Storm vs. Invisible Woman

Originally posted by h1a8
It wasn't an explosion - it was an AOE heat attack. We see the cold barrier already up before the attack, and residual ice afterward. Cold can counter heat, but it doesn't stop a sharp psionic construct being driven into Storm with astronomical force.

"SZZZZLE" is the sound of air or something melting. She created a thermal wind barrier, not a true force field. Or are we just arguing semantics?

That's not a true quick draw by definition, but debating semantics is pointless.

Since we both agree that Sue gets her shield up before Storm can attack, then we're also agreeing that Sue wins.

SZZZZLE could be a lot of sounds. It was a barrier that caused a solid punch to break into shards. That's all that matters.

I never said Sue gets her shield up before Storm attacks. I just said it was a quick draw.

Originally posted by TGATES
Jupiter is not a solid planet so it's all atmosphere, my guy.

Guess you ignored my post where I show scientists have defined what Jupiter's atmosphere is, which gives us the atmospheric pressure. No biggie, here it is again:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, Jovian atmospheric pressure isn't all that. It's actually an incredibly low showing for Thor.

Since the lower boundary of the atmosphere is ill-defined, the pressure level of 10 bars, at an altitude of about 90 km below 1 bar with a temperature of around 340 K, is commonly treated as the base of the troposphere.[3] In scientific literature, the 1 bar pressure level is usually chosen as a zero point for altitudes—a "surface" of Jupiter.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter

That's high, sure - 145PSI - but nothing that Sue hasn't faced before.

So 'Jovian pressure' = 10 bar at most.

Mere punches are still not the same.

Sue would be defending herself from being turned into potted meat.

Against 10 bar max of pressure? Sure.

Every square inch of her body.....every square inch of her shield would be taxed, NOT just a localized area.

The energies from an exploded gamma bomb designed specifically to kill heroes such as Hulk, Thor, Thing etc for some time:

Avengers Island, for some time:

The entirety of the Empire State Building, for some time:

So saying 'localised attacks' are all she can defend against, is wrong.

To attempt to attack would be her death sentence.

I honestly don't think she has faced something like that.

Also, you have not proven that Sue's shield blocks Storm's specific form of tk as it has never been defined. Storm is primarily an atmokinetic. Her ability to manipulate weather elements is a specialized and focused manifestation of control over the atmospheric forces, rather than general telekinetic power. Her powers are described as psionic, meaning they are mentally controlled and connected to her emotions. This connection to her mental state might be seen as a broader application of psychokinetic abilities, although not necessarily in the traditional sense of moving solid objects.

She has blocked the Cosmic Cube (so again, not a locaslised attack but energy that warped the entire reality:

She did this for an extended amount of time, too - I think it was about a week.

What I DO know is Sue is affected by physical localized forces on her shield, and it has been broken in the past. This is not a localized force. It's every square inch.

The strength of Sue's force field is tied to her concentration. If Storm could create a sufficiently disorienting attack or find a way to disrupt Sue's focus, the shield could be vulnerable.

While her shields can withstand massive impacts, including those from class 100 strength and even short exposures to the attacks of beings like Galactus or the Mad Celestials, sufficiently powerful attacks, especially if sustained, can eventually break through. In Marvel Two-In-One Vol. 1 #9, a mind-controlled Thor was able to shatter Sue's force field with repeated blows from Mjolnir. Her shields, while strong against most energy types, have been shown to have specific vulnerabilities. For example, a Kree mannequin once dissolved her force field by siphoning its energy.

Furthermore, you are using old outdated information. Sue - and the rest of the FF - canonically grow stronger over time. Now, she could stop a bloodlusted Allfather Thor PLUS bloodlusted members of the Avengers all at once:

And just by-the-by - 'Jovian pressures'? Sue can [u]make black holes from plasma[/b]:

That's far more pressure than mere 'Jovian pressure', even IF we take your highest head canon figures.

Originally posted by TGATES

[B]Fantastic 4 232

This maxed Sue out.

Jupiter doesn't have a solid surface, so its atmospheric pressure varies with depth.

IOW, looks like your scan is PIS, as, like you state (and I agree with), Jupiter has no surface. So the writer does not know what they are writing about. Morever, this KOd Storm:

Near the cloud tops, the pressure is about 0.1 bar.
At a depth of around 75 miles (120 km), the pressure is approximately 320 psi (22 bar). At about 93 miles (150 km) deep, the pressure reaches approximately 480 psi (33 bar). The pressure at Jupiter's center is predicted to be greater than 100 million bars.
1 bar is approximately 14.5 psi

Commercial processes typically liquefy air at pressures between 75 and 150 psig (5.2-10.5 bars).

I don't think Sue can sustain a defense for even a split second at those pressures.

I don't think Storm would even have to mount a secondary attack.

Sue has been shown to be most taxed by short-term physical punches and not the extreme atmospheric conditions that Storm can create on earth. At one time it was hard for her to create these pressures.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao. Cyclops destroys the X-men (incl. Storm, Logan etc):

Truly the toughest X-man.

Storm could instate a reserve so that she can equal the opposition.

Originally posted by Smurph
It wasn't an explosion? The explosion that leveled the Winter Palace and cratered the ground wasn't an explosion?

SZZZZLE could be a lot of sounds. It was a barrier that caused a solid punch to break into shards. That's all that matters.

