Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Can I do it, after I am done with the unenviable task of watching WW 1984? Like the Namor vs Nam-ek thread, I find myself in the unenviable position of having a similar opinion as h1
Lol. Sure you can do it. Just please don't make me watch 1984 again. I can't stomach that. 😂
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You might want to read through the whole thread next time. tkitna literally said Wonder Woman wins due to superior skill and speed in their very first post (see below or just look at the very first response to this thread). The post you responded to was specifically in the context of who he believes is stronger. And even then, tkitna said that he thinks they're close.Now, whether you agree or disagree with that part about the strength is a different matter, but everyone so far, including tkitna, backs Diana for the win in a fight.
On topic, Wonder Woman would wreck She-Hulk IMO.
I was commenting on his, "I give Jen the nod". Sounded like he changed his mind.
Originally posted by h1a8
I was commenting on his, "I give Jen the nod". Sounded like he changed his mind.
No it didn't. He was obviously still commenting on strength v strength, not the rest of the fight. He said he gave Jen the nod meaning In Strength. And it was evident as he posted a compilation of all of Jen's strength feats in the same post challenging the strength feat of the church tower collapse. It's pretty obvious.
Originally posted by h1a8
I was commenting on his, "I give Jen the nod". Sounded like he changed his mind.
He didn't change his mind. He said WW wins right at the very start of his first post. He also considered She-Hulk stronger from the start.
So just admit that you were wrong and didn't read his post properly.
Originally posted by tkitna
You know what, go ahead. I'm open to it so give me your argument.
I believe their strength is quite comparable. Let me start with this feat:
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At 0:46:
Ares wraps Wonder Woman (WW) in multiple layers of a WW1 tank's moving track, made of steel. Structural steel has a tensile strength of around 30 tons per square inch. WW is also in a position with almost no leverage, as her arm is trapped downward, pressed to her side. The amount of force one can apply in this position is about 10-25% of their total lifting strength. If she can barely break the steel from that position, we can multiply the total force needed by 4-10 to estimate her total lifting strength.
At 2:29:
WW breaks free with such force that not only do the tracks appear to disintegrate into millions of dust-sized pieces, but the force also creates a shockwave that pushes Ares back. In retrospect, to barely break the steel is to match its tensile strength, but to break it in such a fashion likely requires 20-100 times more force (possibly over 1000 times for all we know).
Therefore, WW's lifting strength can approximated as 80 - 1000 times more force than what is required to BARELY break free of the multiple layers of steel that she was trapped in.
With any calculation, the force required to barely break the multiple layers of steel is easily more than 50 tons (it can be more than 200 tons, but I will not calculate the exact amount as it is not crucial).
So, multiply whatever result you think is reasonable by 80 - 1000 to approximate WW’s lifting strength.
I believe this feat should at least match any feat She Hulk has.
Originally posted by KingD19
No it didn't. He was obviously still commenting on strength v strength, not the rest of the fight. He said he gave Jen the nod meaning In Strength. And it was evident as he posted a compilation of all of Jen's strength feats in the same post challenging the strength feat of the church tower collapse. It's pretty obvious.
Originally posted by FrothByte
He didn't change his mind. He said WW wins right at the very start of his first post. He also considered She-Hulk stronger from the start.So just admit that you were wrong and didn't read his post properly.
I was completely wrong. I stand corrected.
Diana doesn't have many directly quantifiable strength feats but her fights with Doomsday, where she proved she can take his punches like a champ and even wound him with shield bashes, as well as her skirmish with Clark where she staggered him with a headbutt, and in general appearing in the same ballpark as Aquaman who is much stronger than Jen make her superior strength-wise.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Diana doesn't have many directly quantifiable strength feats but her fights with Doomsday, where she proved she can take his punches like a champ and even wound him with shield bashes, as well as her skirmish with Clark where she staggered him with a headbutt, and in general appearing in the same ballpark as Aquaman who is much stronger than Jen make her superior strength-wise.
The Doomsday fight is more about durability than strength. She also has her bracelets that take most of the brunt. Not sure about Arthur being much stronger than Jen either. He has the submarine feat which is awesome, but Jen never really showed any struggles in anything she did. Guess what i'm saying is we dont really know the upper tiers for any of these characters so its hard to say.
I just based my opinion on who seemed more impressive and I think its Jen. No big deal. I can see the other side of the argument and really can't argue because its all in how we perceive things (well except for H1 who constantly tries to put real world physics into his arguments in hopes of swaying people).
Originally posted by tkitna
The Doomsday fight is more about durability than strength. She also has her bracelets that take most of the brunt. Not sure about Arthur being much stronger than Jen either. He has the submarine feat which is awesome, but Jen never really showed any struggles in anything she did. Guess what i'm saying is we dont really know the upper tiers for any of these characters so its hard to say.I just based my opinion on who seemed more impressive and I think its Jen. No big deal. I can see the other side of the argument and really can't argue because its all in how we perceive things (well except for H1 who constantly tries to put real world physics into his arguments in hopes of swaying people).
To be honest without using physics and using perception I see both as near equals. I just had a problem with people thinking She Hulk is definitely stronger. That made me analyze the feats more (instead of rely on perception).
Originally posted by h1a8
To be honest without using physics and using perception I see both as near equals. I just had a problem with people thinking She Hulk is definitely stronger. That made me analyze the feats more (instead of rely on perception).
Its all good. I think they are close too and an argument can be made for either. Problem with Diana is she just doesn't have a ton of onscreen strength feats. We know she's strong, but the examples are limited. She's more about speed, skills, and her accessories.
