Ultimate Predator (2018) vs T-X (Terminator 3)

Originally posted by h1a8
Please address this and not ignore it

### T-850 is Likely as Strong or Stronger Than the T-X
In fact, the T-850 has [B] MORE instances of overpowering the T-X than the other way around. One notable example is when the T-850 easily crushed the T-X's arm with its bare hand, which is strong evidence of superior strength.

Your argument for her being stronger is based on the few instances where she handled him. However, you're overlooking the numerous times he handled her, including the pivotal moment when he crushed her arm with his hand.

Then address this
### The T-X's Insane Lack of Speed
The T-X is remarkably slow. On multiple occasions, the T-850 casually walked up to her, grabbed her, and did what he wanted without her ever responding at all. In contrast, the Ultimate Predator is extraordinarily faster and more agile than the T-850, capable of ripping her apart or damaging her with plasma blast before she could respond. [/B]

There's nothing to address. Breaking the T-X's wrist when the T-X was already crippled doesn't mean anything. Also, she broke his grip and continued chasing John after that anyway.

There's nothing to argue. The T-850 outright stated that she was stronger than him. They had a H2H fight which ended with the T-X breaking the T-850's neck. The strength difference isn't huge, but it's there.

Like I said, the T-X ran fast enough to catch up to a speeding car. She, like all other terminators we've seen before, doesn't bother to dodge things she can tank. You keep saying the Autism Predator can rip her apart, but you have never provided a single feat supports that. If the T-850 which can stop a 20+ ton blast door with one arm can't beat her in H2H, the Predator definitely can't. Since her plasma cannon and her plasma reactor don't melt her chasis, it's a safe bet that she can tank a shot or two from the Predator before she kills him with her own cannon or just punches a whole in his chest.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I refuse to accept that horrible Shane Black film as canon, but assuming we are....

The T-X should still get a comfortable win here. The plasma bolts are powerful, as we saw them destroy a house, but managed to survive enough truck and helicopter explosions to suggest that the Pred's plasma bolts will only stun it at best, whereas the Pred has no durability feats suggesting that it can withstand a T-X plasma bolt. Strengthwise, the T-X holding up a nuclear blast door definitely outclasses anything the Predator has shown in terms of it's hands or it's blades. The way I see the fight going, the Predator will probably knock down the TX will one plasma bolt, but when it goes to shoot another, the TX will rise up and hit it with it's own, which will kill the Predator. The best the Predator can do is slow it down with plasma bolts, a stall tactic that only last so long. Any CQB confrontation is an automatic Predator death sentence.
.

T-X never held up a blast door.
The Ultimate Predator would walk up to her slowly, grab her arm or head, and rip it off before she makes any action. That's how slow she is.

Lastly, T-X would never land a blow even if the UP never attacked for an extended period of time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'Stronger than any man-made metal' is different from 'more advanced than man-made steel'. Which is it?

Originally posted by Psychotron
There's nothing to address. Breaking the T-X's wrist when the T-X was already crippled doesn't mean anything. Also, she broke his grip and continued chasing John after that anyway.

There's nothing to argue. The T-850 outright stated that she was stronger than him. They had a H2H fight which ended with the T-X breaking the T-850's neck. The strength difference isn't huge, but it's there.

Like I said, the T-X ran fast enough to catch up to a speeding car. She, like all other terminators we've seen before, doesn't bother to dodge things she can tank. You keep saying the Autism Predator can rip her apart, but you have never provided a single feat supports that. If the T-850 which can stop a 20+ ton blast door with one arm can't beat her in H2H, the Predator definitely can't. Since her plasma cannon and her plasma reactor don't melt her chasis, it's a safe bet that she can tank a shot or two from the Predator before she kills him with her own cannon or just punches a whole in his chest.

There was never a true contest of strength - just both of them manhandling each other, with the T-850 overpowering her more often.

Top running speed has no relation to combat speed.

