Indeed it was above the ground. You can check it here too
Indeed it was above the ground. You can check it here too
Originally posted by Thinkerer
Indeed it was above the ground. You can check it here too
I stand corrected.
Remembered it wrong.
The feat is still unquantifiable for the following reason:
The door was supported by a mechanical system as it was being lowered, and it was only slowed and stopped, not lifted upward. This means the T-850 didn't necessarily counter the full weight of the door. It only needed to stop the net force of the entire mechanism, which is less than the door's total weight. If the door had been in free fall - though it wasn't - the T-850 would have had to stop its entire weight.
Originally posted by PsychotronNothing I said was inaccurate, so how is it logically a lowball?
Stop trying to low ball the feat. The T-850 had to overcome the weight of the door and the force of the motors to stall them. Again, these types of doors weigh 20-25 tons and he did it with only one arm.
The mechanism supports the weight of the door as it lowers it. Without this support, the door would simply fall at the acceleration due to gravity.
The NET FORCE on the door as it lowers = WEIGHT of the door - LIFTING/SUPPORT FORCE exerted by the mechanism.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Here are the facts:
T-850 stalled motors that were manipulating a 20+ ton door with one arm.
T-X is more powerful than T-850 as admitted by the T-850 himself.The Predator has no strength feats on that level.
The motors don't push the door down; they adjust the amount of lifting force acting on it. As the door lowers, an upward force is applied (in which the motors are responsible for). Without this force, the door would accelerate downward at the rate of gravity (or even faster).
It's basic physics, dude.
Originally posted by h1a8
The motors don't push the door down; they adjust the amount of lifting force acting on it. As the door lowers, an upward force is applied (in which the motors are responsible for). Without this force, the door would accelerate downward at the rate of gravity (or even faster).It's basic physics, dude.
The motors are strong enough to lift the blast door. The T-850, which is less powerful than the terminator in this thread, stalled them with one arm.
Originally posted by Psychotron
The motors are strong enough to lift the blast door. The T-850, which is less powerful than the terminator in this thread, stalled them with one arm.
He wasn't pushing against the motor; he was pushing with it.
What part of "the motors were exerting an upward force" do you not understand?
If the motor had applied a downward force, the door would have been shown lowering at a rate faster than gravity.
The door was shown lowering at a speed slower than gravity. Therefore, something was applying an upward force to it.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm aware of that. The fact that he could stall those motors with one arm is still beyond anything a predator has ever done. Replace the T-850 with a predator and it gets squished.
The total force required to achieve the feat is less than the weight of the door. Exactly how much less is uncertain.
Based on how slowly the door was lowering, I'd estimate it to be less than half the weight of the door.
You're imagining what would happen to a Predator, but your imagination isn't fact. I can just as easily imagine a Predator doing the exact same thing as the T-850, and if it happened in a movie, no one here would have an issue with it.
The fact remains that a 7-8 ton helicopter pinned her down, and the T-850 was strong enough to break her forearm with his hand. That shouldn't be possible for someone of equal or lesser strength.
Bottom line: You're trying to quantify an unquantifiable feat. While it's clear the feat required more than 1 ton of force by the suspension of disbelief, we can't determine exactly how much more force was necessary.
Originally posted by h1a8
The total force required to achieve the feat is less than the weight of the door. Exactly how much less is uncertain.Based on how slowly the door was lowering, I'd estimate it to be less than half the weight of the door.
Great. That's still 10+ tons with one arm. Vastly greater than any Predator strength feat.
Originally posted by h1a8
I can just as easily imagine a Predator doing the exact same thing as the T-850
Then you're an idiot because the original Predator got killed by a falling log.
Originally posted by h1a8
The fact remains that a 7-8 ton helicopter pinned her down, and the T-850 was strong enough to break her forearm with his hand. That shouldn't be possible for someone of equal or lesser strength.
