Zod vs Wonder Woman · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Also
"Zod learns. Zod stragegizes" *immediately draws the air out of his opponent's lungs"
Vs
"I'm fighting half out of my mind, and in my perspective I'm facing a guy who doesn't need to breathe(but in reality, WW needs to)"
This is also a very big difference IMO

Originally posted by batdude123
Aside from the fact that the Sacrifice arc is pure WW ***-sucking by Rucka, him not even being in the right mindset to know who he was fighting leaves enough plausible deniability to throw it out as a direct comparison.

Smurph tu quoqumber

Originally posted by Smurph
Imo the more pertinent fact about the Sacrifice fight is that Wonder Woman gets knocked out in the first half of the fight. That's a forum loss.
In my view, we could quibble about Superman's mindset, but in any event, the fight isn't evidence of her beating Zod.
The reason that I made the point about same opponent comparisons is that I think you see that pattern throughout. She can get some damage in, but none of it seems to tip the balance her way.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

👆

carver9 Senior Member

Did Supergirl hit Zod after that showing, Smurph and did anyone slower than Supergirl tag him. I'm asking due to the below.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But in your example, who said Amazo was faster than Superman, as fast as WW?
Was it WW herself?
Because in the same fight, we saw a powerless Zatanna speedblitzing (lmao) Amazo:
Before he could react, even. The only thing was she didn't harm him, but she was still fast enough to hit him and deflect his killing blow.

ODG Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course he can, his peer Superman did it on his death bed. He defeated Superman's stated equal Cyborg Superman.

Show me feats of Cyborg Superman that would justify your notion that he is Superman's equal. Superman, who has an unparalleled catalogue of actual on-panel feats and not mere lip service.

And if you continue to be completely flummoxed by the Gordian knot you've wrapped yourself in, then simply declare how this ABC logic resolves itself, i.e., is Zod > Cyborg Superman = Superman, or some derivation thereof?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Can you show us these statements or feats from Wonder Woman?
This is the best you can do? No wonder you are a limp wrist phaggot.

Wonder Woman actually defeated Superman. While holding back. Stop pretending to be ignorant of the comics. It only makes you look more butthurt.

ODG Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by batdude123
Unless people are willing to say WW > Superman, the whole point is irrelevant anyway.

This is reductionist drivel. And I am sorely disappointed that you'd even suggest it.

A holding back Wonder Woman defeated a bloodlusted Maxwell Lord-influenced Superman. Nobody is suggesting that this decisively concludes Wonder Woman is superior to Superman. I've said in the past that it represents an exceptional feat that should not be taken for the norm. But it did happen.

And that it did famously happen on-panel (or "infamously" based on your own bias) strongly tends against the simplistic notions being peddled that Zod -- who would have to stand on a high-chair to kiss Superman's a$$ -- would dominate Wonder Woman.

To act otherwise, is to pretend that substituting Wonder Woman with Zod during Sacrifice would've resulted in Zod defeating that bloodlusted Maxwell Lord-influenced Superman even worse than Wonder Woman did. Is such an absurd conclusion something you'd stand behind? N1gga, plz.

Accordingly, the Sacrifice fight which involved a holding back Wonder Woman who defeated a bloodlusted Maxwell Lord-influenced Superman is incredibly relevant to a discussion where you're talking about a non-holding back Wonder Woman fighting a non-blood-lusted Zod.

ODG Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by leonidas
but if you throw out the 'suffer for eternity' part, you're REALLY picking and choosing. and apparently conceding the point about purple prose because you don't seem to think he literally meant what he said. he just meant suffer for a long time. how long? who knows since we can't take his word for it. but he didn't REALLY try and kill her according to you guys--except he said he was trying to do exactly that. makes no sense to me and feels like you're dying on the wrong hill. also vastly different from your classic ds comparison. some convoluted 60's batman tv series plan is a terrible basis of comparison here because he manifestly states he was going all out, not holding back and trying to kill her. his words. and of course the villain doesn't always want to kill the hero. here we're told--explicitly--he wants to. it was the whole point.
regardless--none of it changes the fact that she was holding back. this is also circular. you'll say the one thing is more meaningful and i couldn't possibly disagree with your stance more... so yeah.

Co-signed. 👆

ODG Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Smurph
The reason that I made the point about same opponent comparisons is that I think you see that pattern throughout. She can get some damage in, but none of it seems to tip the balance her way.

"She can get some damage in"? Wonder Woman left a bloodlusted Superman gurgling on his knees while holding back:

That's (i) a lot of damage inflicted on (ii) her greatest ally, while (iii) holding back.

Are you arguing that a Wonder Woman who is not holding back in this thread would be less inclined/capable to inflict equal/greater damage upon Zod who is not her greatest ally and, indeed, the exact opposite, thus inflicting ultimately negligible damage?

