Ultimate Predator (2018) vs T-X (Terminator 3)

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Jesus Christ can you crop your images instead of massively deforming the forum page?

Anyway, no the shot went wide, you can see it on the images. Even if the UP hadn't moved at all, it woudln't have even grazed him. And even if we are given to accept that it was, why the hell would the predator aim for the UP's left shoulder and nowhere else, with computer assisted aim? It literally makes no sense.

Also, just as an FYI, your own images completely tank your argument about the predator's shot being in any way faster than that of the T-X. Your calculation tries to up-jump the speed based on the distance between the Predator and the building, but we see that in the same amount of frames here both projectiles covered similar distance, the distance between the Predator and the UP compared to the distance between the T-X and the Terminator.

Claiming the shot would have missed when it was clearly aimed at his pectoral-deltoid area doesn't make it true. We can clearly see where the bolt is relative to his shoulder, and there's a reason the writer had him twist 45 degrees as it approached. Everyone who initially saw the film assumed he evaded the blast. You're the only one who initially thought otherwise - unless you're just saying that to win a debate and actually thought the same as everyone else when you first saw the scene.

You can agree to disagree on whether the shot would have struck his pectoral/deltoid area (though you might need your eyes/brain checked). However, that's irrelevant since you can't deny that he was already moving in relation to the shot before it reached him.

Wrong! The T-X was approximately 15–25 feet from Arnold. The Predator was about 30–50 feet from the building. Even if both distances were the same, the Predator's shot reached the building in about 0.29 second, whereas the T-X's blast took 0.45 seconds. Speed is determined solely by distance and time - nothing else.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He could also have aim-dodged, not actually dodged the plasma. Two different things.

Just before the Predator fires at the UP, we see the shoulder cannon preparing to fire. And the UP focussing on it (see the subwindow in the top left hand corner).

He sees the plasma caster, sees the barrell pointing a certain way, and moved out of the way. Nothing more.

Yet, he moves not only **after** the shot but also in direct relation to it as it travels through the air.

Even then, the T-X's telegraphing is even worse - taking an absurd amount of time to charge, point her arm, and fire. This does nothing to help your case. Give me another argument to dismantle - keep them coming.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yet, he moves not only **after** the shot but also in direct relation to it as it travels through the air.

Even then, the T-X's telegraphing is even worse - taking an absurd amount of time to charge, point her arm, and fire. This does nothing to help your case. Give me another argument to dismantle - keep them coming.

Not if he knows how Predator plasmacasters work, and the envelope of time he has to move.

Which he does not have with the T-X.

I am now just doing things step by step with you.

Oh dear lord the amount of babysitting I have to do with you is freaking agonizing. It's just like that whole 30mm chaingun ammo argument with you again...

Originally posted by h1a8
Claiming the shot would have missed when it was clearly aimed at his pectoral-deltoid area doesn't make it true. We can clearly see where the bolt is relative to his shoulder, and there's a reason the writer had him twist 45 degrees as it approached. Everyone who initially saw the film assumed he evaded the blast. You're the only one who initially thought otherwise - unless you're just saying that to win a debate and actually thought the same as everyone else when you first saw the scene.

45 degrees? Are you actually blind to how bodies move? Mate let me spell it out.

#1: This is the starting position.

#2: This is the point where the bolt would have struck the UP. Notice there's very little movement of the UP's body between the two frames, certainly no 45 degree turn of the torso, you might get a few inches out of the shoulder turn, but not 45 degrees.

#3: This is the point where the bolt struck the building, this is probably where you do get the 45 degree turn, a significant fraction of time after the shot had sailed passed it's shoulder.

You have confused yourself between the the point where the shot would have hit the UP, and the point where the shot hits the building as being one and the same thing. it's not, which also applies below.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong! The T-X was approximately 15–25 feet from Arnold. The Predator was about 30–50 feet from the building. Even if both distances were the same, the Predator's shot reached the building in about 0.29 second, whereas the T-X's blast took 0.45 seconds. Speed is determined solely by distance and time - nothing else.

Again, you've compared apples to oranges. What does the distance between the Predator and the building have to do with the distance between the Predator and the UP? They are two completely different and separate distance points. The distance between the T-X to the terminator, and the Predator and the UP are whats comparable here, and they both took 4 frames to reach their target.

Hmm, having trouble editing my posts so I'm just gonna post this.

Originally posted by h1a8
The UP can tear off arms or head and destroy it with the Plasma Caster.