First of all, learn how leverages work. I can bench press 420lbs, I can deadlift 650, and I can squat 575. Pin my legs with 400lbs of metal and I wouldn't be able to lift them off me because I have no leverage. Second, I have no idea why you think you have to be stronger than someone to break their bones. The T-X was literally crippled and focusing on John Conor when the T-850 broke her wrist. Cut off Hafthor Bjornsson's legs and I'll break his bones too.
The fact of the matter is that the UP has absolutely no strength or durability feats that are on a terminator's level. You keep talking about how he punched through the other Predator's head when the T-850 and the T-X were effortlessly punching through thick concrete walls. It's ridiculous.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Great. That's still 10+ tons with one arm. Vastly greater than any Predator strength feat.Then you're an idiot because the original Predator got killed by a falling log.
First of all, learn how leverages work. I can bench press 420lbs, I can deadlift 650, and I can squat 575. Pin my legs with 400lbs of metal and I wouldn't be able to lift them off me because I have no leverage. Second, I have no idea why you think you have to be stronger than someone to break their bones. The T-X was literally crippled and focusing on John Conor when the T-850 broke her wrist. Cut off Hafthor Bjornsson's legs and I'll break his bones too.
The fact of the matter is that the UP has absolutely no strength or durability feats that are on a terminator's level. You keep talking about how he punched through the other Predator's head when the T-850 and the T-X were effortlessly punching through thick concrete walls. It's ridiculous.
I said LESS THAN, not equal to - comprehension is key.
You make a valid point about leverage, and I've taken that into consideration from the beginning. I just forgot to comment on it.
If the T-X can't lift the helicopter in that position then she can't lift three times the weight under normal circumstances. For example, I can lift 200 lbs above my head, but if my legs were pinned, I could lift close to half that weight off my legs.
The Ultimate Predator isn't the original Predator - he's significantly stronger and more durable.
As for the log incident, I've already explained it, and ignoring what I said is a form of trolling. Let me clarify again: the log weighed about 2 tons and fell for over 4 seconds, meaning it reached a speed of more than 128 ft/s. I'll leave it to you to calculate the momentum and kinetic energy of the log at the moment it struck the Predator.
But guess what? The Predator didn't die instantly or even get knocked out - it took the hit squarely on the head, and its skull wasn't smashed. Yet the Ultimate Predator easily punched through its skull.
What's even more impressive is the UP casually ripping its head and spinal column out. That requires far more force.
A human can't just grab a normal adult male's forearm and crush it with their bare hands without being insanely stronger. The T-850's ability to do so clearly demonstrates its superior strength.
In summary:
1. There is on-screen evidence showing that the T-850 is stronger than the T-X.
2. The door feat cannot be proven to require more than 2 tons of force.
3. The Ultimate Predator has reaction feats that surpass the speed of any attack the T-X can launch.
4. The UP has demonstrated enough strength to rip off the T-X's arm.
5. The UP is incredibly durable, with Predator wrist blades breaking against its hand and bullets bouncing off its skin.
6. The UP has a plasma caster as well.
Originally posted by h1a8
I said LESS THAN, not equal to - comprehension is key.You make a valid point about leverage, and I've taken that into consideration from the beginning. I just forgot to comment on it.
If the T-X can't lift the helicopter in that position then she can't lift three times the weight under normal circumstances. For example, I can lift 200 lbs above my head, but if my legs were pinned, I could lift close to half that weight off my legs.
The Ultimate Predator isn't the original Predator - he's significantly stronger and more durable.
As for the log incident, I've already explained it, and ignoring what I said is a form of trolling. Let me clarify again: the log weighed about 2 tons and fell for over 4 seconds, meaning it reached a speed of more than 128 ft/s. I'll leave it to you to calculate the momentum and kinetic energy of the log at the moment it struck the Predator.
But guess what? The Predator didn't die instantly or even get knocked out - it took the hit squarely on the head, and its skull wasn't smashed. Yet the Ultimate Predator easily punched through its skull.