By all means, accounting for Zod's apparent greater damage soak, make this argument.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by ODG
"She can get some damage in"? Wonder Woman left a bloodlusted Superman gurgling on his knees while holding back:
That's [b](i) a lot of damage inflicted on (ii) her greatest ally, while (iii) holding back.
Are you arguing that a Wonder Woman who is not holding back in this thread would be less inclined/capable to inflict equal/greater damage upon Zod who is not her greatest ally and, indeed, the exact opposite, thus inflicting ultimately negligible damage?
By all means, accounting for Zod's apparent greater damage soak, make this argument. [/B]

Zod isn't mistaking Wonder Woman for Doomsday who doesn't has a projectile weapon, retard.

What stops Zod from dodging a tiara thrown at him?

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Also Superman was just released from Lord's mind control, that was the reason he stopped.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XvOkLAL4jkg/Vnf0mT3RXmI/AAAAAAAAICQ/fB8XNgmngUg/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-i69AC86Bcbo/Vnf0mgIqaxI/AAAAAAAAICQ/lrK7RpFH8m4/s1600-Ic42/RCO021.jpg

In fact the very next comic shows Superman healed and lunging at Wonder Woman before she broke Lord's neck.

Serious damage, lol. Not only he's not on his knees, he's not even that much bothered by the small cut on his neck as seen in the third scan.

ODG Find Your Own Fire

^ Page-breaking scrub who decides to not even post scans from the actual Sacrifice arc chronicled though Superman vol.2 #219, Action Comics #829, Adventures of Superman #642, and Wonder Woman vol.2 #219.

Here are several scans across the Sacrifice arc showing that despite Superman not perceiving true events surrounding him, he nonetheless recognized insidiously close analogues to situations that mirrored/demanded "tactically brilliant" responses from Superman at every instant:

ODG Find Your Own Fire

What Maxwell Lord did was not simple rote mind-control. It was more akin to Fantomex's misdirection power. Except the Sacrifice arc exhaustively explored how much more insidiously effective Maxwell Lord's mental manipulation was. When Maxwell Lord decided to use less overt misdirection powers and inserted powerful mistrust into Superman's mind? Superman nearly dismantled the Justice League:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/55b58c3d-7495-46b9-924c-362614c7014e.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/7b897d6b-fb5e-4352-816b-a50577c04a32.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/ec404670-415f-4c1e-9fda-ee7db25718ca.jpg

Notice how Superman's reasoning and decision-making is completely intact. Superman even deliberates on Maxwell Lord's involvement in a turn of bitter irony. But Superman still tactically attacks the Justice League because he was manipulated into thinking they were the ones mentally compromised.

That is how potently effective Maxwell Lord's mental manipulation was. And all the facile protestations that Superman was somehow mentally compromised/crippled during the Sacrifice fight are missing the forest for the trees. The plot point of Maxwelll Lord's mental influence was not meant to excuse Superman's eventual performance so the audience could carelessly dismiss the 1v1 fight against Wonder Woman.

The entire Sacrifice arc was meant to establish and set the stage for unleashing a bloodlusted Superman upon Wonder Woman. A scenario that could normally never happen if both characters were in-character. Unless you had a unique plot device like Maxwell Lord. Whose power was uniquely and exhaustively demonstrated/explored for multiple issues to set up the 1v1 fight.

I implore you to set aside your goddamned butthurt. Accept the comics for what they are. At least for the narrowly limited purpose of rebutting the simplistically facile notion that Zod would dominate Wonder Woman. Because a holding back Wonder Woman ultimately defeated a bloodlusted Maxwell Lord-influenced Superman. That is on-panel fact.

If you balk at on-panel fact, then go ahead and declare that the Sacrifice arc is so unreliable that if you pitted a holding back Zod against that same bloodlusted Maxwell Lord-influenced Superman, Zod would defeat him even worse than Wonder Woman did on-panel.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by ODG
^ Page-breaking scrub who decides to not even post scans from the actual Sacrifice arc chronicled though Superman vol.2 #219, Action Comics #829, Adventures of Superman #642, and Wonder Woman vol.2 #219.
Here are several scans across the Sacrifice arc showing that despite Superman not perceiving true events surrounding him, he nonetheless recognized insidiously close analogues to situations that mirrored/demanded "tactically brilliant" responses from Superman at every instant:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/c4bccbbd-b69a-43d3-825d-8768cec1d57e.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/74b7c08e-bbb9-4367-87f1-935e13c932cd.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/e1300d54-17ac-4ee1-b3e6-112348dc05f3.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/cf1bee05-9406-4ce7-91d3-85d457274811.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/a3969da1-dc45-4052-bd04-d1b833cb2cad.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/d72cd61f-875c-490e-aafe-6f00506bd07b.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/7b4d4b77-a643-4965-9d8b-cbe65bd14d96.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/5f1ba2d4-f45b-4f5b-8dfa-539f44938546.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/d5c0929c-1625-4bf4-b3fd-29bf383cc947.jpg

Does Doomsday has a tiara to throw, you ****ing retard?

