Ultimate Predator (2018) vs T-X (Terminator 3)

Originally posted by h1a8
Not sure how much damage her flamethrower would do to him if it connects, given his superhuman durability.

The T-X's primary long-range weapon is the plasma shot, only switching to the flamethrower after it was damaged.

Even then, the UP has a plasma cannon, which would give it the advantage in a firefight due to its superior speed and his reaction time.

You misunderstand my point. Either because of your inability to grasp it, or your lack of willingess to?

I am saying that the UP seems to need to activate its superhard skin (i.e. its durability). This is shown by its skin changing colour when active.

How it performs against AoE attacks (plasma shots/explosions/flamethrower) is suspect, as every time attacks were made on it that were larger than bullet sized (like when the Loonies attacked, or when Quinn fought it) it displayed no special durability.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You misunderstand my point. Either because of your inability to grasp it, or your lack of willingess to?

I am saying that the UP seems to need to activate its superhard skin (i.e. its durability). This is shown by its skin changing colour when active.

How it performs against AoE attacks (plasma shots/explosions/flamethrower) is suspect, as every time attacks were made on it that were larger than bullet sized (like when the Loonies attacked, or when Quinn fought it) it displayed no special durability.

We already discussed that. It activates its skin durability at the start of the fight with plenty of time to spare. So what's your point?

My argument is that it won't get hit by plasma shots or flamethrowers for the reasons I gave.

It has durability feats against bullets and cutting weapons. You can argue its skin was activated then, which is fair, but the same will apply in this fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
We already discussed that. It activates its skin durability at the start of the fight with plenty of time to spare. So what's your point?

My argument is that it won't get hit by plasma shots or flamethrowers for the reasons I gave.

It has durability feats against bullets and cutting weapons. You can argue its skin was activated then, which is fair, but the same will apply in this fight.

It has never shown doing it with large areas of its skin. Only small areas.

When/after large attcks were performed against it (Loonies, Quinn) it was unable to then even defend against normal knife strikes (Baxley) or normal handguns. you cannot give it special attributes (it is durable against plasma shots) without proof.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It has never shown doing it with large areas of its skin. Only small areas.

When/after large attcks were performed against it (Loonies, Quinn) it was unable to then even defend against normal knife strikes (Baxley) or normal handguns. you cannot give it special attributes (it is durable against plasma shots) without proof.

It was shown to be bulletproof, with bullets bouncing off its body, and its hand demonstrated extreme cut resistance.

When did I say it was durable against plasma shots?
I stated that it can withstand punches and kicks from a Terminator without being severely damaged or knocked out. I also stated that it would not be hit by a plasma shot.

So ignoring my point about large areas of its body. Trolling, then.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So ignoring my point about large areas of its body. Trolling, then.

I already said I never argued that the UP is durable against plasma shots (a term with no clear meaning). So what does this "large area" argument have to do with withstanding punches and kicks or evading plasma shots?

Flamethrower/plasma cannon fires.

Envelopes UP.

Durability of UP not shown against large scale attacks.

No durability to be assumed for UP against such weapons.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flamethrower/plasma cannon fires.

Envelopes UP.

Durability of UP not shown against large scale attacks.

No durability to be assumed for UP against such weapons.

The flamethrower was only activated after the primary weapon was disabled.

Originally posted by h1a8
The plasma shot is relatively small compared to the UP's size and moves much slower than the one he evaded, so it won't hit him here.

The flamethrower was only activated after the primary weapon was disabled.

I'm sorry... Forgive my ignorance on the matter. But when was this: (Timestamp at 3:21) YouTube video

considered to be faster than this: (Timestamp at 0:11) YouTube video

In terms of actual projectile speed?

From what I can see, the T-X's shot hit instantaneously, while the Predators caster shot, while fast, was not as fast, as you can see the projectile.

Also, as an aside... The UP didn't even dodge that shot, just turned it's head. Didn't even lean. That means it's not dodging the plasma caster shot, but that the Predator's shot was a really really crappy shot that went way wide.

I seem to recall making this argument as well before h1 pussied out.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'm sorry... Forgive my ignorance on the matter. But when was this: (Timestamp at 3:21) YouTube video

considered to be faster than this: (Timestamp at 0:11) YouTube video

In terms of actual projectile speed?

From what I can see, the T-X's shot hit instantaneously, while the Predators caster shot, while fast, was not as fast, as you can see the projectile.

Also, as an aside... The UP didn't even dodge that shot, just turned it's head. Didn't even lean. That means it's not dodging the plasma caster shot, but that the Predator's shot was a really really crappy shot that went way wide.

Assuming the time between cut scenes is accurate, you'd need to calculate the total time from when the bolt first enters the air to when it strikes Arnold, then divide the approximate distance by that time to get the average speed.