What's even more impressive is the UP casually ripping its head and spinal column out. That requires far more force.
A human can't just grab a normal adult male's forearm and crush it with their bare hands without being insanely stronger. The T-850's ability to do so clearly demonstrates its superior strength.
In summary:
1. There is on-screen evidence showing that the T-850 is stronger than the T-X.
2. The door feat cannot be proven to require more than 2 tons of force.
3. The Ultimate Predator has reaction feats that surpass the speed of any attack the T-X can launch.
4. The UP has demonstrated enough strength to rip off the T-X's arm.
5. The UP is incredibly durable, with Predator wrist blades breaking against its hand and bullets bouncing off its skin.
6. The UP has a plasma caster as well.
This is so retarded that I don't even know where to begin.
First of all, if your legs are pinned and you're on your back, you absolutely cannot lift half of your overhead press max off your legs from that position. I know you're an unathletic nerd, so stop arguing about shit you don't know.
The UP got tackled off a cliff by a human at one point. Good luck doing that to a Terminator.
No, you haven't explained it. You've made shit up. You don't know how heavy the log was. Are you seriously suggesting the T-850 would have been damaged by that?
The Predator was mortally wounded, that was the point of that scene. The T-850 had no trouble stopping the door. There's no comparison.
There's nothing impressive about that. Bullets and katanas easily pierce regular Predators.
That's just not true. Humans break other humans' joints all the time. Sometimes on accident. The wrist is one of the easiest joints to break. It happens all the time in fights. Even if I agreed with your ridiculous argument, you're ignoring that the the T-X easily broke the T-850's neck earlier in the movie, so they've both broken each other's "bones".
In summary:
1 The T-X is stronger by feats and statements.
2 Lol please explain how you reached that number.
3 The ultimate predator got hit by regular humans.
4 Hahahahaha no. The UP is Engineer level at best.
5 It's not. Bullets hurt him, even if they didn't completely penetrate his flesh.
6 The T-X is built to withstand plasma. The UP is not.
Originally posted by Psychotron
This is so retarded that I don't even know where to begin.First of all, if your legs are pinned and you're on your back, you absolutely cannot lift half of your overhead press max off your legs from that position. I know you're an unathletic nerd, so stop arguing about shit you don't know.
The UP got tackled off a cliff by a human at one point. Good luck doing that to a Terminator.
No, you haven't explained it. You've made shit up. You don't know how heavy the log was. Are you seriously suggesting the T-850 would have been damaged by that?
The Predator was mortally wounded, that was the point of that scene. The T-850 had no trouble stopping the door. There's no comparison.
There's nothing impressive about that. Bullets and katanas easily pierce regular Predators.
That's just not true. Humans break other humans' joints all the time. Sometimes on accident. The wrist is one of the easiest joints to break. It happens all the time in fights. Even if I agreed with your ridiculous argument, you're ignoring that the the T-X easily broke the T-850's neck earlier in the movie, so they've both broken each other's "bones".
In summary:
1 The T-X is stronger by feats and statements.
2 Lol please explain how you reached that number.
3 The ultimate predator got hit by regular humans.
4 Hahahahaha no. The UP is Engineer level at best.
5 It's not. Bullets hurt him, even if they didn't completely penetrate his flesh.
6 The T-X is built to withstand plasma. The UP is not.
She wasn't on her back while trying to free her legs; she was in a sitting position. She forcibly tore her body away from her legs because she couldn't lift the helicopter off them. This implies that it required less force to tear her legs off than it would have to lift twice the weight of the helicopter.
As for the weight of the log, it's a straightforward calculation based on its dimensions and the known density of the average tree in the forest. If you're unwilling or unable to perform the calculation, I can provide it for you to review and verify.
I never claimed a Predator was as durable as a Terminator, nor did I claim the UP could punch through a Terminator's skull. My point was simply to illustrate the UP's strength - easily punching through a skull that a heavy log with significant momentum and kinetic energy could not.