Originally posted by ODG
What Maxwell Lord did was not simple rote mind-control. It was more akin to Fantomex's misdirection power. Except the Sacrifice arc exhaustively explored how much more insidiously effective Maxwell Lord's mental manipulation was. When Maxwell Lord decided to use less overt misdirection powers and inserted powerful mistrust into Superman's mind? Superman nearly dismantled the Justice League:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/55b58c3d-7495-46b9-924c-362614c7014e.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/7b897d6b-fb5e-4352-816b-a50577c04a32.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/ec404670-415f-4c1e-9fda-ee7db25718ca.jpg
Notice how Superman's reasoning and decision-making is completely intact. Superman even deliberates on Maxwell Lord's involvement in a turn of bitter irony. But Superman still tactically attacks the Justice League because he was manipulated into thinking they were the ones mentally compromised.
That is how potently effective Maxwell Lord's mental manipulation was. And all the facile protestations that Superman was somehow mentally compromised/crippled during the Sacrifice fight are missing the forest for the trees. The plot point of Maxwelll Lord's mental influence was not meant to excuse Superman's eventual performance so the audience could carelessly dismiss the 1v1 fight against Wonder Woman.
The entire Sacrifice arc was meant to establish and set the stage for unleashing a bloodlusted Superman upon Wonder Woman. A scenario that could normally never happen if both characters were in-character. Unless you had a unique plot device like Maxwell Lord. Whose power was uniquely and exhaustively demonstrated/explored for multiple issues to set up the 1v1 fight.
I implore you to set aside your goddamned butthurt. Accept the comics for what they are. At least for the narrowly limited purpose of rebutting the simplistically facile notion that Zod would dominate Wonder Woman. Because a holding back Wonder Woman ultimately defeated a bloodlusted Maxwell Lord-influenced Superman. That is on-panel fact.
If you balk at on-panel fact, then go ahead and declare that the Sacrifice arc is so unreliable that if you pitted a holding back Zod against that same bloodlusted Maxwell Lord-influenced Superman, Zod would defeat him even worse than Wonder Woman did on-panel.

Your butthurt on the fact that your decade old nonsense of Wonder Woman defeating Superman by seriously injuring Superman ended up becoming a wet fart when you read the very next issue.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also Superman was just released from Lord's mind control, that was the reason he stopped.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XvOkLAL4jkg/Vnf0mT3RXmI/AAAAAAAAICQ/fB8XNgmngUg/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-i69AC86Bcbo/Vnf0mgIqaxI/AAAAAAAAICQ/lrK7RpFH8m4/s1600-Ic42/RCO021.jpg
In fact the very next comic shows Superman healed and lunging at Wonder Woman before she broke Lord's neck.
Serious damage, lol. Not only he's not on his knees, he's not even that much bothered by the small cut on his neck as seen in the third scan.

Counter this, phaggot. Show us where Superman is so incapacitated to count it as a defeat.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

yeah of course i'm not saying ww>superman. just arguing what happened here. i don't think it's pis. in a full on battle she would have a chance to beat him imo--it just wouldn't happen often. like i think she could beat zod, just not as often as he'd beat her.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah of course i'm not saying ww>superman. just arguing what happened here. i don't think it's pis. in a full on battle she would have a chance to beat him imo--it just wouldn't happen often. like i think she could beat zod, just not as often as he'd beat her.

She didn't beat Superman in Sacrifice either, as shown directly in the very next issue.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also Superman was just released from Lord's mind control, that was the reason he stopped.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XvOkLAL4jkg/Vnf0mT3RXmI/AAAAAAAAICQ/fB8XNgmngUg/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-i69AC86Bcbo/Vnf0mgIqaxI/AAAAAAAAICQ/lrK7RpFH8m4/s1600-Ic42/RCO021.jpg
In fact the very next comic shows Superman healed and lunging at Wonder Woman before she broke Lord's neck.
Serious damage, lol. Not only he's not on his knees, he's not even that much bothered by the small cut on his neck as seen in the third scan.

He's literally never incapacitated and she straight up says that if Lord gets control of Superman again, he'd surely kill her.

Sacrifice showed Wonder Woman barely survive against Superman and that's the best she can do against Superman who was entirely out of his mind, in the whole fight he landed one punch on her and that straight up knocked her out. She on the other hand used every dirty trick (flashing kryptonite on him, gouging his eyes, kneeing him in groin, cheapshot on ears from behind, cutting his throat) and nothing did more than slow him down momentarily, even the cut throat. Saying she kicked his ass as dumbo is saying while holding back is simply retarded.

carver9 Senior Member

She cut his throat and stopped attacking. She could've done far more damage after that "if she wanted". All she had to do was press her attack afterwards, but she didn't.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by carver9
She cut his throat and stopped attacking. She could've done far more damage after that "if she wanted". All she had to do was press her attack afterwards, but she didn't.

It's a tiara not a sword, what extra damage it could do carter?

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

And Zod has fought on with half his brain literally missing, so.......

carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by abhilegend
It's a tiara not a sword, what extra damage it could do carter?

The tiara went back to her hand after she sliced his throat (and let's not forget that she casually sliced his throat by the way). I'm just trying to figure out why you're asking me what kind of damage she could've done to him "with a weapon".

🤷🏿

Smurph tu quoqumber

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah of course i'm not saying ww>superman. just arguing what happened here. i don't think it's pis. in a full on battle she would have a chance to beat him imo--it just wouldn't happen often. like i think she could beat zod, just not as often as he'd beat her.

👆