Dr. Octopus vs Sentinel (Matrix)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In that case, the Matrix (which is the ultimate brain of the Squiddie) controls the Squiddie and gives the programming to use its long range laser.

Thanks for spotting that.

sentinels can act independently, but they still receive their primary orders from "important" matrix figureheads like agents and dues ex machina. but that shouldn't matter here, because the sentinel should still go into this in this battle with a single directive: to kill doc ock through any means necessary.

so like i said before- the sentinel just throws a tow bomb when the battle starts. sentinel wins. 🙂

I'm disagreeing with everyone here

@h1a8: the matrix is not just software. It is both the program and the sentient entity (hardware included). Proof: In part 3 we literally see the matrix physically plugging neo into the matrix. They're not one and the same

@deadpool: they do a lot of synchronized swarming, slicing/dicing, and laser cutting their way from point A to point B, but I don't recall them showing any problem solving skills. I think squiddie might be too dumb to win, even though it's better equipped

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
@deadpool: they do a lot of synchronized swarming, slicing/dicing, and laser cutting their way from point A to point B, but I don't recall them showing any problem solving skills. I think squiddie might be too dumb to win, though it's better equipped

which is literally all that's needed here.

Oh ok I misunderstood that part. Didn't know that bomb droid thing was called a "tow bomb". TIL

Are they standard equipment for squiddie? Because if not they probably count as a separate droid

they definitely seem to be standard equipment, as the sentinels used them a few different times- twice in the movies, and again in enter the matrix (which is 100% canon to the movies). once launched from the sentinel, the tow bombs independently lock onto and track the target until they collide and go boom. it's the same type of main weaponry used to defend machine city as well-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGTSuo9cIDI

so the sentinel just needs to stay out of range (which shouldn't be hard, since they can fly and doc can't). then all it needs to do is throw a tow bomb and it's game over. all this laser talk is totally irrelevant tbh.

I doubt it would throw a bomb at a human. They didn't throw a single bomb in the invasion of Zion.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
I doubt it would throw a bomb at a human. They didn't throw a single bomb in the invasion of Zion.

That's a good point. They could have won the war pretty quickly if each was able to deploy a tow bomb.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I'm disagreeing with everyone here

@h1a8: the matrix is not just software. It is both the program and the sentient entity (hardware included). Proof: In part 3 we literally see the matrix physically plugging neo into the matrix. They're not one and the same

@deadpool: they do a lot of synchronized swarming, slicing/dicing, and laser cutting their way from point A to point B, but I don't recall them showing any problem solving skills. I think squiddie might be too dumb to win, even though it's better equipped

That was the architect, another program.
Remember that Neo made a deal with him earlier?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
and throwing tow bombs at its designated target-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsmIzy6Qw7o&t=22s

which is literally all that's needed here.

They used them against distant ships, not against humanoid characters in close range. In combat with humanoid opponents, they don't rely on bombs or lasers. They won't choose to fly far away from Doc Ock just to throw a bomb at him—that’s what you would do if you were controlling them.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
they definitely seem to be standard equipment, as the sentinels used them a few different times- twice in the movies, and again in enter the matrix (which is 100% canon to the movies). once launched from the sentinel, the tow bombs independently lock onto and track the target until they collide and go boom. it's the same type of main weaponry used to defend machine city as well-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGTSuo9cIDI

so the sentinel just needs to stay out of range (which shouldn't be hard, since they can fly and doc can't). then all it needs to do is throw a tow bomb and it's game over. all this laser talk is totally irrelevant tbh.

Video games can't be used - only movies and shows.

Originally posted by h1a8
They used them against distant ships, not against humanoid characters in close range. In combat with humanoid opponents, they don't rely on bombs or lasers. They won't choose to fly far away from Doc Ock just to throw a bomb at him that's what you would do if you were controlling them.

and the sentinels used tow bombs from long range because they were intentionally staying clear of the ship's emp radius. would be ridiculous to think they couldn't still be deployed from closer range.

zero reason to think a battleboard sentinel wouldn't deploy a tow bomb if it were given basic knowledge of doc ock and a "kill him" directive.

Originally posted by h1a8
Video games can't be used - only movies and shows.

but that doesn't matter regardless, since sentinels used tow bombs multiple times in the movies anyway. valid tactic no matter what.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
the ships were targeted exactly because humans were on them. sentinels don't have some vendetta against ships specifically lol, it's the humans they were after. several birds with one stone kind of thing.

and the sentinels used tow bombs from long range because they were intentionally staying clear of the ship's emp radius. would be ridiculous to think they couldn't still be deployed from closer range.

zero reason to think a battleboard sentinel wouldn't deploy a tow bomb if it were given basic knowledge of doc ock and a "kill him" directive.

that's archaic and illogical tho. enter the matrix is just as canon as the actual movies. same with animatrix and the matrix webcomics. everything that happened in them is canon to the matrixverse, period. it is absolutely usable.

but that doesn't matter regardless, since sentinels used tow bombs multiple times in the movies anyway. valid tactic no matter what.

