She-Hulk vs Wonder Woman

Originally posted by tkitna
Breaking the 4th wall for the win.

There is no "fourth wall" in a forum. This isn't a show with cameramen, special effects workers, etc.

Even if there were, Jen has never used breaking the fourth wall to win a fight. Almost every time she broke the fourth wall, it was to talk to the audience. In a fight, she only used it to address us. She displayed no special abilities (no time stop, no reality altering, etc) beyond communicating with the audience. Yes, she left the battlefield (which isn't allowed here) to talk to KEVIN, but that was within the Disney Plus app universe. A forum is not the Disney Plus app with its menu functions. Even KEVIN explained that she isn't real and that the CGI team makes her appear as she does—it's a show.

I thought fights take place in a neutral universe where everyone's powers work as they would in their native universes.... otherwise someone might argue there are no Greek Gods like in the DCEU to bless WW in a forum fight, so she loses her abilities.

But again, if we are having to handicap one side to give WW a win, that speaks volumes.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Watch the scene where she thinks about Steve saying the he loves her. She is scene smiling and very happy. Therefore she is lifting the tank with only a fraction of her strength. It's about percentage. It's impossible to casually lift something and then struggle to lift something that's 10% heavier. That's the status quo. Therefore if you disagree then you have to provide significant evidence to overturn the status quo.

2. We don't need to know exactly how much more but a general low level average would suffice.

3. That's because you are not very familiar with physics. You think throwing a car a short distance is peers or greater than lifting a tank at a weird angle (lifting a chair with one left with little leverage).? Or breaking several layers of solid steel into millions of dust-like pieces is that same as just breaking it in half. Or busting 50-100 tons of concrete with a single blow is somehow equivalent to throwing a boulder a 100-200 feet or so.

It's not a power at all.
Breaking the 4th wall is a dramatic technique used in literature, film, television, and theater where characters show awareness that they are part of a WORK. It's not a superpower a character has.

If you disagree then prove it is.

There is no camera crew, television set, etc in a forum fight.

1. So you know how much effort was put into something just by facial expressions, feelings, and noises. Lol ok.

2. Nobody needs to know physics at all when it comes to fictional characters like Superheros. Real world phyisics dont apply. The Hulk tossed a tank about 500 yards by its gun barrel. Are we to believe the gun barrel would stay intact and not bend or come apart supporting the weight of that tank? See, you can't apply physics to the imaginary.

3. Jen used breaking the 4th wall numerous times. Even changing the outcome of some scenarios. It's a legit option and it gives her a stomp win in this battle. There's nothing Diana can do about it.

There doesn't need to be cameras or television sets as long as their is some type of audience. We are the audience.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's not a power at all.
Breaking the 4th wall is a dramatic technique used in literature, film, television, and theater where characters show awareness that they are part of a WORK. It's not a superpower a character has.

If you disagree then prove it is.

There is no camera crew, television set, etc in a forum fight.

No look up her powers and abilities. Breaking 4th wall is legit one of her abilities. Same for Deadpool.

Remember even in their own shows/movies, other characters dont break the 4th wall unless they specifically have that ability. Like Nicepool in Deadpool and Wolverine can, but Wolverine cant in the same movie (and its half his film).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm glad I brought it up

😂 😱

Originally posted by Darth Thor
[B]No look up her powers and abilities. Breaking 4th wall is legit one of her abilities. Same for Deadpool.
/B]

H1's in a full blown panic now knowing that Diana has no chance in this fight. 😆

Originally posted by tkitna
H1's in a full blown panic now knowing that Diana has no chance in this fight. 😆

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No look up her powers and abilities. Breaking 4th wall is legit one of her abilities. Same for Deadpool.

Remember even in their own shows/movies, other characters dont break the 4th wall unless they specifically have that ability. Like Nicepool in Deadpool and Wolverine can, but Wolverine cant in the same movie (and its half his film).

😂 😱

She can break the 4th wall IF THERE EXISTS a 4th wall. 4th walls exists on television, etc not in forums. But guess what, anyone can. I can (if our audience is God and the angels) and you can.

Doesn't matter because talking to us during the fight would get her beat faster. It doesn't give her an advantage at all. Only a disadvantage.

Originally posted by tkitna
1. So you know how much effort was put into something just by facial expressions, feelings, and noises. Lol ok.

2. Nobody needs to know physics at all when it comes to fictional characters like Superheros. Real world phyisics dont apply. The Hulk tossed a tank about 500 yards by its gun barrel. Are we to believe the gun barrel would stay intact and not bend or come apart supporting the weight of that tank? See, you can't apply physics to the imaginary.

3. Jen used breaking the 4th wall numerous times. Even changing the outcome of some scenarios. It's a legit option and it gives her a stomp win in this battle. There's nothing Diana can do about it.

There doesn't need to be cameras or television sets as long as their is some type of audience. We are the audience.

1. Moving the goalposts. Lack of effort means you can apply multiple times more. Facial expressions in movies (storytelling) tells us a lot. Holding something up casually with a smile tells us a lot.

2. Then Daredevil is stronger than Hulk since math and physics does not apply. How else do we determine who is stronger? It's who we want to be stronger?