Let's simplify the argument:

1. Do you think she could land a blow if the Predator simply dodged her attacks for three minutes without retaliating?

2. Do you believe the Predator is strong enough to rip off her arm or head if she didn't resist?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

I've already conceded that the wristblades are as strong as steel since we're only considering movie evidence. In my opinion, being more advanced suggests greater durability, especially given the wristblades' singular purpose - to cut through objects.

Additionally, in Alien vs. Predator, both the wristblades and the throwing disc were shown to be resistant to acid, where steel isn't.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've already conceded that the wristblades are as strong as steel since we're only considering movie evidence. In my opinion, being more advanced suggests greater durability, especially given the wristblades' singular purpose - to cut through objects.

Additionally, in Alien vs. Predator, both the wristblades and the throwing disc were shown to be resistant to acid.

Are we allowing feats from different films?

Also I did not see the concession - where did you concede this?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Are we allowing feats from different films?

Also I did not see the concession - where did you concede this?

Yesterday during my long post.

... we can conclude the wristblade is at least as strong as steel.

Oh that was with the words 'lowball estimate '. I don't think it is a lowball estimate, I think there's is simply no evidence full stop that it's any stronger than steel, let alone any man made alloy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh that was with the words 'lowball estimate '. I don't think it is a lowball estimate, I think there's is simply no evidence full stop that it's any stronger than steel, let alone any man made alloy.

I disagree - it's clearly intended to be stronger than standard man-made materials.
And I'm certain you wouldn't bet your life that it isn't.

Intended or not, your initial claim was wrong, which was what I was pointing out. Thanks for quoting your concession as I missed it.

Originally posted by h1a8
T-X never held up a blast door.
The Ultimate Predator would walk up to her slowly, grab her arm or head, and rip it off before she makes any action. That's how slow she is.

Lastly, T-X would never land a blow even if the UP never attacked for an extended period of time.

I will obviously concede the blast door feat as I misremembered that it was Arnie who was holding it, but as a replacement argument, the TX is a shape shifter to a certain extent, so the moment the Predator touches it, it could put the Predator's limbs into an unbreakable lock while it prepares it's plasma bolt and then, to paraphrase Dutch, "if it bleeds, she can kill it"

Originally posted by h1a8
There was never a true contest of strength - just both of them manhandling each other, with the T-850 overpowering her more often.

Top running speed has no relation to combat speed.

Let's simplify the argument:

1. Do you think she could land a blow if the Predator simply dodged her attacks for three minutes without retaliating?

2. Do you believe the Predator is strong enough to rip off her arm or head if she didn't resist?

She literally shoved him with enough force to send him flying. I'm not saying that that the T-X is massively stronger than the T-850 but she is stronger by feats and statements.

Yes, it does. Do you understand that Terminators choose not to dodge?

He's the 9 feet tall, she can easily hit him. Dodging a slow ass plasma bolt isn't the speed feat you think it is.

Of course not. The UP has no impressive strength feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Additionally, in Alien vs. Predator, both the wristblades and the throwing disc were shown to be resistant to acid, where steel isn't.

The wrist blades were melted by acid blood in AvP.

That plasma bolt was not slow at all, it was an instant shot and he dodged it from at most 5 meters distance.

https://youtu.be/bbhjliE9Ja4

Originally posted by Thinkerer
That plasma bolt was not slow at all, it was an instant shot and he dodged it from at most 5 meters distance.

https://youtu.be/bbhjliE9Ja4

He barely moved. Look at the trajectory. It would have grazed his shoulder if he hadn't moved. He also couldn't dodge the final projectile that killed him and it wasn't particularly fast.

Originally posted by Psychotron
She literally shoved him with enough force to send him flying. I'm not saying that that the T-X is massively stronger than the T-850 but she is stronger by feats and statements.

Yes, it does. Do you understand that Terminators choose not to dodge?

He's the 9 feet tall, she can easily hit him. Dodging a slow ass plasma bolt isn't the speed feat you think it is.

