Dr. Octopus vs Sentinel (Matrix)

Originally posted by h1a8
If multiple simple ways exist to defeat an opponent, you can't just pick the one you prefer if it contradicts the movies.

Sentinels have been shown to efficiently kill humans with their tentacles, as seen during the invasion of Zion. While a bomb or laser could also be effective, it might not be the smartest option since they both use more energy and the bomb endangers them. Your argument assumes they would always fly away from Otto at the start of the fight (to be safe from the bomb effects) and then throw bombs, which is an unreasonable expectation for how they engage humanoid combatants.

The evidence suggests they are actually that limited in intelligence, as they never once used lasers or bombs against individual targets, even when hundreds were being destroyed by machine guns. They aren't independent thinkers - they are machines following a programmed directive. It makes sense that they use bombs to destroy ships from a distance while relying on their tentacles to eliminate humanoid targets up close. This is also efficient from an energy usage viewpoint.

My stance is that if a character performs an action at least once, but has many contradictory low showings, I prioritize that one instance over the weaker ones. For example, if a Sentinel had been shown using a bomb or laser from a distance on a humanoid even once - despite 100 instances where they didn't, even while being massacred for hours - I would favor that single showing. However, we don't even have that one instance here. Their programming dictates their behavior, and they have only ever used bombs against ships from a distance and lasers to cut through hulls. Again, they are not individuals making tactical choices - they follow a set program.

the very fact that sentinels DO have tow bombs as standard equipment, but didn't use them at all during the battle of zion tells you just how much they, like so many other characters in cinema, were gimped for the sake of the plot....but thankfully that's not something we have to factor in with versus battles. plot based dipshittery doesn't apply here. 🙂

like i said earlier- if plot stupidity wouldn't have been a factor, the machines could have just sent one or two machine ambassadors into zion, and just had them nuke the entire damn thing in one fell swoop (like they did to the UN in animatrix). but of course that can't actually happen IN the movie, because neo would have never transitioned into digital jesus and saved humanity if it did.

but at the end of the day, sentinels have tow bombs (which they have deployed multiple times on screen). they have basic knowledge about ock and his abilities. they have a directive to kill him. assuming they wouldn't deploy a tow bomb for a fast and efficient victory is nonsense tbh. even if you want to argue that tow bombs "only" lock onto metallic targets or whateverthef*ck, that still obviously wouldn't be a problem because-
https://postimg.cc/R61FXCgj

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Anyways, I did what I came in this thread to do, and explained about the TOW bombs, that was my primary reason for coming into this thread 😛

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
no offense, but you didn't really mention anything new tbh.

It's far more than calling it PIS, which is not helpful to your case in the least. If you want to insist that what you are proposing is in any way a valid and available tactic for the Sentinel, you have to prove it with he evidence we have, and not by trying to force it through by act of artificial competence donated by yourself.

Simply stating "It's what I'd do!" is not enough. We have the benefits of hindsight for one thing, and two, as we are humans who can think outside the bounds of programming and logic, we would be able to consider that as a viable tactic. The Sentinels would not, because they are not designed and programmed to consider using a weapon outside it's designated purpose. If they did, they'd be more inclined to go for saturation bombardment. Why throw just one TOW bomb to destroy a target they can't detect at range? Would it not be more sufficient to throw 10? Or a hundred? Hell they even tried that later when Neo and Trinity approached 01's defense line, and the defense armada opened up with an entire bombardment of TOW bombs fired from tube launchers by the hundreds to take them down. And even that failed to do what your suggesting, because Trinity died due to secondary environmental hazard, and Neo survived to go on to speak to Deus Ex Machina.

In other words, this entire tangent not only serves you no purpose other than to argue in circles about an ultimately irrelevant tactic, your argument has no legs to stand on in any way beyond you wanting us to accept that you were right. So, instead of trying to force people to side with you, try discussing a tactic for the Sentinels that could yield a victory that doesn't defy logic, and the evidence we do have?

I'm sorry if this looks like I'm trying to pick a fight, in all honesty, I'm not, but being told I contributed nothing new to the thread when clearly explaining the function and purpose of the very thing you're arguing about to explain the possibilities of why it wouldn't work like you think it does is not a nothing burger.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hell they even tried that later when Neo and Trinity approached 01's defense line, and the defense armada opened up with an entire bombardment of TOW bombs fired from tube launchers by the hundreds to take them down.