We prioritize the highest feats, not the lowest. That's why you're relying on the door feat for your argument, correct? Don't attempt to play the "highest feat for my character versus the lowest feat for yours" game - it's not fair. By that tactic, I could argue that The Thing could defeat Superman. For fairness, we must compare the highest showings for both characters.
With that in mind, the UP reacted and moved in response to a crazily fast attack from just a few feet away. The T-X has no demonstrated attack speed even remotely comparable to that.
You're missing the main point: no human can crush another human's forearm bones by simply squeezing unless they are significantly stronger. You've created a strawman argument by bringing up unrelated ways humans can break bones. Yes, a weaker human could break a stronger human's neck, but crushing a bone through sheer grip strength requires a massive disparity in their physical power.
Finally, bullets bounced off the UP, and the wrist blades shattered against its hand. The UP is not only insanely durable but also has a plasma caster at its disposal, making it a formidable opponent.
Originally posted by h1a8
She wasn't on her back while trying to free her legs; she was in a sitting position. She forcibly tore her body away from her legs because she couldn't lift the helicopter off them. This implies that it required less force to tear her legs off than it would have to lift twice the weight of the helicopter.As for the weight of the log, it's a straightforward calculation based on its dimensions and the known density of the average tree in the forest. If you're unwilling or unable to perform the calculation, I can provide it for you to review and verify.
I never claimed a Predator was as durable as a Terminator, nor did I claim the UP could punch through a Terminator's skull. My point was simply to illustrate the UP's strength - easily punching through a skull that a heavy log with significant momentum and kinetic energy could not.
We prioritize the highest feats, not the lowest. That's why you're relying on the door feat for your argument, correct? Don't attempt to play the "highest feat for my character versus the lowest feat for yours" game - it's not fair. By that tactic, I could argue that The Thing could defeat Superman. For fairness, we must compare the highest showings for both characters.
With that in mind, the UP reacted and moved in response to a crazily fast attack from just a few feet away. The T-X has no demonstrated attack speed even remotely comparable to that.
You're missing the main point: no human can crush another human's forearm bones by simply squeezing unless they are significantly stronger. You've created a strawman argument by bringing up unrelated ways humans can break bones. Yes, a weaker human could break a stronger human's neck, but crushing a bone through sheer grip strength requires a massive disparity in their physical power.
Finally, bullets bounced off the UP, and the wrist blades shattered against its hand. The UP is not only insanely durable but also has a plasma caster at its disposal, making it a formidable opponent.
How much can you lift off your legs from a sitting position, h1? I'm a powerlifter with a 1700 total and I know it's a fraction of that. Don't try to peddle your bullshit math on me.
Oh good. I can't wait for another chatgpt calculation.
This is even more retarded. A falling log wouldn't punch through anyone's skull because of the surface area. It would just break your skull/spine. You can spin it any way you like, but that was log fatally injured the predator.
Oh now it's the highest showings? Because over in the Supergirl thread you were talking about averages. Funny innit? Either way, the T-850's showings include effortlessly bending a tyre iron, punching through concrete walls, overturning an ambulance, tanking being slammed through multiple building and cars, tanking being hit by a fire engine, stopping the blast door with one arm and probably more that I'm forgetting. And the T-X is more powerful than him by statements and feats.
The UP has also been hit by bullets and other projectiles. He was also tagged by regular humans. His speed is not impressive.
He snapped her wrist by twisting it while the T-X was literally crippled and had no way to get leverage AND she was focusing on John. You also conveniently forget that she shrugged him off after that and tried to go after John again. Finally, you keep ignoring that she also broke his neck when she defeated him in H2H which kills your entire point.
Bullets do not bounce off him. A bullet to the tusk made him bleed. A few shots to the back of the head stunned him which allowed a regular human to tackle him off a cliff. That would never happen to a Terminator. The T-X will punch through him with zero effort.