Of course not. The UP has no impressive strength feats.

The wrist blades were melted by acid blood in AvP.

As for the UP:
1. He shattered wrist blades with his bare hands
2. He punched through a Predator's head.
3. He easily ripped out a Predator's head and spinal column.

These feats clearly demonstrate that the UP has the strength to tear off her arm.

Can you provide a Timestamp? I only recall the wrist blades showing resistance to the acid.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've already provided a speed and reaction feat for the UP, so you need to explain how she can land a hit during a 3-minute window where he's solely focused on evading her attacks.

As for the UP:
1. He shattered wrist blades with his bare hands
2. He punched through a Predator's head.
3. He easily ripped out a Predator's head and spinal column.

These feats clearly demonstrate that the UP has the strength to tear off her arm.

Can you provide a Timestamp? I only recall the wrist blades showing resistance to the acid.

He dodged a plasma bolt that was going to graze shit shoulder otherwise. He got hit bullets and by that wrist-mounted weapon that killed him. He doesn't have some Spider-man level dodge.

1.The wrist blades are literally featless. We have no reason to assume they're stronger than steel. The fact that they broke instead of bended tells me they're brittle.
2. Okay, and? Predators have good damage soak, but they're not invulnerable. Bullets, blades and claws wound them.
3. Nothing that anyone with low-level superhuman strength can't replicate.

No, they don't. If the T-850 which can lift 20+ tons can't do it, the Ultimate Predator definitely can't.

Watch the first AvP fight. The Predator slashed the Alien's tail, which melts the wrist blades.

Originally posted by Psychotron
He dodged a plasma bolt that was going to graze shit shoulder otherwise. He got hit bullets and by that wrist-mounted weapon that killed him. He doesn't have some Spider-man level dodge.

1.The wrist blades are literally featless. We have no reason to assume they're stronger than steel. The fact that they broke instead of bended tells me they're brittle.
2. Okay, and? Predators have good damage soak, but they're not invulnerable. Bullets, blades and claws wound them.
3. Nothing that anyone with low-level superhuman strength can't replicate.

No, they don't. If the T-850 which can lift 20+ tons can't do it, the Ultimate Predator definitely can't.

Watch the first AvP fight. The Predator slashed the Alien's tail, which melts the wrist blades.

As for the T-850's arm and the door: its arm was braced against the ground, which provided a normal force supporting the back of the arm. Since the arm never lifted off the ground, the door wasn't actually lifted upward. Therefore, the weight of the door > T-850s strength.

If the T-850 were deactivated but had its arm positioned at a right angle against the ground before the door made contact, the arm alone could slow or stop the door purely due to its positioning. No lifting strength would be needed, similar to how dead objects resist movement in hydraulic press videos.

Originally posted by h1a8
The blast didn't hit him at all. The fact that he was able to react and move any amount in relation to it demonstrates a superhuman speed and reactions.
1. Metal swords, knives, and similar weapons often shatter under immense impact in movies. Even if the wrist blades were as strong as steel, shattering them with a bare hand showcases extraordinary strength and durability.
2. Predators are far more durable and significantly stronger than humans. Punching through a Predator's head requires incredible strength - something neither the T-X nor the T-850 can replicate.
3. Likewise, neither the T-X nor the T-850 can replicate the feat of ripping out a Predator's head and spinal column.

As for the T-850's arm and the door: its arm was braced against the ground, which provided a normal force supporting the back of the arm. Since the arm never lifted off the ground, the door wasn't actually lifted upward. Therefore, the weight of the door > T-850s strength.

If the T-850 were deactivated but had its arm positioned at a right angle against the ground before the door made contact, the arm alone could slow or stop the door purely due to its positioning. No lifting strength would be needed, similar to how dead objects resist movement in hydraulic press videos.

He barely moved, dude.

