Weakest person in Marvel or DC that can survive!!!

Originally posted by carver9
Nope, not what I'm going to say. What i am going to say is, since you agree that Spiderman durability isn't UN levels and my thread is no different than any other thread, we both agree this attack would kill Spiderman. I'm sure if I made a Darkseid vs Spiderman thread, you wouldn't use that scan on why Spiderman would defeat Darkseid.

No, I said it wasn't ALWAYS UN level. ALWAYS. See how I spotted your clumsy trap?

Also, your thread IS different. It involves anime/manga, which has different rules - and hence, I am arguing using different tactics. Look at you, pookie, getting owned again 😂

So you're making up your own rules? Maybe this thread isn't for you, Saint.

Originally posted by carver9
So you're making up your own rules? Maybe this thread isn't for you, Saint.

I am? I am using canon comics, no? What rules am I breaking or making up?

Is Spidey unusually powered up there? Is it a crossover comic?

Look, if you have something beyond 'no, I don't like it', then speak up pookie

Edit: also note I said 'tactics'. Not rules 😂

Maybe the English language isn't for you.

Im expecting you to think Spiderman is abstract levels in all of his threads, Saint

Originally posted by carver9
Im expecting you to think Spiderman is abstract levels in all of his threads, Saint

Nope. My scan answers your thread perfectly, you don't like it, set a better OP lol

No it doesn't because even you don't think he's at that level.

Originally posted by carver9
No it doesn't because even you don't think he's at that level.

Yet the canon comic clearly shows him surviving it, which is what your OP asked for. Maybe have a better thread next time.

I even asked on page 1 for you to clarify exactly what's happening, and my scan matches it all.

But you don't believe he's that durable which defeats his purpose in this thread. Thanks for stopping by. Anyone else wanna give this a try?

Originally posted by carver9
But you don't believe he's that durable which defeats his purpose in this thread. Thanks for stopping by. Anyone else wanna give this a try?

Where did I say that? Damn, man, you're just getting tied up ATM 😂

In this fight, can Spiderman lay on the ground while Batman unleashed all of his attacks on him without getting a scratch? Yes or no?

https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=512807&highlight=%22Spiderman+vs+Mongul%22

Originally posted by Galan007
*sigh* I feel like my posts regarding the general irrelevance of collateral damage, and the much higher importance of attack potency, are just falling on deaf ears to some here.

Like I said before: SPC was SS2-tier, and stated that his final Kamehameha had the power to destroy the solar system(which was corroborated in a guidebook, iirc.) That said, when SS2 Majin Vegeta kamikaze'd against Boo, he released the sum total of his energy(killing himself in the process), and this was the end result:

This is important because SS2 Majin Vegeta > SPC. And even though the collateral damage he caused 'only' appears to be nuke-like, we can logically infer that said kamikaze might've had solar system+ level potency within that localized area(ie. if you're inside the bubble, you are only surviving if you can endure a solar system buster.)

So why couldn't the Moro instance be the same, except his 'bubble' is on a galactic scale instead..? After all, we know that even low level God-tier characters can generate universe-busting shockwaves as a corollary of a short brawl between them, and Moro is orders of magnitude above that level, so...

ermm

^ Tien's Kikoho is another good example of an attack that causes smaller-scale collateral damage, but still has massive potency, yeah.

Even though Semi-Perfect Cell was orders of magnitude above Tien, his Shin-Kikoho was still able to briefly hold Cell at bay, whilst only producing relatively small hole in the battlefield:
https://ibb.co/FJmVR0k
https://ibb.co/rMjrK9v
*For what it's worth: an all-out attack from, say, Freeza would have been entirely ineffectual against that same version of Cell. He'd literally just stand there and no-sell it, in a manner similar to this.

Other good examples would be attacks like the Destructo Disc and SBC -- ie. very little collateral damage produced; massive potency delivered. But tbh, most energy attacks in DB can, and often do, function in the same kind of manner where the 'collateral damage : attack potency' ratio is concerned(which, again, is why collateral damage alone isn't always the most reliable measuring stick to use when gauging the power/potency of an attack.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Huh? I have provided evidence to support every single claim I've made here. If you don't like(or can't accept) DB-logic, then... Sorry? But that's just how it is.