The plasma caster isn't as dangerous as you think it is. The T-X is designed to withstand plasma.
Originally posted by Psychotron
How much can you lift off your legs from a sitting position, h1? I'm a powerlifter with a 1700 total and I know it's a fraction of that. Don't try to peddle your bullshit math on me.Oh good. I can't wait for another chatgpt calculation.
This is even more retarded. A falling log wouldn't punch through anyone's skull because of the surface area. It would just break your skull/spine. You can spin it any way you like, but that was log fatally injured the predator.
Oh now it's the highest showings? Because over in the Supergirl thread you were talking about averages. Funny innit? Either way, the T-850's showings include effortlessly bending a tyre iron, punching through concrete walls, overturning an ambulance, tanking being slammed through multiple building and cars, tanking being hit by a fire engine, stopping the blast door with one arm and probably more that I'm forgetting. And the T-X is more powerful than him by statements and feats.
The UP has also been hit by bullets and other projectiles. He was also tagged by regular humans. His speed is not impressive.
He snapped her wrist by twisting it while the T-X was literally crippled and had no way to get leverage AND she was focusing on John. You also conveniently forget that she shrugged him off after that and tried to go after John again. Finally, you keep ignoring that she also broke his neck when she defeated him in H2H which kills your entire point.
Bullets do not bounce off him. A bullet to the tusk made him bleed. A few shots to the back of the head stunned him which allowed a regular human to tackle him off a cliff. That would never happen to a Terminator. The T-X will punch through him with zero effort.
The plasma caster isn't as dangerous as you think it is. The T-X is designed to withstand plasma.
The log didn't smash or crack open the Predator's skull. If it had been a human, their skull would have been shattered, and their brains splattered.
Most of the feats you mentioned - except punching through concrete walls and lifting an ambulance (neither of which happened) - are things a regular Predator can do. For instance, a Youngblood Predator was strong enough to one-punch KO and effortlessly lift a half-ton grizzly bear above its head. Predators with plasma casters are even stronger, and the UP is multiple times stronger than them.
People weren't using Supergirl's highest feats - they were scaling her off Clark's highest feats. In reality, Supergirl's top showings are slower than Wonder Woman's highest feats.
I agree that a Terminator is slightly stronger than a plasma caster-equipped Predator, but it's still weaker than the UP.
There were multiple scenes in the movie clearly showing bullets bouncing off the UP. You should rewatch the movie, as I don't recall a single instance where a bullet penetrated its skin. If that's the case, we stick to the highest feats. You also can't ignore the scene where a Predator's wrist blades shattered against the UP's hand. Don't argue against the writer's intent by suggesting their metal is as strong as steel or weaker - it was clearly intended to be superior.
Plasma reaches temperatures far higher than what melts Terminators (they were shown to melt in molten steel). Plasma can range from tens of thousands to millions of degrees Celsius. In the original Predator movie, plasma was shown melting the metal in Dutch's rifle.
Multiple plasma shots would cause significant damage to the T-X.
Why are we sticking to the highest feat for the Predator?
T-800s have walked through molten metal being poured on them: https://streamable.com/zmql yet nobody is arguing that we should take that as standard.
Or are we?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, Quinn headshotted the Predator at the end of the film with a pistol. Multiple times, in fact.Green blood, green blood everywhere.
Molten metal doesn't melt them instantly. It takes a little while but they will melt (as in T2). Plasma on the other hand is multiple times hotter than molten steel. It won't one shot them. But multiple shots should do significant damage.
This thread is about the UP, not the Predator.
Originally posted by h1a8yeah, Quinn headshotted the UP multiple times.
Molten metal doesn't melt them instantly. It takes a little while but they will melt (as in T2). Plasma on the other hand is multiple times hotter than molten steel. It won't one shot them. But multiple shots should do significant damage.This thread is about the UP, not the Predator.