Easy Way to Calculate Both Average Speeds:

Use a stopwatch and play the video clips at 0.25x speed (YouTube has that option in the settings).

My Results:
- After 5 trials, the average time the T-X bolt was in the air was about 1.8 seconds.
- Dividing by 4 to get real time: 0.45 seconds.
- Estimated distance between Arnold and T-X: 15–25 feet (the truck was about 40–50 feet from the door she exited).
- Approximate bolt speed: 33–56 ft/s.
- In the Predator scene, the average time was 1.16 seconds.
- Dividing by 4 to get real time: 0.29 seconds.
- Estimated distance between the Predator and the building behind the UP: 30–50 feet.
- Approximate bolt speed: 103–172 ft/s.

Using the highest estimate for the T-X bolt and the lowest estimate for the Predator's bolt, the Predator's bolt is still about twice as fast.

Don't take my word for it - do the experiment yourself. A minimum of 5 trials per scene is necessary for a proper estimate.

Additional Points:
2. The Predator turned his torso to avoid the attack. Rewatch the scene in slow motion - leaning isn't the only way to dodge. The key point is that he reacted in time.
3. Not only was the T-X's plasma shot significantly slower (as I've proven), but she took an eternity to charge and telegraph her attack by pointing before firing. The tactic isn't practical in this fight, making the projectile speed comparison irrelevant.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I seem to recall making this argument as well before h1 pussied out.

Originally posted by h1a8
Assuming the time between cut scenes is accurate, you'd need to calculate the total time from when the bolt first enters the air to when it strikes Arnold, then divide the approximate distance by that time to get the average speed.

Easy Way to Calculate Both Average Speeds:

Use a stopwatch and play the video clips at 0.25x speed (YouTube has that option in the settings).

My Results:
- After 5 trials, the average time the T-X bolt was in the air was about 1.8 seconds.
- Dividing by 4 to get real time: 0.45 seconds.
- Estimated distance between Arnold and T-X: 15–25 feet (the truck was about 40–50 feet from the door she exited).
- Approximate bolt speed: 33–56 ft/s.
- In the Predator scene, the average time was 1.16 seconds.
- Dividing by 4 to get real time: 0.29 seconds.
- Estimated distance between the Predator and the building behind the UP: 30–50 feet.
- Approximate bolt speed: 103–172 ft/s.

Using the highest estimate for the T-X bolt and the lowest estimate for the Predator's bolt, the Predator's bolt is still about twice as fast.

Don't take my word for it - do the experiment yourself. A minimum of 5 trials per scene is necessary for a proper estimate.

It's amazing you can claim to calculate the speed of a plasma bolt from the T-X when we do not see the actual bolt on screen. That blows your entire theory right out of the water.

Originally posted by h1a8
Additional Points:
2. The Predator turned his torso to avoid the attack. Rewatch the scene in slow motion - leaning isn't the only way to dodge. The key point is that he reacted in time.
3. Not only was the T-X's plasma shot significantly slower (as I've proven), but she took an eternity to charge and telegraph her attack by pointing before firing. The tactic isn't practical in this fight, making the projectile speed comparison irrelevant.

#2: He turned his head, not his torso, not till well after the bolt had passed. That does not excuse the fact that the predator's shot was still a good meter off to the side of the UP's shoulder. You cannot wiggle out of that wide a shot difference, no matter how much you try to wordplay it.

#3: You didn't prove it though, all you did was speculate with no evidence of the bolt itself being present on screen. But even if I were to entertain that, yes, I do admit, the Plasma Cannon shot did have significant time to transform from arm to cannon and building up the shot. Nobody argues that. What difference does that make to the price of tea in China? I mean what do you even think the UP can do to the T-X? it's not breaking enhanced hyperalloy that tanked RPG-7 rounds directly to it's chasis - a feat of durability far in excess of anything Predator made metals have sustained so far.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It's amazing you can claim to calculate the speed of a plasma bolt from the T-X when we do not see the actual bolt on screen. That blows your entire theory right out of the water.

#2: He turned his head, not his torso, not till well after the bolt had passed. That does not excuse the fact that the predator's shot was still a good meter off to the side of the UP's shoulder. You cannot wiggle out of that wide a shot difference, no matter how much you try to wordplay it.

#3: You didn't prove it though, all you did was speculate with no evidence of the bolt itself being present on screen. But even if I were to entertain that, yes, I do admit, the Plasma Cannon shot did have significant time to transform from arm to cannon and building up the shot. Nobody argues that. What difference does that make to the price of tea in China? I mean what do you even think the UP can do to the T-X? it's not breaking enhanced hyperalloy that tanked RPG-7 rounds directly to it's chasis - a feat of durability far in excess of anything Predator made metals have sustained so far.

The bolt is clearly visible onscreen. If it weren't, then why would you assume the Predator's bolt is slower if you can't see it?