How many dozens of writers has Superman, Batman, Hulk, Spider-Man, etc. had over the last 40 years? How many writers did DB have over the last 40 years?

There's your answer. DB had ONE writer... And if Toriyama himself wasn't physically writing the material, he was at least heavily involved in the overall creative process -- still pointing the story in the direction he wanted it to go.

Now, I'm certainly not saying that DB has always been 100% consistent across the board... But with power-scaling in particular, it has generally been very consistent. Flip side, a comic character's level can(and does) fluctuate wildly, depending on who's writing them at any given time. That's why power-scaling in comics will never be as reliable as it is with something like DB.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What does it matter how many writers wrote Superman

Originally posted by abhilegend
you're using out of universe logic to paper over in universe inconsistencies for DBZ character

I'm literally using canon examples straight from the source material to illustrate my point... And I've posted several examples now. Unfortunately this stuff doesn't just go away simply because you have a problem accepting it. /shrug

Originally posted by abhilegend
(as if Toriyama was consistent lol).

In the earlier days, he tried to make things as idiot-proof as possible with the introduction of power-levels. All you had to do was look at the number, and *boom*, you knew: a.) which character would win a fight, and b.) some of the things a character was capable of preforming with their given PL(that's how I know Krillin, for example, can destroy a planet, even though he never has/will.)

And even when Tori started getting heavy into transformation multipliers and whatnot, he still made scaling easy to grasp.
-SS3 > SS2 > SS1 > base.
-4th form Freeza > 3rd form Freeza > 2nd form Freeza > 1st form Freeza.
-Android #16 > #17 > #18 > #19/#20.
-Super-Perfect Cell > Perfect Cell > Semi-Perfect Cell > Imperfect Cell.
etc.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like I said, you'll not accept such chain scaling for comics characters but only for DBZ characters. Smells of hypocrisy.

This isn't "hypocrisy", it's just the facts. And if the facts make you salty, then apologies, but I don't know what else to tell you? /shrug

Originally posted by carver9
In this fight, can Spiderman lay on the ground while Batman unleashed all of his attacks on him without getting a scratch? Yes or no?

https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=512807&highlight=%22Spiderman+vs+Mongul%22

ALL his attacks? I'm sure I can dig something up.....but no, Spidey can't just tank it. Comic Vs comic characters, I'll use different tactics than what I am using here, as it's not with manga/anime characters.

Originally posted by Galan007
I explained why.

And I explained how it's hypocritical.

Eh... What?

Why can't we use scaling in comics just like we do in manga??

I'm literally using canon examples straight from the source material to illustrate my point... And I've posted several examples now. Unfortunately this stuff doesn't just go away simply because you have a problem accepting it. /shrug

I never said Tori was consistent across the board, lol. Just that he was typically consistent when it came to power-scaling in particular.

This isn't "hypocrisy", it's just the facts. And if the facts make you salty, then apologies, but I don't know what else to tell you? /shrug

Its double standards, hypocrisy is a bit strong word.

I mean we just be consistent, right?

In manga, a 'normal' human can do all manner of wonderful things (Krillin/Yamcha etc) because of training.

In comics, a 'normal' human can do all manner of wonderful things (Batman/Karate Kid etc) because of training.

So we be consistent. We accept all the crazy things the manga characters can do, and we accept all the crazy things the comic characters can do, and compare them together.

We don't do what Carv is doing which is 'average' out comic characters and allow high end feats from manga, because that's silly. If Spider-Man's high end feats have him taking punches from a universal Puma, from Silver Dagger, from the UN, that's crazy - but it's all just fiction.

It's funny that ABHI doesn't understand the difference between one writer handling something vs hundreds of writers handling one character. The funniest sh** I've seen besides Dark saying Zod is faster than Kara.

Originally posted by carver9
It's funny that ABHI doesn't understand the difference between one writer handling something vs hundreds of writers handling one character. The funniest sh** I've seen besides Dark saying Zod is faster than Kara.

🤣🤣🤣🤣