forumcrew and jedi> so, you still haven't explained why or who they (oracle and seraph) are on the run from... if seraph is nothing more than a contigency plan CREATED by the architect to ensure that the One reaches the path, they would have nothing to fear within the Matrix. His purpose would override virtually any other program's purpose inside the Matrix, including those of the Agents. Why then, are they running or hiding?
And another question you still haven't answered is if he was a 'backup' plan, where was he during M1? Shouldn't he have been present there as well? If I recall, the Oracle in M1 only had a preistess type of figure. Pls clarify...
The Agents are not controlled by Archie in that, if they find (oracle or Seraph) he is gonna tell them not to kill them. the Agents believe it is their purpose, whatever, to kill the anomaly and any rebels or rogue programs they encounter...like i have said before, i dont think that the Archie directly controls anything that happens in the matrix, he is almost impotent, just watching, not doing anything...and Seraph wasn't needed in M1 because the Anomaly had not created the anti-anomaly (smith)
i still disagree on the importance of seraph - he's not a contingency, merely a puppet of the Oracle (but you've heard this b4). nevertheless, you do bring up an interesting discussion point jedi.
i agree that all programs within the matrix do what they're programmed to do. after all, this is part of the 'perfect precision' that the Architect was talking about. i'm wondering now though what the Architect would do in a sitaution where both the Oracle and the One were threatened to die by the Agents' hands. Would the Architect stop it from happening knowing full well that the Matrix wouldn't be reloaded? another noodle...
ok seraph is an angel write or wrong if he is "angels look over us to make sure were ok"write wrong he is the eyes of the oracle because she has all those enemys and hes looking over here thus the architect wouldnt lie to the one there is no purpose and he would say either precisly or incorrect write or wrong so i just want to now what yall think
Yohji> well, i actually dont think the Oracle has been around for ever, but im beginning to be changed in that point of view...and the Oracle would never be threatened to die until after the One reaches the Source...it is not her purpose to die until after the ONE chooses to end the cycle...
TH3 0N3>wow...only one thing i can say to that...PUNC-TU-A-TION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jedi> i don't get it: if the Oracle is never threatened to die before the One reaches the source, why is she on the run when she meets Neo in Reloaded? And no, its not just Agent Smith that she's running from... Recall what Seraph said, "The Oracle has many ENEMIES..."
the more i think about who the mother actually is, the more convinced i become that it must be the Oracle. given all we know about the Mother (intuituve program less bound by parameters of perfection, initially created to study human psyche), who fits this profile the best?
Who else in the movies has the most intimate knowledge of ALL the main human rebels and is still a machine? who else is able to predict (or manipulate into self-fulfillment) the future so far? who else displays an uncanny sense of human wisdom despite being a program? who else speaks with emotional detachment (i.e. not ruled by her emotions like Persephone - a critical prerequisite and characteristic of a program created to study the human psyche, like i mentioned in my psychiatrist's analogy), yet still remains 'mother-like' (guiding her 'children' - the rebels, baking cookies, giving candy, calling Neo 'kid', etc.).
one other point that most ppl seem to forget is the fact that the Architect refers to himself as the Father of the Matrix becuase he BUILT it. However, it failed (twice! in fact) before the MOTHER came along with the solution. The implication here is that whomever the Mother is, she is absolutely CRITICAL to the functioning of the Matrix. Without the Oracle, the One would NEVER reach the source, thus the Matrix would never be reloaded and the control would eventually fail. Moreover, the Mother's solution to the problem was to give humans choice. The only character in the movies that provides 'choice' to the humans (in the world shaping events kinda way) is the Oracle (in M1, she tells Neo he must choose to save Morpheus or himself, and in M2 she tells Neo that he must choose to understand his future decision or else Zion will fall). Finally, consider this: who are the only characters in the movies who do NOT have names, but are referenced only by their function and capacity...? the only ones that come to mind are ALL critical to the Matrix... Architect/Oracle/Keymaker = Father/Mother/???
But if you take what your saying you have to take what the Oracle says as the absolute. The truth. Yet she has not ever been completely honest and even Morpheous said "She told you exactly what you needed to hear." Meaning, she's not trying to tell the truth and help you that way, but rather - she's telling you what you need to hear to lead you down the path. Now to do that, she has to help you down the path to find the truth, then you believe what she says and you follow everything else that she says.
Everything that she says should be interpreted, not literally, but as words that are needed to be heard to lead you down the path she wants you to follow.
She is also the only intuitive program we have met, and the Architects disdain when Neo says she's the oracle is only because of the title Neo uses "Oracle." The Architects response is more like "Please! She no more capable of prophecy than you. Her design was to read the chemical precursors leading up to the choice you are about to make and this leads her to know the means in which best to speak to you."
could it be a possibility that the oracle and persephone are working together, to divulge deeper into the human phyce?, for instance, why does persephone kiss everyone if not to get some of their code, to help make a better, more perfected matrix, she then feeds the infromation, or code to the oracle, who anylizes it and gives it to the architect who then works together with the oracle and they make a perfect matrix.
OR CONSIDER THE ALTERNITIVE....
The oracle programmed everyone inside the matrix, the "human beings" are in fact programs, the oracle programmed them all, so she knows exactly how they are going to act, and what they are going to think, arego, she knows hom the world is going to act and therefore can predict the future, which is why when neo calls her an "oracle" the architect laughs, because she is not "fortune teller" only a program that hacks other programs.
Originally posted by spacemnokey108
could it be a possibility that the oracle and persephone are working together, to divulge deeper into the human phyce?, for instance, why does persephone kiss everyone if not to get some of their code, to help make a better, more perfected matrix, she then feeds the infromation, or code to the oracle, who anylizes it and gives it to the architect who then works together with the oracle and they make a perfect matrix.
Where does Peresophone kiss anyone but Neo? And if that were the case, wouldn't a simple kiss do? And how would she be getting any of the code? Plus, there was a perfect version of the matrix -- it was rejected because the need for choice. Also, because, as humans, we define happiness through pain - without the misery there would be nothing to celebrate! It is human nature to question things, just as it is human nature to conform, and to choose the simplest answers (though, Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is usually the right answer). Neo, however, was a portion of the small percentage that questions authority by nature. At a subconsious level, he was given a choice to believe the matrix or not, and he chose not to. So, all his life, he felt something was wrong with the world but did not know what it was. Because that is something that is inheritly human, it cannot be worked around to create a "perfect" matrix.
OR CONSIDER THE ALTERNITIVE....The oracle programmed everyone inside the matrix, the "human beings" are in fact programs, the oracle programmed them all, so she knows exactly how they are going to act, and what they are going to think, arego, she knows hom the world is going to act and therefore can predict the future, which is why when neo calls her an "oracle" the architect laughs, because she is not "fortune teller" only a program that hacks other programs.
IF the Oracle programmed everyone inside the matrix, and they are infact programs, please explain why there would be a need for the matrix in the first place? Then, why would they need to fight each other in such manners, with some believing that they are human? And, most importantly, how would they "wake up" from the matrix into the real world? Also, if the Oracle programmed everything, she programmed the Architect, who stated that HE programmed the matrix. The Oracle wouldn't exist without a matrix though, b/c there would be no need for her. And, as the programmer, she would not need to hack anything!