Again, no it can't. It can break Yautja metal, but there's no way of proving it can break metal on a whole order of magnitude proven more durable. The T-X took an RPG-7 rocket to the torso completely undamaged, a rocket designed to punch holes in tank armor. Predators get knocked around and damaged by far far less, and the UP, while more powerful than standard Yautja, did get killed by less.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hmm, having trouble editing my posts so I'm just gonna post this.

Again, no it can't. It can break Yautja metal, but there's no way of proving it can break metal on a whole order of magnitude proven more durable. The T-X took an RPG-7 rocket to the torso completely undamaged, a rocket designed to punch holes in tank armor. Predators get knocked around and damaged by far far less, and the UP, while more powerful than standard Yautja, did get killed by less.

That's also assuming he broke the blades, which h1 has failed to prove. Something broke, but it could have been the mechanism holding the blades in place. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hmm, having trouble editing my posts so I'm just gonna post this.

Again, no it can't. It can break Yautja metal, but there's no way of proving it can break metal on a whole order of magnitude proven more durable. The T-X took an RPG-7 rocket to the torso completely undamaged, a rocket designed to punch holes in tank armor. Predators get knocked around and damaged by far far less, and the UP, while more powerful than standard Yautja, did get killed by less.

Its joints aren't as strong, as it was trapped under a 3.5-5 ton Chopa and had to rip its own legs off to escape instead of lifting the Chopa off. If it had the strength to tear itself apart, then so does the UP.

Originally posted by h1a8
Its joints aren't as strong, as it was trapped under a 3.5-5 ton Chopa and had to rip its own legs off to escape instead of lifting the Chopa off. If it had the strength to tear itself apart, then so does the UP.

Joints previously damaged by a helicopter crashing on top of it. Again, you compare apples to oranges. AND on top of this, you're assuming 2 things, 1, that the UP can generate similar physical forces of a helicopter crashing and exploding on top of the T-X, something the UP has never shown to be capable of doing, and two, you're falsely equating the UP to the T-X in it's own strength based on..... what exactly?

Are you really thinking that the UP's snapping of the blades suddenly matches the numerous strength and durability feats of the T-X, including it snapping the neck of a T-850, which is also made of hyperalloy? That is false equivalency on your part yet again.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Joints previously damaged by a helicopter crashing on top of it. Again, you compare apples to oranges. AND on top of this, you're assuming 2 things, 1, that the UP can generate similar physical forces of a helicopter crashing and exploding on top of the T-X, something the UP has never shown to be capable of doing, and two, you're falsely equating the UP to the T-X in it's own strength based on..... what exactly?

Are you really thinking that the UP's snapping of the blades suddenly matches the numerous strength and durability feats of the T-X, including it snapping the neck of a T-850, which is also made of hyperalloy? That is false equivalency on your part yet again.

You have no proof that the joints were intended to be damaged by the writer. It was never shown or alluded to. The reason I say 'intended' is because the T-X never existed and CGI isn't reality. The only thing the writer wanted us to know is that it was trapped. It had the strength to rip her legs off but not the strength to lift the Chopa off. Therefore, she lifts less than 14 tons under good leverage. Due to her disadvantageous position and leverage, she could only apply less than half of her lifting strength to pull her legs free.

The UP is stronger than her. Why?
A normal Predator is easily within the 2-4 ton range in strength - more than 10x stronger than the average human male. If the UP can effortlessly punch through a Predator's skull and rip out its spinal cord, overcoming the strength of its skull bone, and overcoming the resistive and connective muscles, ligaments, and tendons, then by the same reasoning, they are at least 10x stronger than a normal Predator. This puts them comfortably in the 20-40 ton range.

Note: They can also win simply by bombarding the T-X with plasma shots from a distance.

Originally posted by h1a8
The UP is stronger than her.

This is just blatant trolling at this point.

Originally posted by h1a8
You have no proof that the joints were intended to be damaged by the writer. It was never shown or alluded to. The reason I say 'intended' is because the T-X never existed and CGI isn't reality. The only thing the writer wanted us to know is that it was trapped. It had the strength to rip her legs off but not the strength to lift the Chopa off. Therefore, she lifts less than 14 tons under good leverage. Due to her disadvantageous position and leverage, she could only apply less than half of her lifting strength to pull her legs free.

I don't need to prove a negative. It is literally the only time the T-X sustained physical damage. Everything else was literally walked off without so much as a chip to her endoskeleton. This includes an RPG-7 hit. And, tha'ts still a strength feat far in excess of anything the UP demonstrated.