The Sentinels have fought numerous humanoid beings and never used bombs. Even after many were destroyed, they still refrained from employing bombs, reserving them for ships. It's a stretch to assume a Sentinel would choose to throw a bomb at the start of a fight - that sounds more like a "you"-controlled Sentinel.

Additionally, my statement about Enter the Matrix referred to the forum rules, not the game's canonicity.

To be honest, the game isn't canon, regardless of what anyone claims, due to its multiple outcomes that contradict the movies. These contradictions arise from the player's choices, implying an alternate reality rather than canonical events.

@h1a8: "That was the architect, another program.
Remember that Neo made a deal with him earlier?"

maybe we're on some tangent now but actually agreeing. lets see:

The interweb says that the big matrix boss at the end of part 3 was called "Deus ex Machina". Maybe it was just another manifestation of the architect? Either way, i think we can agree that it was a sentient entity who was clearly in control of those (mini-sentinals?) that were swarming around neo. That scene definitely involved full remote control of other machines.
(of course that doesnt prove that the other sentinels were remote operated, only that it's not impossible)

The programs exist within the Matrix. Deus Ex Machina is far above that. Its an AI that exists outside of the Matrix and must be created it.

Originally posted by h1a8
The Sentinels have fought numerous humanoid beings and never used bombs. Even after many were destroyed, they still refrained from employing bombs, reserving them for ships. It's a stretch to assume a Sentinel would choose to throw a bomb at the start of a fight - that sounds more like a "you"-controlled Sentinel.

it's cool. if you need to gimp the sentinel to give ock a shot here then go for it. 😂

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
@h1a8: "That was the architect, another program.
Remember that Neo made a deal with him earlier?"

maybe we're on some tangent now but actually agreeing. lets see:

The interweb says that the big matrix boss at the end of part 3 was called "Deus ex Machina". Maybe it was just another manifestation of the architect? Either way, i think we can agree that it was a sentient entity who was clearly in control of those (mini-sentinals?) that were swarming around neo. That scene definitely involved full remote control of other machines.
(of course that doesnt prove that the other sentinels were remote operated, only that it's not impossible)

It only threw tow bombs at ships, not a single time during the invasion of Zion. You don't use a tank or jet either to bomb a single soldier. Its anti-vehicle weaponry.

lmao give me a break. characters getting gimped by the plot, or not fighting to the best of their ability, or randomly doing the dumbest thing possible are common tropes in cinema. happens all the time. indeed we know that tow bombs are standard equipment for sentinels because they deployed them a few different times in the movies. but if the sentinels had used tow bombs during the battle of zion it wouldn't have been a battle at all, it would have been an absolute one sided massacre. no buildup. no suspense. no last minute comeback. nothing. the sentinel horde would have basically just busted in and nuked zion for the easy win. but obviously that can't happen in the actual movie, because the heroes still need to win in the end.

hell if the machines wouldn't have been neutered by the plot, they could have just sent in one or two machine ambassadors who could have vaporized zion even easier-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00TD4bXMoYw&t=2m30s
an entire machine army was never actually needed tbh, but plot restrictions and stupidity will always exist in fiction.

so it's a good thing this is a battleboard setting where the stupidity of a film's plot doesn't apply to the fanmade battles we discuss. 🙂

i assume that each fighter goes into this with basic knowledge of their opponent right? i assume that each fighter goes into this with the directive to kill their opponent right? so then explain to me why a sentinel (hyper advanced machine ai) wouldn't use the most efficient means at its disposal to accomplish its primary goal, and just throw a f*cking tow bomb ftw? that literally sounds exactly like how a machine WOULD think tbh. efficiency.

it's like giving a shoulder cannon to a predator, and then acting shocked when someone mentions them firing it in a forum battle lol.

So you are to decide how characters act, instead of the movie?

When unconstrained by plot device, yes.

We are being efficient. Like a machine. No drawn out heroic battles here where the humans can get into their APCs and nobly sacrifice themselves in a blaze of glory.

This subforum is much less frustrating if you give up arguing like a lawyer, fighting for one side, and instead debate like a philosopher, only concerned with the truth, even if it contradicts your first guess

Oh right I forgot my point: Squiddie has the tools but he doesn't have the proven talent. No evidence of problem solving and improvisation skills.