storm v phoenix who would win

Originally posted by 2damnloud
😂 @ this nonsense.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
:1st point] Wrong. Xavier notes in X-treme 5 that he can barely make TP contact with Storm under NORMAL circumstances.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
:2nd point] wrong. Find an issue where it takes he "like 2 minutes" to conjur a Tornando. How dumb can you be??? The dumbest. 😂

Originally posted by 2damnloud
:And Storm has harnessed millions of suns in Uncanny 165.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
:U lost, now go kill yourself 😆

Storm, like you, has lost. Oh, and your smilies are so COOL! I didn't feel dumb until I saw the smilies.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
It depends really on your point of view .

What Exodus is trying to say is that what Storm performed under the Galactic core can only be replicated in a similar area , because she practically does what she does on earth only that the Galactic core enhances her power sort to speak .

Think of it as Polaris for example . She becomes stronger by drawing power from Earth's Magnetic Field , but there are planets where if she would go she would get even stronger .

I don't really know this to be true.

It's not telling what she could do.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Power is not sustence.

The spiritual and material influx is what caught the brood of gaurd and reversed the tranformation long enough for her to harness the core in it's ENTIRETY, as the scan states.

It's a simple sequence of events.

What you suggest is that Storm has the ability to somehow convert physical matter into spiritual energy. 😱 And here I thought you were a strict proponent of Storm using WEATHER PATTERNS, but now she converts the physical into the spiritual. 😄

The last argument we had on the subject, you concede that she harnessed physical energy, but totally and utterly denied that she even harnessed it in it's entirely, now you argue she harnessed it in it's entirely, but she is somehow such an adept magik user/spiritist/ shaman/ high priestess that she can convert the entire thing into some kind of spiritual energy?? 😂

All of this in a bid to [b]get around the fact that the scan clearly states that it's the power of the entire core, and the implications are too great for you to grasp. 😂

If a differenetion is actally made in the fifth panel, it is NOT being made in the eighth because it simple says "POWER of the the ENTIRE core".

No differentiation is made between spiritual or material and what she is actually harnessing, but the "how much" is actually plainly written out--ENTIRE CORE

I say she harnessed both the spiritual and material value/summation of the entire thing.

The scan clearly supports me since a differentiation is not made when she finally summons it. [/B]

When we last talked about this feat, we both were thinking in terms of the physical composite energy of the Stars. And the only reason I said that interpretation didn't work was because the panel art contradicted the narrative. However a few months a go a friend of mine, who's a Storm fan, pointed out that line where it says "no more actually than she does when she draws energy from the Earth to manipulate the weather " etc...and now it makes a lot of sense. And he also showed me that we're not refering to composite energy...but whatever energy she draws from the Earth to manipulate weather patterns.

According to the scan Storm draws "Energy" from the Earth( Spiritual and Material Sustenance) to shift weather patterns which in turn allow her to manipulate the weather. I don't see what's so hard to comprehend? Why go an convolute things?

Write after it says she "Summons the power of the entire core" it explains how she does this. It also states in the same panel:

"The process is surprisingly simple, no more actually than she does when she draws energy from the Earth to manipulate the weather -- But, in this case, things are magnified to an unimaginable degree."

She's not converting anything physical into spiritual. The Earth the Core they all have a sort of "spiritual force" and Storm shares an empathic link to it. She draws spiritual energy from the Earth in order to manipulate weather patterns. It's that simple.

BTW You've become more and more aggressive in your debating as time passed. Maybe I should put you back on ignore? Anyway...I know there's no reasoning with you so...Tchao...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
When we last talked about this feat, we both were thinking in terms of the physical composite energy of the Stars. And the only reason I said that interpretation didn't work was because the panel art contradicted the narrative. However a few months a go a friend of mine, who's a Storm fan, pointed out that line where it says "no more actually than she does when she draws energy from the Earth to manipulate the weather " etc...and no it makes a lot of sense. And showed me that we're not refering to composite energy...but whatever spiritual energy she draws from the Earth to manipulate weather patterns.

According to the scan Storm draws Spiritual Energy from the Earth( Spiritual and Material Sustenance) to manipulate the weather patterns which allow her to manipulate the weather. I don't see what's so hard to comprehend? Why go an convolute things?

The scan states:

"The process is surprisingly simple, no more actually than she does when she draws energy from the Earth to manipulate the weather -- But, in this case, things are magnified to an unimaginable degree."

She's not converting anything physical into spiritual. The Earth the Core they all have a sort of "spiritual force" and Storm shares an empathic link to it. She draws spiritual energy from the Earth in order to manipulate weather patterns. It's that simple.

Anything but a Star, eh?? 😂

The part about how she manipulates weather on earth was to illustrate how simple it was for her to do it by drawing a comparison to her the familiar part of her powerset(weather manipulation) in the midst of the unusual circumstances of being in space in the middle of the Galactice core.