Doesn't matter. We all agree WW wins in a fight.
Originally posted by tkitnaShe took a punch directly to her chest from Doomsday like a champ.
The Doomsday fight is more about durability than strength. She also has her bracelets that take most of the brunt. Not sure about Arthur being much stronger than Jen either. He has the submarine feat which is awesome, but Jen never really showed any struggles in anything she did. Guess what i'm saying is we dont really know the upper tiers for any of these characters so its hard to say.I just based my opinion on who seemed more impressive and I think its Jen. No big deal. I can see the other side of the argument and really can't argue because its all in how we perceive things (well except for H1 who constantly tries to put real world physics into his arguments in hopes of swaying people).
And she was able to punch his legs out from under him with a shield bash and most importantly we know this actually hurt him because his calf was glowing red after impact indicating his healing was taking place. She was clearly weaker than Doomsday but had the strength to harm him even with blunt force.
Same with staggering Clark with a headbutt. She has the strength to get Kryptonians to at least notice or react to her, but not enough to actually compete. This is still better than anything Jen does.
The submarine feat is literally orders of magnitude better than anything Jen ever did. The Akula Class 3, apparently the sub he lifted, weighs over 13,000 tons. You'd be hard-pressed to wank any feat of Jen's to be in the 50 ton range.
Even Diana's quantifiable feat in lifting that tank is arguably better than Jen's boulder throw. And she did it before unlocking her full strength!
Originally posted by NemeBro
Diana doesn't have many directly quantifiable strength feats but her fights with Doomsday, where she proved she can take his punches like a champ and even wound him with shield bashes, as well as her skirmish with Clark where she staggered him with a headbutt, and in general appearing in the same ballpark as Aquaman who is much stronger than Jen make her superior strength-wise.
Actually she wasn't able to tank Doomsday's punches. She mostly had to block them with her shield. Those she didn't block sent her flying.
She also didn't stagger Clark with a headbutt. She snapped his head back but that was it.
Originally posted by NemeBro
She took a punch directly to her chest from Doomsday like a champ.And she was able to punch his legs out from under him with a shield bash and most importantly we know this actually hurt him because his calf was glowing red after impact indicating his healing was taking place. She was clearly weaker than Doomsday but had the strength to harm him even with blunt force.
Same with staggering Clark with a headbutt. She has the strength to get Kryptonians to at least notice or react to her, but not enough to actually compete. This is still better than anything Jen does.
The submarine feat is literally orders of magnitude better than anything Jen ever did. The Akula Class 3, apparently the sub he lifted, weighs over 13,000 tons. You'd be hard-pressed to wank any feat of Jen's to be in the 50 ton range.
Even Diana's quantifiable feat in lifting that tank is arguably better than Jen's boulder throw. And she did it before unlocking her full strength!
Clark wasn't staggered, but his head did move so there's that I guess. Let's just be careful to not get strength and durability mixed up here.
The sub feat was good, but it doesn't mean other characters like Jen couldn't replicate something in the same weight range. She hurt the Hulk. The same Hulk that was supporting the weight of a whole hillside and building that was going to crush his friends.
Diana lifted and flipped a tank. She Hulk casually tossed a car a good distance. I don't see in any world where she couldn't duplicate the tank feat.
Wonder Woman lifted the tank at a peculiar angle, grasping it by the corner, which meant the majority of the weight was away from her. This situation is similar to trying to lift a chair by one of its legs (as in the strength challenge) and holding it in that manner.
Additionally, Wonder Woman smiled while holding the tank (when thinking about Steve and love), indicating that this feat was casual for her.
To estimate a lower bound of Wonder Woman's lifting capability, we can use two factors:
1. **Factor A:** This accounts for the difficulty of lifting an object at a challenging angle. For example, a 10 lb chair can feel like lifting a 100 lb chair when lifted by one leg, suggesting A = 10.
2. **Factor B:** This accounts for the casual nature of her lift. When something is done effortlessly (with a natural smile), it's reasonable to assume one can apply more than 4 times the usual force, so B = 4.
Multiplying these factors together gives us a combined factor of A times B = 40. Therefore, Wonder Woman can potentially lift AT LEAST 40 times the weight of the tank.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All powers and abilities on, Jen dominates when K.E.V.I.N. gets involved.And if anyone says that's outside help, then WW has no outside help either (i.e. no god-blessed attributes). And if anyone says K.E.V.I.N. only works in the MCU, I assumed it is just as powerful in a neutral universe.
A character's inherent powers can never be considered outside help. These powers are intrinsic to them and are possessed from the start. Otherwise, the "no outside help" rule would be meaningless and inapplicable.
However, K.E.V.I.N. only works within the MCU and has no power over DCEU scripts.
It's difficult to equate Wonder Woman using her inherent powers to Jen seeking K.E.V.I.N.'s help to alter the script. They are fundamentally different scenarios.
I'll rephrase for DarkSaint. Jen possesses the power to "Break the 4th Wall". It doesn't stop at K.E.V.I.N. as she literally came into the real world in the Marvel Offices, and it is supported by Deadpool & Wolverine with DP headbutting the camera and explaining how he breaks the 4th Wall. Breaking the 4th Wall is breaking the 4th wall and doesn't get nullified when she's somewhere else. If she felt like it, she could freeze time and complain about how Diana's hair stays so full of life in the middle of a brawl for example and then punch her silly and start time back up.