3. Well the moment she talks to us WW would be stomping her. Some advantage.

When she's breaking the 4th wall, nothing harms her as seen when she's able to cruise on the highway without needing to steer her car or pay attention to the road. Things just align for her.

Originally posted by h1a8
No chance to lose.
If Jen tries to talk to some audience (that don't exist) then she would get beaten faster. Talking to a non existent audience is a disadvantage, not an advantage.

She can break the 4th wall IF THERE EXISTS a 4th wall. 4th walls exists on television, etc not in forums. But guess what, anyone can. I can (if our audience is God and the angels) and you can.

Doesn't matter because talking to us during the fight would get her beat faster. It doesn't give her an advantage at all. Only a disadvantage.

😆 😆 😆 She is unaffected by the outside environment and can change outcomes of scenarios. There's no way for WW to win. This is a spite stomp.

Jen even breaks the 4th wall in her comics so its just not television. If there's an audience, she can break it.

Spite

Originally posted by h1a8

She can break the 4th wall IF THERE EXISTS a 4th wall. 4th walls exists on television, etc not in forums. But guess what, anyone can. I can (if our audience is God and the angels) and you can.

Doesn't matter because talking to us during the fight would get her beat faster. It doesn't give her an advantage at all. Only a disadvantage.

As expected, the route you've chosen to attack this line of argument is just terrible.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When she's breaking the 4th wall, nothing harms her as seen when she's able to cruise on the highway without needing to steer her car or pay attention to the road. Things just align for her.

Premise : She drove a car for a short while without paying attention.

Conclusion: Nothing can harm her while she is talking to the audience.

I'm sorry but that conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

Also I have had conversations with people in the car (looking at them) while driving. I even dozed off behind the wheel before. I guess that means I'm invincible too lol.

First, there is no audience her. This isn't a show.

Second, Talking to an audience has no bearing on preventing her from getting beat down. Things just align is fancy talk with no relevant meaning here.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
As expected, the route you've chosen to attack this line of argument is just terrible.

I still argue there is no 4th wall in a forum.
But even so, then it won't do her any good here.
I don't see how saying that is terrible.

Originally posted by tkitna
😆 😆 😆 She is unaffected by the outside environment and can change outcomes of scenarios. There's no way for WW to win. This is a spite stomp.

Jen even breaks the 4th wall in her comics so its just not television. If there's an audience, she can break it.

Spite

Stating things without proof is called making shit up.
She can be affected because that's the status quo and there is no proof to overturn it.
She only displayed communication with the audience (in which there isn't any here).

Show me the times the outside world affected her. And again, you ignored the last episode where she casually left (mind you, I see no forum rules about BFR or leaving the battlefield, so your argument there is moot) and could casually ignore whatever was happening in the episode.

Originally posted by h1a8

First, there is no audience her. This isn't a show.

Nice joke. Arguing against stupid arguments is better than no arguments at all. Keep this forum from being dead.

Stating things without proof is called making shit up.
She can be affected because that's the status quo and there is no proof to overturn it.
She only displayed communication with the audience (in which there isn't any here).

Of course there is an audience. We are the audience. We're currently talking about it right now. Samething in comics. The people reading is the audience.

She literally left her own show once on the Disney channel screen to ***** at the writers. She also specifically stated she breaks 4th walls and changes bad endings.

SnLB_SY5HNo&t=454s

Originally posted by tkitna
Of course there is an audience. We are the audience. We're currently talking about it right now. Samething in comics. The people reading is the audience.

She literally left her own show once on the Disney channel screen to ***** at the writers.

SnLB_SY5HNo&t=454s

Which she can do here, as her powers/abilities work as they would in her native universe.

Of course, h1 is welcome to nerf her and argue that her 4th wall abilities that she uses in her series don#t translate over to a forum fight, but that would be nerfing one side on purpose to give his side a win, which is underhanded and sneaky.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which she can do here, as her powers/abilities work as they would in her native universe.

Of course, h1 is welcome to nerf her and argue that her 4th wall abilities that she uses in her series don#t translate over to a forum fight, but that would be nerfing one side on purpose to give his side a win, which is underhanded and sneaky.

H1 isn't underhanded and sneaky. He's desperate. His character can't win this fight so he's just refusing the truth. It's like something a 2 year old would do.

Originally posted by tkitna
H1 isn't underhanded and sneaky. He's desperate. His character can't win this fight so he's just refusing the truth. It's like something a 2 year old would do.

So She Hulk wins by talking to the audience? That's desperate?
Navigating the Disney app (which a forum is not) doesn't somehow make her win.

Originally posted by tkitna
Of course there is an audience. We are the audience. We're currently talking about it right now. Samething in comics. The people reading is the audience.

She literally left her own show once on the Disney channel screen to ***** at the writers. She also specifically stated she breaks 4th walls and changes bad endings.

SnLB_SY5HNo&t=454s

We are not the audience because we will not ever see this fight happen. There is no audience.
And I've not only watched every episode of the show but I saw that YouTube video since the beginning of the thread. Again talking to the audience doesn't make her win.