Originally posted by h1a8
The UP is stronger than her. Why?
A normal Predator is easily within the 2-4 ton range in strength - more than 10x stronger than the average human male. If the UP can effortlessly punch through a Predator's skull and rip out its spinal cord, overcoming the strength of its skull bone, and overcoming the resistive and connective muscles, ligaments, and tendons, then by the same reasoning, they are at least 10x stronger than a normal Predator. This puts them comfortably in the 20-40 ton range.

AHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! You LITERALLY pulled that number for a Predator's strength straight out of your ass!!! How the flying hell is a Yautja ever in the 2 to 4 ton range in strength in any movie ever? If the predators had 2 ton strength range, the jungle Predator would never have been so badly hurt by a falling log in Predator 1, and Danny Glover's character Mike Harrigan would never have been able to go toe to toe with the City Predator in Predator 2 for more than a hit. Where the actual hell did you pull that number from?

And no, you don't need to be 10 times the strength of a predator to rip out it's head and spinal chord. You are pulling some fantastical numbers right out of your butt crack here. A Yautja in full armor weighs in at approximately 520 pounds. Without it they weigh in on average between 250 and 350 pounds. They are on average stronger than the average human, but not f@cking 10 times more.. My god man. A T-800 in it's skin sheath weighs in at 640 pounds according to the one and only source that ever gave the Terminator it's weight, the SC Chronicles. Which is still about 20 percent lighter than a T-600 with it's rubber skin.

Now, the T-X is said by the Terminator itself to be considerably physically more capable than a T-850, that as mentioned before, held open a set of bunker doors. T-800s that have bench pressed pickup trucks, been used as a freakin missile to down a chopper mid flight with no real damage, survived a tanker exploding in it's ass, and survived several encounters with an even more advanced terminator in the T-3000.

Now, stop trying to pull numbers out of thin air. Or do, and continue to amuse me, and prove you don't actually have a clue as to what you're doing. Either way with this, your reputation is in tatters. If you want the Yautja to have this mythical fantastical strength, and the UP even moreso, you need to back it up with onscreen feats, and not speculative nonsense.

Originally posted by h1a8
Note: They can also win simply by bombarding the T-X with plasma shots from a distance.

Assuming the shots do more damage than an RPG-7 at minimum, considering she shrugged off that too.

Oh yeah, And held an entire bus aloft with one hand. timestamp from 3:24

YouTube video

Pretty neat right?

I've stated this before h1 silently conceded by not responding to my points, but the T-X houses a plasma reactor in her chassis. Since it doesn't melt her, and her plasma cannon doesn't melt her arm, it's safe to assume she can take the extreme heat of plasma.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I don't need to prove a negative. It is literally the only time the T-X sustained physical damage. Everything else was literally walked off without so much as a chip to her endoskeleton. This includes an RPG-7 hit. And, tha'ts still a strength feat far in excess of anything the UP demonstrated.

AHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! You LITERALLY pulled that number for a Predator's strength straight out of your ass!!! How the flying hell is a Yautja ever in the 2 to 4 ton range in strength in any movie ever? If the predators had 2 ton strength range, the jungle Predator would never have been so badly hurt by a falling log in Predator 1, and Danny Glover's character Mike Harrigan would never have been able to go toe to toe with the City Predator in Predator 2 for more than a hit. Where the actual hell did you pull that number from?

Not being knocked out or having its skull shattered by the log is an insane feat. Do the math - calculate the momentum and kinetic energy of a 1.5–2 ton log falling for over 4 seconds.

And no, you don't need to be 10 times the strength of a predator to rip out it's head and spinal chord. You are pulling some fantastical numbers right out of your butt crack here. A Yautja in full armor weighs in at approximately 520 pounds. Without it they weigh in on average between 250 and 350 pounds. They are on average stronger than the average human, but not f@cking 10 times more.. My god man. A T-800 in it's skin sheath weighs in at 640 pounds according to the one and only source that ever gave the Terminator it's weight, the SC Chronicles. Which is still about 20 percent lighter than a T-600 with it's rubber skin.

Now, the T-X is said by the Terminator itself to be considerably physically more capable than a T-850, that as mentioned before, held open a set of bunker doors. T-800s that have bench pressed pickup trucks, been used as a freakin missile to down a chopper mid flight with no real damage, survived a tanker exploding in it's ass, and survived several encounters with an even more advanced terminator in the T-3000.