1. Okay, and? It's still brittle.
2.Ahahahahahahahah a black Predator which is canonically bigger and stronger got killed by a dude with a katana. A log killed killed the one in the original. GTFO with this shit. A Terminator punches through a Predator with ease.
3.Yes, they can. The blast door feat puts the T-850 in the 40-50 ton range easily.

You can head-canon this all you want, but the T-850 overpowered the blast door's motors with one arm and he did it from a position with terrible leverage.

Originally posted by Psychotron
He barely moved, dude.

1. Okay, and? It's still brittle.
2.Ahahahahahahahah a black Predator which is canonically bigger and stronger got killed by a dude with a katana. A log killed killed the one in the original. GTFO with this shit. A Terminator punches through a Predator with ease.
3.Yes, they can. The blast door feat puts the T-850 in the 40-50 ton range easily.

You can head-canon this all you want, but the T-850 overpowered the blast door's motors with one arm and he did it from a position with terrible leverage.

The claim that he "barely moved" is irrelevant. The fact that he moved at all demonstrates incredible reflex speed. He only needed to move far enough to avoid the blast - why would anyone move a mile to dodge something just a few inches in size? For speed calculations, he moved roughly 1 foot in the time it took the blast to travel a few feet.

1. It's a common trope in movies for metal to shatter when it collides with stronger materials. However, brittle doesn't mean weak. For example, diamonds are brittle, but they are far from weak - it takes superhuman strength to shatter them.

2. The UP is a genetically modified species, vastly stronger and more durable than standard Predators. It's 11 feet tall. The fact that the original Predator survived the log's impact is an incredible feat. The log weighed between 1 and 2 tons and fell for about 4 seconds (at least 200 feet). The resulting kinetic energy, momentum, and force are immense - do the math.

3. The T-850's arm ALWAYS remained in contact with the ground, meaning the ground provided a normal force that helped stop the blast door. It's similar to laying a tire on someone; it's their body that prevents the tire from touching the ground, not an applied lifting force. If its arm had cleared the ground, even slightly, it would demonstrate that 100 percent of its strength was responsible for stopping the door. Lol How do you jump from 20 tons to 40 - 50 tons in your argument?

Originally posted by h1a8
The claim that he "barely moved" is irrelevant. The fact that he moved at all demonstrates incredible reflex speed. He only needed to move far enough to avoid the blast - why would anyone move a mile to dodge something just a few inches in size? For speed calculations, he moved roughly 1 foot in the time it took the blast to travel a few feet.

1. It's a common trope in movies for metal to shatter when it collides with stronger materials. However, brittle doesn't mean weak. For example, diamonds are brittle, but they are far from weak - it takes superhuman strength to shatter them.

2. The UP is a genetically modified species, vastly stronger and more durable than standard Predators. It's 11 feet tall. The fact that the original Predator survived the log's impact is an incredible feat. The log weighed between 1 and 2 tons and fell for about 4 seconds (at least 200 feet). The resulting kinetic energy, momentum, and force are immense - do the math.

3. The T-850's arm ALWAYS remained in contact with the ground, meaning the ground provided a normal force that helped stop the blast door. It's similar to laying a tire on someone; it's their body that prevents the tire from touching the ground, not an applied lifting force. If its arm had cleared the ground, even slightly, it would demonstrate that 100 percent of its strength was responsible for stopping the door. Lol How do you jump from 20 tons to 40 - 50 tons in your argument?

Nobody cares about your meme calculations. The Autism Predator got hit by multiple projectiles after scene.

1. Nope. Don't care about other movies or movie tropes. You haven't show me a single durability feat for those blades.

2. The original Predator didn't survive the log. It was badly injured and killed itself to avoid losing to Dutch. The Predator from the second movie tried to kill himself after being shot with a shotgun several times because it was so wounded. One of the black Predators was killed by a regular man with a katana. Predators are tougher than humans, but several tiers below a Terminator.

3. His arm was clearly above the ground. The 40-50 tons estimate comes from the fact that those blast doors weigh 20-25 tons and he stopped it with one arm.