Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. He grabbed Spider-Man in one scene and batted him away in another.But that's irrelevant. Why?
Because the tentacles have impressive perception and reaction feats.
Because neither the tentacles nor Dr. Ock would intentionally allow the Sentinel to get within striking range.
They weren't at full extension in those scenes, unless you can show this?
Your entire argument is predicated on Doc Ock fighting with his tentacles at full extension, keeping squiddie away. That Squiddie in turn wouldn't use it's laser, because that's not how it fights.
So Doc needs to be shown fighting the way you argue.
Originally posted by h1a8
The Sentinels never used their lasers in direct combat - only for breaching barriers. The Matrix Revolutions shows how they actually fight.
Why would squiddy not simply view the tentacles as obstacles between it and its target, and cut through them? Plenty of footage of them doing that. Seems like you're scripting a "battle mode" into squiddy which negates it's cutting tools.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
Why would squiddy not simply view the tentacles as obstacles between it and its target, and cut through them? Plenty of footage of them doing that. Seems like you're scripting a "battle mode" into squiddy which negates it's cutting tools.
I see Doc Ock using his tentacles as melee weapons to swat and batter, and I can easily see them tearing a Sentinel in half before it even has a chance to react with a laser to cut free. However, I fully agree that the Sentinel would win effortlessly if it immediately targeted Doc Ock’s human parts with its lasers from a distance.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They weren't at full extension in those scenes, unless you can show this?Your entire argument is predicated on Doc Ock fighting with his tentacles at full extension, keeping squiddie away. That Squiddie in turn wouldn't use it's laser, because that's not how it fights.
So Doc needs to be shown fighting the way you argue.
The argument is about choice, right? If so, neither Doc Ock nor his tentacles would intentionally allow the Sentinel to come within striking distance. If it does, it wouldn't be because he or his tentacles chose to let it happen.
You could argue that the Sentinel moves and attacks faster than Doc Ock or his tentacles can react to, but you can't argue that they would deliberately allow it to get close enough to strike his flesh.
Originally posted by h1a8
If Doc Ock was just holding it and letting time pass then I see them using their lasers to try to cut free. Imo, the tentacles are significantly stronger than solid steel. We have no reliable way to determine whether the lasers can even cut through the tentacles.I see Doc Ock using his tentacles as melee weapons to swat and batter, and I can easily see them tearing a Sentinel in half before it even has a chance to react with a laser to cut free. However, I fully agree that the Sentinel would win effortlessly if it immediately targeted Doc Ock’s human parts with its lasers from a distance.
The argument is about choice, right? If so, neither Doc Ock nor his tentacles would intentionally allow the Sentinel to come within striking distance. If it does, it wouldn't be because he or his tentacles chose to let it happen.
You could argue that the Sentinel moves and attacks faster than Doc Ock or his tentacles can react to, but you can't argue that they would deliberately allow it to get close enough to strike his flesh.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why not? Doc seems the kind to want to fight up close. Every fight he has had, he does so (against Goblin, against both Spideys). If you want to argue he fights in this keep away, long distance manner, trying to take advantage of his longer tentacles, then you need to prove this.
It never appeared that he intentionally allowed his opponent to get within striking range. If they managed to close the distance, there was no indication that he permitted it on purpose.
You're creating a strawman by calling it "playing keep away." If I have a longer reach and throw a punch before you can get close enough to hit me, how is that playing "keep away"? If you do get within reach, it was never my intention.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
Oh no please, not the "scifi metal of infinite durability" play. This is what ruins every debate involving transformers btw.
I take this back. I didn't realize doc's tentacles were titanium steel alloy, so it's not scifi metal. Still, no proof seems to exist that squiddy can cut that with it's laser, because I only recall seeing it tear through raw steel.
Maybe there is a feat hidden in the battle scenes from the 2nd or 3rd act, but I'm not sitting through all that shit again
Originally posted by h1a8
It never appeared that he intentionally allowed his opponent to get within striking range. If they managed to close the distance, there was no indication that he permitted it on purpose.You're creating a strawman by calling it "playing keep away." If I have a longer reach and throw a punch before you can get close enough to hit me, how is that playing "keep away"? If you do get within reach, it was never my intention.
It was so he could gloat and talk in their faces, to see them up close (as seen with Peter,as seen with random guards).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was so he could gloat and talk in their faces, to see them up close (as seen with Peter,as seen with random guards).
Show the scene where Spider-Man actively tries to attack Doc Ock, and Doc deliberately allows him to get within striking range just to gloat and talk - despite being able to do so from a distance.
Now consider:
1. Doc Ock was previously shown actively attacking Spider-Man from a distance, without allowing Spider-Man to come within striking range first.
2. The Sentinel is a machine. It's unreasonable to assume he or his tentacles would allow it within striking range just to talk.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not unreasonable that he, a man of science, wishes to take a closer look at this new lifeform (for all he knows) that he has never seen before.
Originally posted by h1a8
Correct!
Not reasonable knowing that it's trying to kill him and that this is a forum fight.
Remember all combatants know they are in a fight.
In that case, the Matrix (which is the ultimate brain of the Squiddie) controls the Squiddie and gives the programming to use its long range laser.
Thanks for spotting that.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
Too late to edit: no wait, I was wrong. they were operating autonomously because they didn't stand down until they received the signal to do so. Not sure if there is proof that they can be operated remotely by the matrix
I set my light to turn on at 7pm. It doesn't turn off until I give it the command to turn off at 9pm.
That doesn't mean my light is autonomous.
There's nothing I recall to prove that they were more than just basic commands. hunt objective/stand down/return home/etc. there's nothing to prove that the matrix can be like "hey squiddie: use your cutting tool as an improvised weapon"
With that said, doc would logically be grappling with squiddie, thus trapping it. I see no reason to doubt that squiddie would cut it's way out of a trap, and be able to analyze doc's tentacles to hit them where they're weak. I also see no reason to believe that squiddle could never cut titanium steel alloy, even though it can cut raw steel like butter.
....this is why I don't endulge too much in this subforum. Too often the logical winner loses because of technicality
To be honest, I see Doc Ock winning this. I see the Sentinels more as ants or drones, that are basic in their ways, and are mostly powerful when with many. They go for the frontal assault, not using much of a strategy. A single one could therefore be besten by an intelligence such as the Doc, as the Sentinel will most likely go for a straight forward attack.