Hal and WW vs Superman

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I was drawing you out, seeing how long it takes you to revert lol.

So you don't think PIS happens in fights? You still think character statements hold weight (my initial point)?

Because we now have a contradiction, no? Rogol = Superman (as per statements, which you were using). Rogol thrashes Zod, which means Rogol > Zod, which means Superman is > Zod....

But Rogol thrashes Superman, so Rogol is >> Superman...but according to Superman, Rogol is = Superman!!

So which am I right on? Statements are trash? Or PIS happens?

What statement did I use? Superman during that same sentence said he can not beat Zaar, at all. This doesnt help your argument and again, Zod yet again did better than Superman and didnt get koed twice. Heck, at one point he was wailing on Zaar.

No, Zaar doesnt equal Superman. He treated Superman like fodder and Superman himself admitted he cant win.

Doesn't look like equals to me...

Carv is trying to apply ABC transitive logic:
Superman = Zod
Zod < WW (or Hal)
Therefore Superman < WW (or Hal).

Originally posted by h1a8
You're taking me out of context and completely misunderstanding the exchange between me and Carv. I'm well aware that Superman has lost in a comic. Carv asked me to rank a holding back Superman compared to Zod, and I gave him two reasons why that's not possible.

Originally posted by h1a8
The second reason - the one you're responding to - is essentially pointing out that Superman may start the fight holding back but can progressively hold back less and less to avoid defeat. That means his rating shifts throughout the fight. Variable levels of holding back are not the same as assigning a specific, fixed level of restraint.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm more than willing to have a discussion with you without any insults. I'm a reasonable person, more than my past self, and misunderstandings happen - after all, we're only human.

But you're going to have to do some heavy-lifting to convince me that Superman is supremely unique when he holds back as opposed to any other superhero.

Originally posted by carver9
Wait, didn't Zaar one punched koed Superman twice in one fight, blitzed him and almost killed him while Superman had help?

https://ibb.co/bMPY5c86
https://ibb.co/WpKtCX9N
https://ibb.co/1JL173Rb
https://ibb.co/vCtWP2n4
https://ibb.co/QFSbBjyv
https://ibb.co/J1nXVSf
https://ibb.co/mrKwSfcQ
https://ibb.co/W4N5NYsR
https://ibb.co/v0XR1GP
https://ibb.co/W4c7pkMK

Lmmfao... Zod actually did FAR better againsg Zaar than Superman did.

Originally posted by carver9
Doesn't look like equals to me...

Originally posted by carver9
What statement did I use? Superman during that same sentence said he can not beat Zaar, at all. This doesnt help your argument and again, Zod yet again did better than Superman and didnt get koed twice. Heck, at one point he was wailing on Zaar.

No, Zaar doesnt equal Superman. He treated Superman like fodder and Superman himself admitted he cant win.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Where's the one punch KO Carver? I thought we were using statements from Superman? Now we are not?

He's koed twice in this fight,

Here's one of the times...

https://ibb.co/bMPY5c86

What statement did I use?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman said he was equal to Zaar. It must be the truth.

Superman said he can't beat Zaar. That is true as well. Zaar treated him like fodder. Superman didn't even land a lick.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's using a sword Carver, it's easy to miss for someone like you.

So anyone with a sword can beat Superman?

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman has a very long history of starting low and then finding out what level his opponent can take and slowly taking it up to that level. He does this because he’s fine with absorbing shots if need be. But he doesn’t have to show this restraint on the forum.

So how does this statement of unextraordinary fact disrupt this vs thread? Are you suggesting Hal Jordan and Wonder Woman don't exhibit this quality?

Originally posted by carver9
He's koed twice in this fight,

Here's one of the times...

https://ibb.co/bMPY5c86

What statement did I use?

Originally posted by carver9
Superman said he can't beat Zaar. That is true as well. Zaar treated him like fodder. Superman didn't even land a lick.

How conveniently you missed the part where Superman said Zaar was his equal in strength.

Originally posted by carver9
So anyone with a sword can beat Superman?