In the Terminator scene, if you play it at 0.25x speed (pausing and playing to slow it down further), you can clearly see the bolt being emitted and released from her arm in the first scene. If you can't, then you should get your eyes checked - because that means I win this debate.

In the next cut, we see the moment before it connects with Arnold, followed by the moment it actually connects. Again, if you can't see it at 0.25x speed (while pausing and playing), then I win the debate.

Also, in the Predator scene (at 0.25x speed, pausing and playing), we see the UP begin to turn before the plasma reaches him. The trajectory of the shot clearly targets his left pectoral to deltoid area, meaning it wouldn't have missed him. Regardless, the fact that the UP moves before the plasma reaches him proves his reaction speed.

The UP can tear off arms or head and destroy it with the Plasma Caster.

Originally posted by h1a8
I already asked you to repost your argument so that I can address it. I clearly missed it.

Why would I repost it when you can go back and find it yourself, you lazy prick?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Why would I repost it when you can go back and find it yourself, you lazy prick?

Originally posted by h1a8
The bolt is clearly visible onscreen. If it weren't, then why would you assume the Predator's bolt is slower if you can't see it?

precisely because we CAN see the predators shot, genius.

Originally posted by h1a8
In the Terminator scene, if you play it at 0.25x speed (pausing and playing to slow it down further), you can clearly see the bolt being emitted and released from her arm in the first scene. If you can't, then you should get your eyes checked - because that means I win this debate.

We see light emitting throughout the charge up sequence, but not the bolt itself once ejected. And no, it can also mean you are lying through your teeth.

Originally posted by h1a8
In the next cut, we see the moment before it connects with Arnold, followed by the moment it actually connects. Again, if you can't see it at 0.25x speed (while pausing and playing), then I win the debate.

You can do screen captures, do the leg work and make your case.

Originally posted by h1a8
Also, in the Predator scene (at 0.25x speed, pausing and playing), we see the UP begin to turn before the plasma reaches him. The trajectory of the shot clearly targets his left pectoral to deltoid area, meaning it wouldn't have missed him. Regardless, the fact that the UP moves before the plasma reaches him proves his reaction speed.

The UP can tear off arms or head and destroy it with the Plasma Caster.

No, this time you're straight up lying.

I do not know what crack you're smoking, but the very best you're gonna get out of this is that it's eyes can track it. But it never moved it's shoulder anywhere near enough to be considered a dodge, and I was completley fair in saying the predator's shot went wide. You cannot deny this, it's physical frame by frame f@cking proof.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
precisely because we CAN see the predators shot, genius.

We see light emitting throughout the charge up sequence, but not the bolt itself once ejected. And no, it can also mean you are lying through your teeth.

You can do screen captures, do the leg work and make your case.

No, this time you're straight up lying.

I do not know what crack you're smoking, but the very best you're gonna get out of this is that it's eyes can track it. But it never moved it's shoulder anywhere near enough to be considered a dodge, and I was completley fair in saying the predator's shot went wide. You cannot deny this, it's physical frame by frame f@cking proof.

You see the beginning/front of the beam emerging, then in the next cut, it's visible in the air, and finally, you see it strike Arnold. Therefore, its speed can be estimated.

It's fully facing the Predator. Notice that its deltoid is aligned with the bottom left corner of the window in the background.

It rotates its torso ever so slightly.

The shot is seen heading toward its pectoral-deltoid area.

It has completed a 45-degree torso rotation from the first image. The shot is now right next to its deltoid, which is significantly farther from the bottom left corner of the window.

You can agree to disagree on whether the shot would have struck his pectoral/deltoid area (though you might need your eyes/brain checked). However, that's irrelevant since you can't deny that he was already moving in relation to the shot before it reached him.

Lmao at you claiming the exact opposite of what's shown while calling it "f@cking proof."

Jesus Christ can you crop your images instead of massively deforming the forum page?

Anyway, no the shot went wide, you can see it on the images. Even if the UP hadn't moved at all, it woudln't have even grazed him. And even if we are given to accept that it was, why the hell would the predator aim for the UP's left shoulder and nowhere else, with computer assisted aim? It literally makes no sense.

Also, just as an FYI, your own images completely tank your argument about the predator's shot being in any way faster than that of the T-X. Your calculation tries to up-jump the speed based on the distance between the Predator and the building, but we see that in the same amount of frames here both projectiles covered similar distance, the distance between the Predator and the UP compared to the distance between the T-X and the Terminator.

He could also have aim-dodged, not actually dodged the plasma. Two different things.

Just before the Predator fires at the UP, we see the shoulder cannon preparing to fire. And the UP focussing on it (see the subwindow in the top left hand corner).

He sees the plasma caster, sees the barrell pointing a certain way, and moved out of the way. Nothing more.