Now, stop trying to pull numbers out of thin air. Or do, and continue to amuse me, and prove you don't actually have a clue as to what you're doing. Either way with this, your reputation is in tatters. If you want the Yautja to have this mythical fantastical strength, and the UP even moreso, you need to back it up with onscreen feats, and not speculative nonsense.

Assuming the shots do more damage than an RPG-7 at minimum, considering she shrugged off that too.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh yeah, And held an entire bus aloft with one hand. timestamp from 3:24

YouTube video

Pretty neat right?

That is not the T-X nor the same universe.
I estimate the T-X having 3-5 ton strength and the UP having more than twice that.

Originally posted by h1a8
You claimed the joints were damaged - you have to prove it. That's not a negative. My argument is that the joints don't share the same durability as the non-joint areas for the reasons I provided. You didn't rebut any of those reasons; you just repeated your argument. Also, you mean durability feat, not strength feat.

Because it was the only time the T-X sustained any damage at all throughout the entire movie. The same joints that withstood the explosive shock of RPGs, being inside an active Hadron collider, multiple fights with the T-850, and more. You have no reason for believing the joinds were any weaker than the rest of the thing's frame except 'Because'. Thats not good enough. And the T-X ripping it's own legs off with it's own strength is not a weakness nor a strength. It's the T-X ripping it's own legs off with it's own strength. You have absolutely no basis for comparison for this compared to the UP or anything else. So why does the UP suddenly have the strength to match it?

Originally posted by h1a8
Lifting 2–4 tons is barely superhuman. Based on their top feats, they easily fall within that range. You can't use low showings to draw a faulty conclusion.

Not being knocked out or having its skull shattered by the log is an insane feat. Do the math - calculate the momentum and kinetic energy of a 1.5–2 ton log falling for over 4 seconds.

Barely superhuman based on comic book scaling, and even then you still cannot quantify it, because if you could have, you would have by now.

You have absolutely failed to quantify any of the Yautja's strength feats at any level besides being beyond human.

Considering both the T-X and T-850 plus other terminators have taken WAY less damage from way more powerful sources (Again RPGs, being run over by trucks, being rammed through buildings ect, ect.) What are you even trying to get at?

Originally posted by h1a8
You actually need to be 20 times stronger than something to rip out its spinal cord. I said more than 10 times to lowball it. I'm more than 10 times stronger than a toddler or various animals, yet I still can't do that to them.

Again, unquantified unquantifiable bla bla bla, you would think Scorpion was a megahuman in strength compared to every other MK fighter based on that shitty logic. You are obviously completely incapable of proving any of this with factual evidence and your gonna claim to be some genius engineer physicist medical doctor hybrid next to say your opinion is fact. Not the first time you tried that stunt with the 30mm ammo bullshit you tried.

Originally posted by h1a8
The T-850 is stronger than the T-X. He crushed her forearm with his hand. What is shown holds more weight than what is said. Therefore, she doesn't get any of his highest or average feats.

With the exception that by his own words, she was stronger, which completely f@cks your entire point on this straight into the dirt.

Originally posted by h1a8
Different type of damage - plasma ranges from tens of thousands to millions of degrees Celsius. We know Terminators will eventually melt in molten steel

If it were that hot, it would have ignited a human body as soon as it hit it, as in flash fried and reduced to ashes.

Oh Hello Blaine's body with a fist sized hole and no other damage.

Oh hello mack's still intact body.

Shall I mention Agent peter keys who survived a shot from the Plasma Caster? Or Mike Harrigan who's only damage was to his body armor?

Now lets compare that to the fact that Terminators need to be subsumed in molten steel for considerable lengths of time before terminal shutdown occurs. it isn't instant. The Plasma from the casters do not burn that long, as proven by Harrigan's plate carrier, and the fact that he was able to take the thing off before any significant or permanent damage is done. If it was burning for that hot for long enough, I could maybe concede this point, but no, thats not what happens, and you are pulling fantastical feats out your butt yet again.

Originally posted by h1a8
That is not the T-X nor the same universe.
I estimate the T-X having 3-5 ton strength and the UP having more than twice that.

And I do not care what your estimates are if they arn't backed by the feats. Here is one absolutely quantifiable feat for you. What did it take to finally actually kill each of them. The T-X was finally finished off by a miniature hydrogen bomb blowing up INSIDE her. What did it take to finally end the UP?

I'll give you a hint. It was something considerably less.

Have a look and tell me which is the more pathetic death scene.

