This is not comic book Thanos (a low-tier cosmic entity) vs comic book Apoc (an immortal Uber shapeshifter). MCU Thanos is AT BEST a Flying Brick which isn't going to do jack shit against Fox Apocalypse, who is a teleporting matter-transmutating telekinetic that can either merge Thanos with the dirt he's standing on or literally turn Thanos into a dirt statue or manipulate the dirt to flood all of Thanos 's orifices.
Originally posted by Lestov16
This is not comic book Thanos (a low-tier cosmic entity) vs comic book Apoc (an immortal Uber shapeshifter). MCU Thanos is AT BEST a Flying Brick which isn't going to do jack shit against Fox Apocalypse, who is a teleporting matter-transmutating telekinetic that can either merge Thanos with the dirt he's standing on or literally turn Thanos into a dirt statue or manipulate the dirt to flood all of Thanos 's orifices.
Apoc can't transmute Thanos - assuming he can is committing a no limits fallacy. Trapping him in dirt doesn't accomplish anything; he can break out easily, and that's assuming he just sits there and lets it happen.
Apoc would struggle just to even hurt Thanos.
Thanos could potentially decapitate Apoc or slice him clean in half.
Originally posted by h1a8
Apoc can't transmute Thanos - assuming he can is committing a no limits fallacy. Trapping him in dirt doesn't accomplish anything; he can break out easily, and that's assuming he just sits there and lets it happen.Apoc would struggle just to even hurt Thanos.
Thanos could potentially decapitate Apoc or slice him clean in half.
Why can't Apoc transmute Thanos? When has Thanos shown resistance to matter manipulation? And I didn't say trapping him in the dirt . I said merging him with the dirt aka turning Thanos's biomass into soil, as Apoc converting his victims into their surroundings is his trademark MO in the film and he literally sinks several people into the floor in one scene.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Why can't Apoc transmute Thanos? When has Thanos shown resistance to matter manipulation? And I didn't say trapping him in the dirt . I said [B]merging him with the dirt aka turning Thanos's biomass into soil, as Apoc converting his victims into their surroundings is his trademark MO in the film and he literally sinks several people into the floor in one scene. [/B]
Thanos inherently has resistance to matter transmutation. The standard rule is that the more durable a being or object is, the more resistant it is to matter manipulation.
You need to prove that Apoc can transmute someone as durable as Thanos.
Apoc has never done that - all he did was trap others inside material, as shown at the end of the movie. Even if he does have that ability, it still wouldn't work on Thanos for the reasons stated above.
Show me the onscreen feat or quote that says that Thanos is resistant to matter manipulation. Oh you don't have that and are using some bullshit argument about durability equaling transmutation resistance. Not only is that nonsense, but even if you want to play that game, Apoc transmuted an entire city, which definitely has more combined mass and thus durability than Thanos.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Show me the onscreen feat or quote that says that Thanos is resistant to matter manipulation. Oh you don't have that and are using some bullshit argument about durability equaling transmutation resistance. Not only is that nonsense, but even if you want to play that game, Apoc transmuted an entire city, which definitely has more combined mass and thus durability than Thanos.
It's the status quo: the more durable something is, the harder it is to manipulate its structure. That's not only a scientific fact but also consistently shown throughout comics - examples exist where highly durable objects and beings resist matter manipulation to some degree.
Now, consider the alternative.
If that weren't the case, in the comics, Surfer would just beat anyone - Thanos, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Runner - by simply turning them into a table. But you never see anyone seriously arguing that.
Originally posted by KingD19
Another h1 asspull rule comes to light.
Originally posted by h1a8
It's the status quo: the more durable something is, the harder it is to manipulate its structure. That's not only a scientific fact but also consistently shown throughout comics - examples exist where highly durable objects and beings resist matter manipulation to some degree.Now, consider the alternative.
If that weren't the case, in the comics, Surfer would just beat anyone - Thanos, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Runner - by simply turning them into a table. But you never see anyone seriously arguing that.