The forum isn't a Disney app.
Leaving the app (if WW allows it) doesn't make her somehow win. She could barely navigate through app and she had no power. Kevin had the power.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Show me the times the outside world affected her. And again, you ignored the last episode where she casually left (mind you, I see no forum rules about BFR or leaving the battlefield, so your argument there is moot) and could casually ignore whatever was happening in the episode.

You claimed the outside world couldn't affect her. Now you turn it around and ask me to prove a negative?

I didn't ignore anything. Navigating through the Disney app (in a limited sense) to reach Kevin.
1. The forum is not a Disney app.
2. Leaving the battlefield has always been the rules.
3. Leaving the battlefield won't help her win. That's if WW allows her.

Quote the rule where leaving the battlefield loses you the battle.

Originally posted by h1a8
So She Hulk wins by talking to the audience? That's desperate?
Navigating the Disney app (which a forum is not) doesn't somehow make her win.

We are not the audience because we will not ever see this fight happen. There is no audience.
And I've not only watched every episode of the show but I saw that YouTube video since the beginning of the thread. Again talking to the audience doesn't make her win.

The forum isn't a Disney app.
Leaving the app (if WW allows it) doesn't make her somehow win. She could barely navigate through app and she had no power. Kevin had the power.

Your missing the big picture (not surprising). Leaving the Disney page is proof that she messes with reality. She is not tied down like other characters (WW). She has the ability to change what is going on around her. She certainly does win.

We are the audience. Debating on how the fight will play out. We've come to the conclusion that the 4th wall breaking is the Ace in the hole. Jen probably caused that by breaking the 4th wall and reminding us.

Barely navigate through? What? No power? What? She accomplished what she wanted to do. She manipulated Kevin. In Kevins own words, she obliterated the ending.

Jen wins in a shit stomp.

Originally posted by tkitna
Your missing the big picture (not surprising). Leaving the Disney page is proof that she messes with reality. She is not tied down like other characters (WW). She has the ability to change what is going on around her. She certainly does win.

We are the audience. Debating on how the fight will play out. We've come to the conclusion that the 4th wall breaking is the Ace in the hole. Jen probably caused that by breaking the 4th wall and reminding us.

Barely navigate through? What? No power? What? She accomplished what she wanted to do. She manipulated Kevin. In Kevins own words, she obliterated the ending.

Jen wins in a shit stomp.

Leaving the Disney show is only proof that she can leave the Disney show. Not anything else.
If it wasn't then she wouldnt need to leave to show to ask another entity to do something. She would have the ability herself as you are implying.

She has no power to change reality. Kevin has limited power to change things in her show or things he's contracted under. This is not her show but a forum fight. Kevin has no power to change anything because he doesn't write the script here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Quote the rule where leaving the battlefield loses you the battle.

Combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match. If they are removed from the arena against their will (being punched, thrown, teleported, etc.) and can make it back under their own power in a reasonable amount of time, then they are still in the fight. Obviously, if a combatant leaves the field and cannot return under their own power, then they have lost.

You been here long enough to know this.

Plus leaving the battlefield will not make her win.

Originally posted by h1a8
Leaving the Disney show is only proof that she can leave the Disney show. Not anything else.
If it wasn't then she wouldnt need to leave to show to ask another entity to do something. She would have the ability herself as you are implying.

She does have the ability. She just got the results she wanted by manipulating Kevin. She could have just refused if she wanted.

She has no power to change reality. Kevin has limited power to change things in her show or things he's contracted under. This is not her show but a forum fight. Kevin has no power to change anything because he doesn't write the script here.

She changed outcomes and left her own show. She has the power. She changed the minds of everybody here with her 4th wall breaking except for you because your upset thst your character can't win now.

There is no way for WW to win. Spite. [/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by tkitna
She does have the ability. She just got the results she wanted by manipulating Kevin. She could have just refused if she wanted.

She changed outcomes and left her own show. She has the power. She changed the minds of everybody here with her 4th wall breaking except for you because your upset thst your character can't win now.

There is no way for WW to win. Spite.

So, essentially, you're saying that in a forum fight, the battlefield is within the Disney app, where She-Hulk can leave and go to Kevin to ask him to change something? That's how she wins? She has no other power to change the reality of the battle except through Kevin?

Is this correct? If so, then let's continue. If not, then please address the following points:

1. The forum is not a Disney app. She is not in the Disney app while fighting Wonder Woman. This negates that argument.

2. Kevin has no power over anything except things he is contracted for in Marvel. He can't change anything involving other characters from other companies or any battlefield that doesn't belong to him.

3. Kevin has his own autonomy. He can decide whatever he wants, and there is no guarantee that he would help her win a forum fight.

4. Seeking outside help is not allowed. Leaving the battlefield to get outside assistance violates the rules.

5. She-Hulk does not know Wonder Woman and, in character, would initially try to fight her, which could result in a quick loss.

6. She-Hulk doesn't have the inclination to leave the battlefield and seek Kevin's help to avoid being knocked out. She only sought out Kevin because the plot was nonsensical and ridiculous, not because she was losing a single fight.

You need to address and defeat all six of these arguments (not just five or fewer). Failure to do so results in a concession and the loss of the debate.