Vid1
Vid2

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Because it was the only time the T-X sustained any damage at all throughout the entire movie. The same joints that withstood the explosive shock of RPGs, being inside an active Hadron collider, multiple fights with the T-850, and more. You have no reason for believing the joinds were any weaker than the rest of the thing's frame except 'Because'. Thats not good enough. And the T-X ripping it's own legs off with it's own strength is not a weakness nor a strength. It's the T-X ripping it's own legs off with it's own strength. You have absolutely no basis for comparison for this compared to the UP or anything else. So why does the UP suddenly have the strength to match it?

Barely superhuman based on comic book scaling, and even then you still cannot quantify it, because if you could have, you would have by now.

You have absolutely failed to quantify any of the Yautja's strength feats at any level besides being beyond human.

Considering both the T-X and T-850 plus other terminators have taken WAY less damage from way more powerful sources (Again RPGs, being run over by trucks, being rammed through buildings ect, ect.) What are you even trying to get at?

Again, unquantified unquantifiable bla bla bla, you would think Scorpion was a megahuman in strength compared to every other MK fighter based on that shitty logic. You are obviously completely incapable of proving any of this with factual evidence and your gonna claim to be some genius engineer physicist medical doctor hybrid next to say your opinion is fact. Not the first time you tried that stunt with the 30mm ammo bullshit you tried.

With the exception that by his own words, she was stronger, which completely f@cks your entire point on this straight into the dirt.

If it were that hot, it would have ignited a human body as soon as it hit it, as in flash fried and reduced to ashes.

Oh Hello Blaine's body with a fist sized hole and no other damage.

Oh hello mack's still intact body.

Shall I mention Agent peter keys who survived a shot from the Plasma Caster? Or Mike Harrigan who's only damage was to his body armor?

Now lets compare that to the fact that Terminators need to be subsumed in molten steel for considerable lengths of time before terminal shutdown occurs. it isn't instant. The Plasma from the casters do not burn that long, as proven by Harrigan's plate carrier, and the fact that he was able to take the thing off before any significant or permanent damage is done. If it was burning for that hot for long enough, I could maybe concede this point, but no, thats not what happens, and you are pulling fantastical feats out your butt yet again.

And I do not care what your estimates are if they arn't backed by the feats. Here is one absolutely quantifiable feat for you. What did it take to finally actually kill each of them. The T-X was finally finished off by a miniature hydrogen bomb blowing up INSIDE her. What did it take to finally end the UP?

I'll give you a hint. It was something considerably less.

Have a look and tell me which is the more pathetic death scene.

Vid1
Vid2

Any reasonable person would assume a Predator can lift at least a car with its strength - it's far more unreasonable to assume otherwise. Lifting 2–4 tons is barely superhuman. As I said, one must be at least 20 times stronger than the target that you easily rip their spinal column out. You completely ignored my proof on that.

Using low showings holds no weight, yet that seems to be your go-to tactic - cherry-picking weak feats that contradict stronger ones to undermine an argument. From now on, don't present a showing as evidence if higher, contradictory feats exist. Plasma bolts are at least 10 times hotter than molten steel and have caused significant damage to humans and other objects.

What is shown > what is said. You ignored that completely and then doubled down with the "f@cks your entire point on this straight into the dirt" comment.

Fiction often defies real-world science, especially when it comes to collateral damage. These writers aren't scientists.

We know for a fact that plasma reaches tens of thousands to millions of degrees. The plasma bolt is small and concentrated, yet it burned holes through people, instantly burned trees in half, etc.

Originally posted by h1a8
Any reasonable person would assume a Predator can lift at least a car with its strength - it's far more unreasonable to assume otherwise. Lifting 2–4 tons is barely superhuman. As I said, one must be at least 20 times stronger than the target that you easily rip their spinal column out. You completely ignored my proof on that.

When have we ever seen anything from any Yautja that can equate to dead lifting a car? We see nothing of the sort. And if you wanna get super knitpicky like you do with the terminators, should I restrict that to JUST the 2018 movie?

You provided absolutely no proof at all, just your assertion that it's true. With the way you debate, being both a hyppocrite and pulling numbers out of thin air, I do not believe your assertion on it's own, and never will.

Originally posted by h1a8
Using low showings holds no weight, yet that seems to be your go-to tactic - cherry-picking weak feats that contradict stronger ones to undermine an argument. From now on, don't present a showing as evidence if higher, contradictory feats exist. Plasma bolts are at least 10 times hotter than molten steel and have caused significant damage to humans and other objects.

It is the EXACT same thing you are doing for the Terminator. The only difference is I use the evidence we have as a complete whole, and don't cherry pick high end and discard low ends to suit my purposes.