Here's Superman vs Rogol Zaar with a whole bunch of phantom zone criminals for a lengthy fight when he didn't have his weapons. Zod folded like a wet noodle against Zaar lol

https://ibb.co/HxXPYr1
https://ibb.co/F3cHGSf
https://ibb.co/fdY1344
https://ibb.co/VNV4Dwv
https://ibb.co/y45cM8J
https://ibb.co/GMd4M1Z
https://ibb.co/J3z13Hr
https://ibb.co/5xcJzwB
https://ibb.co/MS6hb79
https://ibb.co/q1PjJpW
https://ibb.co/jTs9Jky
https://ibb.co/QJ6Xn6h
https://ibb.co/C6MCvPV
https://ibb.co/Ct8svd5

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here's Superman vs Rogol Zaar with a whole bunch of phantom zone criminals for a lengthy fight when he didn't have his weapons. Zod folded like a wet noodle against Zaar lol

https://ibb.co/HxXPYr1
https://ibb.co/F3cHGSf
https://ibb.co/fdY1344
https://ibb.co/VNV4Dwv
https://ibb.co/y45cM8J
https://ibb.co/GMd4M1Z
https://ibb.co/J3z13Hr
https://ibb.co/5xcJzwB
https://ibb.co/MS6hb79
https://ibb.co/q1PjJpW
https://ibb.co/jTs9Jky
https://ibb.co/QJ6Xn6h
https://ibb.co/C6MCvPV
https://ibb.co/Ct8svd5

&#128566;... Zaar caught his punch and one punch koed him again.

Originally posted by ODG
Once again... this is a trait Superman shares with basically every superhero in comics and even a lot of supervillains. Superman is not exceptional in this regard.

So how does this statement of unextraordinary fact disrupt this vs thread? Are you suggesting Hal Jordan and Wonder Woman don't exhibit this quality?

Originally posted by carver9
&#128566;... Zaar caught his punch and one punch koed him again.

Is that what you read from the whole lot of links?

Originally posted by abhilegend
No major character who's not hulk does the holding back schtick as often and on the level of Superman.

If you want to pretend Superman is supremely unique when he holds back as opposed to any other superhero, whatever. I'm more interested in h1a8's position... who I was directly addressing. Given I wasn't addressing you whatsoever. Contain yourself.

Originally posted by ODG
I myself resent when the peanut gallery jumps into the middle of a conversation whilst ignoring context. So go ahead and clarify your underlying position. This is a trait that Superman shares with basically every superhero in published comics. Hell, even with some supervillains. It's a statement of unextraordinary fact that doesn't change the equation of a vs thread. Especially between superheroes. Agreed. 👆

But you're going to have to do some heavy-lifting to convince me that Superman is supremely unique when he holds back as opposed to any other superhero.

I never brought up "holding back" in the first place - Carver was the first to mention it.

I never claimed anything about Superman holding back, nor did I imply that it's significantly different from any other superhero.

Carver is trying to get me to rank a "holding back" Superman with a static number against Zod - for reasons I'm well aware of.

Point number 2 explains that if Superman holds back less later in the fight than he did earlier, then his "level" changes, making a static rating inaccurate.

That said, my view is that all superheroes hold back to the extent of not killing (with some notable exceptions). Superman, like everyone else, will apply the necessary force to knock out his opponent in a forum fight, unless he clearly doesn't know how powerful his opponent is.

Originally posted by h1a8
That said, my view is that all superheroes hold back to the extent of not killing (with some notable exceptions). Superman, like everyone else, will apply the necessary force to knock out his opponent in a forum fight, unless he clearly doesn't know how powerful his opponent is.

Originally posted by ODG
I didn't mention Hulk. And how many double negatives could you fit into a single moronic post?

If you want to pretend Superman is supremely unique when he holds back as opposed to any other superhero, whatever. I'm more interested in h1a8's position... who I was directly addressing. Given I wasn't addressing you whatsoever. Contain yourself.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don’t care who you're addressing. Superman IS unique among major characters, he can actually depower himself completely to the point of being powerless if his mind is messed up and his strength reaches a different level altogether when not holding back.

Superman "depowering" himself due to mental trauma is not exclusive to him. It's arguably a tired comic trope.

Read more comics maybe. 👆