That's a good point.

It shows the machines have the ability to consider launching bombs at humans as a a legit tactic. Multiple bombs, even.

Also, I thought the whole point of the tow bombs was PRECISELY because of the issue that everyone is pointing out here i.e. that they lack the range of their opponent. The EMP would take out a Squiddie long before it could use its laser/tentacles; hence, they use tow bombs.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's a good point.

It shows the machines have the ability to consider launching bombs at humans as a a legit tactic. Multiple bombs, even.

Also, I thought the whole point of the tow bombs was PRECISELY because of the issue that everyone is pointing out here i.e. that they lack the range of their opponent. The EMP would take out a Squiddie long before it could use its laser/tentacles; hence, they use tow bombs.

You missed the very crucial crux of my point. They were still flying a ship when the defense line fired on them.

YouTube video

Again, this proves the TOW bombs were not meant for antipersonnel duties. They were never fired at individual humans, not even once.

For those of you having trouble with the video in forum, a link to the video directly for you here.

So basically the sentinels all carry tow bombs, but only use them to blow up ships *parked ships. I'm not being facetious, just pointing out that the matrix isn't as well written as everyone says.

I think Squiddy loses all the battles because Neo's plot armor gimped him.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You missed the very crucial crux of my point. They were still flying a ship when the defense line fired on them.

YouTube video

Again, this proves the TOW bombs were not meant for antipersonnel duties. They were never fired at individual humans, not even once.

For those of you having trouble with the video in forum, a link to the video directly for you here.

You think they weren't trying to target Neo specifically, and just launch hundreds/thousands of bombs over the entire area everytime a ship approaches?

I saw it as the machines recognising he was a threat, and launching the bombs at a distance to stop him as soon as they could. Neo being Neo, just handwaves them away.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You think they weren't trying to target Neo specifically, and just launch hundreds/thousands of bombs over the entire area everytime a ship approaches?

I saw it as the machines recognising he was a threat, and launching the bombs at a distance to stop him as soon as they could. Neo being Neo, just handwaves them away.

Why the hell would they know Neo was on that ship? The only machine AI that would have had any sort of notion Neo was on his way to 01, was Smith, a literal virus by that point and in no way on speaking terms with any other machine. So yes, that tells me that the machines would launch that many projectiles at an approaching human ship that is coming towards their capital for unknown purposes and no way of detecting who is specifically piloting it, because that's precisely what they did.

Why would we now assume they knew Neo was aboard with no way to prove it? Would they recognize that Neo was aboard after the handwave? Possibly. But if they knew Neo was still alive, especially after the crash and Trinity was dead, and could track him that easily, why would they not have sentinels to the crash site immediately while he was trying to save Trinity, or mourning over her corpse? They had plenty of time to get to him before he reached the Deus Ex. There's no reason to assume that they could detect Neo individually until he was within actual visual range.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Why the hell would they know Neo was on that ship? The only machine AI that would have had any sort of notion Neo was on his way to 01, was Smith, a literal virus by that point and in no way on speaking terms with any other machine. So yes, that tells me that the machines would launch that many projectiles at an approaching human ship that is coming towards their capital for unknown purposes and no way of detecting who is specifically piloting it, because that's precisely what they did.

Why would we now assume they knew Neo was aboard with no way to prove it? Would they recognize that Neo was aboard after the handwave? Possibly. But if they knew Neo was still alive, especially after the crash and Trinity was dead, and could track him that easily, why would they not have sentinels to the crash site immediately while he was trying to save Trinity, or mourning over her corpse? They had plenty of time to get to him before he reached the Deus Ex. There's no reason to assume that they could detect Neo individually until he was within actual visual range.

Why would they do such a thing??

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why would they do such a thing??

When multiple reasonable explanations exist, the most reasonable one (assuming not an opinion) still isn't proof - just evidence to consider.

Regardless, it's irrelevant since they were in a ship at the time, which is the core point of the original argument.

Btw why would the Sentinel have knowledge of Doc?