If you have evidence to back your claims, then show it. I've shown my evidence, and you can't ignore it.

Originally posted by h1a8
What is shown > what is said. You ignored that completely and then doubled down with the "f@cks your entire point on this straight into the dirt" comment.

We see numerous instances where the T-X overpowers the T-850, so the statement is supported by what's onscreen. I didn't say the T-850 was helpless, but it was outmatched.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fiction often defies real-world science, especially when it comes to collateral damage. These writers aren't scientists.

😆 😆 😆

Oh my god that's a convenient asspull to get out of trying to prove your case. So the science maths and physics matter to you except when they don't right? You are a one way analysis machine gone rogue. Any other excuses?

Hey, let me pose to you a hypothetical.

This is a 10 ton strength feat for Gregor according to you, in fact probably more considering it takes much more strength to crush a skull than sever vertibrae. Yet...

He can't fully decapitate a horse with a f@cking claymore, and not weakened by poison.

You would ignore the low end entirely despite the fact that both are true? And on top of this, nobody is going to support Gregor has a 10 ton in strength. Why, because we never see him deadlift 10 tons. The exact same logic of principal applies to the UP. You on the otherhand insist you are right without providing anything to support it. The only thing you have is that the UP is the head pull. If it had this fantastical 50 ton strength, or even 10, why didn't the yautja's head explode when it punched it in the face mere seconds before the head rip? The logic you use is obviously faulty and makes no sense.

Originally posted by h1a8
We know for a fact that plasma reaches tens of thousands to millions of degrees. The plasma bolt is small and concentrated, yet it burned holes through people, instantly burned trees in half, etc.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fiction often defies real-world science

I do not thing you understand how fictional plasma often works. Heck Star Trek uses plasma as a Coolant.

Originally posted by h1a8

Note: They can also win simply by bombarding the T-X with plasma shots from a distance.

When has the UP ever shown the propensity to do so? We are not in control here.

Post proof that he just stands back and does so.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
When have we ever seen anything from any Yautja that can equate to dead lifting a car? We see nothing of the sort. And if you wanna get super knitpicky like you do with the terminators, should I restrict that to JUST the 2018 movie?

You provided absolutely no proof at all, just your assertion that it's true. With the way you debate, being both a hyppocrite and pulling numbers out of thin air, I do not believe your assertion on it's own, and never will.

It is the EXACT same thing you are doing for the Terminator. The only difference is I use the evidence we have as a complete whole, and don't cherry pick high end and discard low ends to suit my purposes.

If you have evidence to back your claims, then show it. I've shown my evidence, and you can't ignore it.

We see numerous instances where the T-X overpowers the T-850, so the statement is supported by what's onscreen. I didn't say the T-850 was helpless, but it was outmatched.

😆 😆 😆

Oh my god that's a convenient asspull to get out of trying to prove your case. So the science maths and physics matter to you except when they don't right? You are a one way analysis machine gone rogue. Any other excuses?

Hey, let me pose to you a hypothetical.

This is a 10 ton strength feat for Gregor according to you, in fact probably more considering it takes much more strength to crush a skull than sever vertibrae. Yet...

He can't fully decapitate a horse with a f@cking claymore, and not weakened by poison.

You would ignore the low end entirely despite the fact that both are true? And on top of this, nobody is going to support Gregor has a 10 ton in strength. Why, because we never see him deadlift 10 tons. The exact same logic of principal applies to the UP. You on the otherhand insist you are right without providing anything to support it. The only thing you have is that the UP is the head pull. If it had this fantastical 50 ton strength, or even 10, why didn't the yautja's head explode when it punched it in the face mere seconds before the head rip? The logic you use is obviously faulty and makes no sense.

I do not thing you understand how fictional plasma often works. Heck Star Trek uses plasma as a [b]Coolant. [/B]

I'm not going to do math to prove they can lift at least 2 tons - it's common sense. Anyone who can casually rip out an entire human spinal column is at least a 2-tonner. If you don't believe that, you're an idiot, and debating this is a waste of time.

I also proved that you need to be significantly more than 10 times stronger than the being whose spinal column you're ripping out, yet you keep ignoring the evidence.

The T-X never overpowered Arnold - not even once. Do you even understand what "overpower" means? They never engaged in a direct contest of strength. Meanwhile, Arnold crushed her arm with his hand. He's stronger.

You cherry-pick low showings for the characters you argue against while using the highest showings for the ones you support. You’re no better than Quanchi112 the troll.