak these characters were depicted in that film.
Hulk was kicked roughly 100-200 initial feet, then breaking through a brick wall, then multiple layers of drywall and wood framing, and then another brick wall. Total distance was about a city block.
I would place Abomination's kicking feat in the 200-600 ton range, though this isn't an official calculation. Just calculate the force to accelerate a 1200lb mass through a 1-1.5 meters push distance to a speed of about 250ft/s - 333ft/s (Hulk traveled about 150-200 feet in about 0.6-0.7 of a second).
Remember, leg strength generally doubles that of upper body strength, so when comparing to feats involving upper body strength, Abomination's kick feat would be halved.
Regarding the bridge feat, it would require over 4,600 tons of force just to achieve the initial break, not including the additional force needed to punch through the steel floor and still retain enough power to shatter the bridge or the additional force to create a shockwave and destroy more of the bridge. Bridges made of reinforced concrete can withstand pressures of up to approximately 4,600 tons per square meter. At the upper estimate, the total force could potentially reach tens of thousands of tons.
This is stupid. Hulk's leviathan punch puts him above 100 tons by a lot and Abomination looked twice as strong as Hulk until Hulk got sufficiently angry enough to overpower him. Since TIH Hulk and Avengers Hulk are the same character, it stands to reason that Abomination was significantly stronger than a freshly transformed Avengers Hulk.
Originally posted by Psychotron
This is stupid. Hulk's leviathan punch puts him above 100 tons by a lot and Abomination looked twice as strong as Hulk until Hulk got sufficiently angry enough to overpower him. Since TIH Hulk and Avengers Hulk are the same character, it stands to reason that Abomination was significantly stronger than a freshly transformed Avengers Hulk.
Did you read anything? No one put Hulk under 100 tons. I even posted that Aboms kicking feat puts was probably in the 200-600 to range
Lastly Hulk in TIH was significantly weaker than Hulk in Avengers.
Aren't they all the same character? Just because they look different and have different performances does not make them different characters.
In comics, just because Alex Ross draws Superman one way, and John Romita Jr draws him in the next issue a different way, doesn't make them two different characters.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Aren't they all the same character? Just because they look different and have different performances does not make them different characters.In comics, just because Alex Ross draws Superman one way, and John Romita Jr draws him in the next issue a different way, doesn't make them two different characters.
No one is arguing that they are different characters, only that the Hulk in The Incredible Hulk is shown to be significantly weaker than the Hulk in The Avengers and Thor: Ragnarok.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not sure of the exact amount, but I can reasonably estimate that it should be less than the force required for Hulk's other major feats in his latter movies.
You admitted that Abomination was in the 200 to 600 ton range. Do your calculations with your space numbers and tell us how strong the chain was that you earlier scoffed at because they couldn't break it.
Originally posted by tkitna
You admitted that Abomination was in the 200 to 600 ton range. Do your calculations with your space numbers and tell us how strong the chain was that you earlier scoffed at because they couldn't break it.
After conducting research on industrial chains, it appears that the chain had a breaking strength of less than 160 tons. However, the most commonly cited estimates suggest a breaking strength in the range of 100-120 tons.
Keep in mind that leg strength is typically about twice as much as arm strength. If Abomination can apply 200-600 tons of force with his legs, then it's reasonable to estimate that he could exert around 100-300 tons with his arms, which seems consistent.
Gotta go with Abomination, especially scaling him to Hulk*, who has fought Ragnarok Thor and Thanos, punched and flipped a Leviathan ship, wrestled with a dog the size of a semi-truck, and rocked Surtur back with a leaping punch. Current Abomination is nearly double Professor Hulk's size, and was easily defending himself against Hulk's attacks in She-Hulk. Abomination did get knocked out from his own punch via Wong's portal though.
DP II Juggernaut has the bridge feat (an outstanding one), and is the superior combatant to Colossus, who is not near the opponent that Abomination has faced. Colossus only got the upper hand on Juggs through using the metal railing as a spiked striking glove and shoving the high-powered electrical cable up Juggs' caboose.
The fact of the matter is that you have two opponents that have feats primarily (with the exception of Juggs' bridge feat) based off scaling to their main enemies in their respective film and TV show. Going off that, Abomination is the clear winner.
*I know that scaling is hit-or-miss on this board, but I'm not talking about Keaton Batman scaling being able to beat Cavill Superman because he temporarily took down Nam-ek in the Flash. In this case, it is fitting for Juggs and Abom, as they are both super-strong and super-durable mass monster brutes that have shown their fighting chops against other super-strong and super-durable mass monster brutes. Emil simply has way more to go off in that regard.
Originally posted by John Murdoch
Gotta go with Abomination, especially scaling him to Hulk*, who has fought Ragnarok Thor and Thanos, punched and flipped a Leviathan ship, wrestled with a dog the size of a semi-truck, and rocked Surtur back with a leaping punch. Current Abomination is nearly double Professor Hulk's size, and was easily defending himself against Hulk's attacks in She-Hulk. Abomination did get knocked out from his own punch via Wong's portal though.DP II Juggernaut has the bridge feat (an outstanding one), and is the superior combatant to Colossus, who is not near the opponent that Abomination has faced. Colossus only got the upper hand on Juggs through using the metal railing as a spiked striking glove and shoving the high-powered electrical cable up Juggs' caboose.
The fact of the matter is that you have two opponents that have feats primarily (with the exception of Juggs' bridge feat) based off scaling to their main enemies in their respective film and TV show. Going off that, Abomination is the clear winner.
*I know that scaling is hit-or-miss on this board, but I'm not talking about Keaton Batman scaling being able to beat Cavill Superman because he temporarily took down Nam-ek in the Flash. In this case, it is fitting for Juggs and Abom, as they are both super-strong and super-durable mass monster brutes that have shown their fighting chops against other super-strong and super-durable mass monster brutes. Emil simply has way more to go off in that regard.
1. You can't scale The Incredible Hulk's Abomination to Professor Hulk because Hulk outside of The Incredible Hulk was significantly stronger.
2. Hulk fighting Abomination in She-Hulk never happened - it was erased.
3. When characters are compared using ABC logic, they don't share their highest feats; they share their average feats. So, Abomination only scales to Hulk's average feats.
4. The bridge feat is significantly beyond anything Hulk has done at an average level. Personally, I don't see any Hulk replicating that feat.
Leviathan feat: < 1,000 tons
Wrestling a huge dog: < 1,000 tons
Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, that's the part that's stupid.
Hulk uses car parts as weapons, even though those parts should feel like cardboard to beings of this caliber. Hulk gets hurt and nearly knocked out by steel chains, while Abomination is choked and unable to break free from them - both of which should be insignificant to beings of their strength. Abomination runs away from helicopter fire as if it poses a serious threat.
Lastly, consider the distances they jump, throw objects, and strike things away. In each instance, we can reasonably estimate their strength, which consistently appears to be below 100 tons. The only outlier is Abomination's kicking feat, which, at most, suggests a strength level of around 300 tons.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, that's the part that's stupid.
Agreed.
He'd have a stronger argument saying Smart Hulk is weaker simply because it's a clearly different incarnation of Hulk who is physically smaller.
Interestingly Abom takes a few punches from a p***ed Smart Hulk in the She-Hulk finale, although She-Hulk got the scene overwritten so that Hulk was never there.