Originally posted by Lestov16
👆1. This isn't comics. This is the second time you've been told that.
2. Practically every character you mentioned is either a matter manipulator or cosmic entity.
3. As I stated, even if that rule were true, Apoc has been shown manipulating structures way more durable than Thanos aka an entire Egyptian city, so even by your rules, Thanos is still going to have trouble here
4. Again, you act like Apoc encases people inside of their surroundings rather than literally convert their matter into the elements of their surroundings. Apoc doesn't just trap people in walls. He literally transforms their matter into the wall itself. Thanos has no onscreen defense against this, and you know it
1. If the rule of logic holds true - that a matter manipulator can manipulate anything and anyone without specific resistance feats - then it applies across all mediums. Comics are just one example. Arguing that this isn't comics is irrelevant; we're discussing logic and reasoning, which are universal.
2. It doesn't matter because you don't get to make less logical than mine exceptions to your rules about resistance to matter manipulation. More durable beings are inherently more resistant than less durable ones unless stated or shown otherwise. That's the standard. Assuming that a being who can manipulate paper can also manipulate a nearly indestructible material is absurd.
3. Thanos is vastly more durable than the pyramids, many times over. The pyramids are just sand and stone - it's not even close. A fighter jet could demolish a pyramid with ease, but it wouldn't leave a scratch on Thanos.
4. The movie contradicts your argument at the end. Re-watch the scene where Apocalypse dies. Regardless, Apocalypse wouldn't be able to manipulate Thanos in the first place.
Originally posted by RobtardWell Mantis has better feats than both Xavier and Apoc, so proves nothing.
With a thought Apoc could sink Thanos into the ground to his neck and then mind-rape him. Thanos' mind couldn't resist Mantis, while Apoc's telepathy surpasses Xavier's.
And still she couldn't keep it for long and by her words " He's too strong". I don't see Apoc overcoming Thanos' mind imo.
Originally posted by Lestov16Ah a no limit fallacy.
Why can't Apoc transmute Thanos? When has Thanos shown resistance to matter manipulation? And I didn't say trapping him in the dirt . I said [B]merging him with the dirt aka turning Thanos's biomass into soil, as Apoc converting his victims into their surroundings is his trademark MO in the film and he literally sinks several people into the floor in one scene. [/B]
Originally posted by 9jaboy
And Thanos got out of Mantis control which is better. Same Mantis who was powerful enough to put celestial Ego to sleep.
Ego willingly wanted to sleep though so is that really a good feat? *shrug*
She also has to have physical touch for her powers to work and they target the persons emotional state. Thats why she struggled with Thanos. He was determined to obtain the gems for his purpose with nothing else.
Originally posted by tkitna
He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here?
That doesn't prove he can control someone's mind; it only proves he has resistance or defense against mind control.
Originally posted by tkitna
Ego willingly wanted to sleep though so is that really a good feat? *shrug*
She also has to have physical touch for her powers to work and they target the persons emotional state. Thats why she struggled with Thanos. He was determined to obtain the gems for his purpose with nothing else.
Ego didn't consent to being put to sleep.
The need for her to physically touch her target doesn't logically prove that her influence is weaker than someone who can affect their target from a distance.
Originally posted by h1a8
He was completely statued at the start. Quicksilver hit him a billion times before his perception speed adapted to Quicksilver's level. Then, in every other scene in the movie, he operated with normal human-level perception (before and after that scene).
It's here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceiSpZO-nRc
His eyes shift, but he never moves at QS speed. He uses TK or Matter manipulation to trip QS up. Doesn't even move a hand.
Originally posted by tkitna
He beat Xavier in a psychic duel. I mean, what more do you want here?
Doesnt mean he can control people telepathically. It does mean he is powerful enough mentally to defeat a strong telepath in a fight between minds. Could well be a passive power, not an offensive capability. He does have some form of mentally influencing people when he turns them into horsemen with his tech.