I never said Sue gets her shield up before Storm attacks. I just said it was a quick draw.

But that's irrelevant - Sue can easily penetrate any cold barrier Storm used to shield herself from that heat-based assault.

To settle this: let's grant Storm every shield, wind barrier, or cold-based defense she's ever shown. Sue can still pierce through them or and create bubbles in her head, making their mention pointless in the context of this fight.

So I concede the semantics: Storm has does have shields, it was an explosion, and this is a quick-draw scenario in which Sue wins the fight.

Storm’s dominance can ensure breathing room. She’s hard to beat.

Originally posted by h1a8
We're once again arguing semantics. Let's call it an explosion - what we call it doesn't matter. The key point is that it was a heat-energy based attack, not a blunt or piercing force strike. Storm countered it with cold, even referencing the Arctic, and we see residual ice after the attack ended.

But that's irrelevant - Sue can easily penetrate any cold barrier Storm used to shield herself from that heat-based assault.

To settle this: let's grant Storm every shield, wind barrier, or cold-based defense she's ever shown. Sue can still pierce through them or and create bubbles in her head, making their mention pointless in the context of this fight.

So I concede the semantics: Storm has does have shields, it was an explosion, and this is a quick-draw scenario in which Sue wins the fight.

And the only reason we're talking about them is because you said she didn't have shields. But we agree it comes down to a quick draw 👆

On the balance of things I'd give Storm best odds in the quick draw. But it's nearly a coin toss and I could be persuaded - Sue does have some good reaction feats (although I disagree with characterizing the laser creation as a speed feat, for reasons I said on page 1).

Originally posted by Smurph
An explosion has physical force to it (as a general rule, and as was very clearly the case there). And Iceman's giant punch was a very obvious blunt attack that broke into pieces against the force field. So you're not wrong in a merely semantic sense, you are (as per) just wrong.

And the only reason we're talking about them is because you said she didn't have shields. But we agree it comes down to a quick draw 👆

On the balance of things I'd give Storm best odds in the quick draw. But it's nearly a coin toss and I could be persuaded - Sue does have some good reaction feats (although I disagree with characterizing the laser creation as a speed feat, for reasons I said on page 1).

You brought up Storm having shields like they actually matter.

I suppose by your logic, any AOE energy attack qualifies as an explosion just because it moves objects.

The sound SZZZZLE isn't what you hear when a solid object hits another solid object - it's the sound of heated air or something melting. Storm created a thermal wind barrier. Sure, it might deflect some blunt force, but it's not a solid construct. When people talk about someone creating shields, they're referring to solid constructs, not barriers made of wind and temperature shifts.

What odds? Sue can get her shield up before Storm can even attack - that's a fact. The fastest quantifiable attack Storm has is her lightning, and even that is too slow.

Comics have referenced Storm's lightning as moving at around 100,000 mph, which is over 6,000 times slower than a laser beam. Sue has multiple feats reacting to lasers - such as simultaneously intercepting 10 separate laser beams mid-flight with multiple small shields.

Originally posted by h1a8
You brought up Storm having shields like they actually matter.

I suppose by your logic, any AOE energy attack qualifies as an explosion just because it moves objects.

The sound SZZZZLE isn't what you hear when a solid object hits another solid object - it's the sound of heated air or something melting. Storm created a thermal wind barrier. Sure, it might deflect some blunt force, but it's not a solid construct. When people talk about someone creating shields, they're referring to solid constructs, not barriers made of wind and temperature shifts.

What odds? Sue can get her shield up before Storm can even attack - that's a fact. The fastest quantifiable attack Storm has is her lightning, and even that is too slow.

Comics have referenced Storm's lightning as moving at around 100,000 mph, which is over 6,000 times slower than a laser beam. Sue has multiple feats reacting to lasers - such as simultaneously intercepting 10 separate laser beams mid-flight with multiple small shields.

The SZZZZLE could just as easily be the sound of the shield itself. You can't hang an argument on a sound effect when, on the page, it's deflecting blunt force and a punch is shattering on impact.

Storm can attack Sue internally just as easily as the reverse. There's no need to attack with something that Sue can dodge.

Originally posted by Smurph
No, you said Storm doesn't have shields and I corrected you. I didn't bring them up.

The SZZZZLE could just as easily be the sound of the shield itself. You can't hang an argument on a sound effect when, on the page, it's deflecting blunt force and a punch is shattering on impact.

Storm can attack Sue internally just as easily as the reverse. There's no need to attack with something that Sue can dodge.

You said this first before I stated that Storm doesn't have shields.

Originally posted by Smurph
And Storm can shield just as quickly, including against sharp force constructs.

I think on the balance of things I'd give Storm the edge in a quick draw but Sue the edge if both have their shields up.

SZZZZLE is the sound of heated air or something melting, not what you'd hear from a solid object striking another solid object. Do you believe the writer is stupid?

Why are you suddenly playing dumb? Wind pressure and heat can easily cause ice to crack or break off. A localized pressure barrier can block an incoming attack just the same. But let's be clear, her "shields" are not solid constructs. They're made of pressurized air and extreme temperature differentials, not solid constructs.
1. Prove that Storm can - and will - activate her powers inside her opponent the moment the bell rings. Show scans of her initiating weather manipulation within someone's body.
2. Prove that she can activate her powers inside force fields that have already blocked both TK and telepathy.