It was to give it credibility and not actually describe the quanitity or nature of what she was summoning.

The actual qauntity is given for you(Entire core).

Anyway, the narrative didn't actually say what type of energy she draws from the earth to manipulate the weather. It's just says "energy". It's the same with the phrase "power of the entire core".

Power

possession of controlling influence; "the deterrent power of nuclear weapons"; "the power of his love saved her"; "his powerfulness was concealed ...
(physics) the rate of doing work; measured in watts (= joules/second)
ability: possession of the qualities (especially mental qualities) required to do something or get something done; "danger heightened his powers of discrimination"
world power: a state powerful enough to influence events throughout the world
office: (of a government or government official) holding an office means being in power; "being in office already gives a candidate a great advantage"; "during his first year in office"; "during his first year in power"; "the power of the president"
one possessing or exercising power or influence or authority; "the mysterious presence of an evil power"; "may the force be with you"; "the forces of evil"
might: physical strength exponent: a mathematical notation indicating the number of times a quantity is multiplied by itself
baron: a very wealthy or powerful businessman; "an oil baron"
supply the force or power for the functioning of; "The gasoline powers the engines"

I't safe to assme that she harnesed the spritual and material value of the ENTIRE CORE.

No differentiation is made when she summons it.

This one thing is to be sure, it was the entire thing.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Anyway, the narrative didn't actually say what type of energy she draws from the earth to manipulate the weather. It's just says "energy". It's the same with the phrase "power of the entire core".

Glad to see you toned down your aggressive tone.

In the previous scan Storm says:

"This must be the Galactic Core, Millions of suns, crammed into a relatively tiny volume of space -- living stars, living worlds , and from each I draw both spiritual and material sustenance.
That sudden influx of power caught the embryo off-guard and enabled me to reverse the transformation."

She says she draws spiritual and material sustenance from living worlds. Earth is a living World.

On panel art contradicts that that she summoned any composite energy of the stars. The narrative doesn't say anything like that. In fact the narrative says that the sudden influx of power was due to the spiritual and material sustenance she obtained from being inside the core. That's the only type of energy that is mentioned in the entire feat. The second scan goes on to say she summoned the power of the entire core. It follows the first scan by using the same word "Power". As established in the first scan...in this context Power = "spiritual and material sustenance".

It's still a good feat. It just makes a lot more sense.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Glad to see you toned down your aggressive tone.

In the previous scan Storm says:

"This must be the Galactic Core, Millions of suns, crammed into a relatively tiny volume of space -- living stars, living worlds , and from each I draw both spiritual and material sustenance.
That sudden influx of power caught the embryo off-guard and enabled me to reverse the transformation."

She says she draws spiritual and material sustenance from living worlds. Earth is a living World.

On panel art contradicts that that she summoned any composite energy of the stars. The narrative doesn't say anything like that. In fact the narrative says that the sudden influx of power was due to the spiritual and material sustenance she obtained from being inside the core. That's the only type of energy that is mentioned in the entire feat.

It still said she summoned the ENTIRE thing.

It can be both the material and spiritual all it wants to be, but it's STILL the entire thing.

It's no getting aorund that fact.

The narrative also gives what the value is of the Galactic core. Storm states: "This must be the Galactic core. Millions of suns crammed into a a relatively small volume of space- - living stars living worlds, from each I draw both material and spiritual sustenance"

After wards, it states that it is that sudden influx of power that catches the empryo off gaurd.

Storm being the smart perceptive woman she is, realizes that just being that in the midst of the core affords her the ability to reverse transformation(which was the reason she went out into space because she had realized she was infected with the brood and didn't want her firends to see her like that), she realizes that if she summons it's full power, it would kill the brood, which it did. It also destroyed her ship leaving her exposed in space, then the Acanti finds her so forth and so on.

By narrative giving the qauntity "Millions of suns" and "Power of entire". That is your composite right there.

She harnessed the "power of entire core" which is described as "millions of suns"

That is the sequence of events that makes the most sense.

Lest we also not forget that it was recently written that she is powerful enough the house the power of Eternity.😖hifty:

Originally posted by 2damnloud
It still said she summoned the ENTIRE thing.

It can be both the material and spiritual all it wants to be, but it's STILL the entire thing.

It's no getting aorund that fact.

The narrative also gives what the value is of the Galactic core. Storm states: "This must be the Galactic core. [B]Millions of suns crammed into a a relatively small volume of space- - living stars living worlds, from each I draw both material and spiritual sustenance"

After wards, it states that it is that sudden influx of power that catches the empryo off gaurd.

Storm being the smart perceptive woman she is, realizes that just being that in the midst of the core affords her the ability to reverse transformation(which was the reason she went out into space because she had realized she was infected with the brood and didn't want her firends to see her like that), she realizes that if she summons it's full power, it would kill the brood, which it did. It also destroyed her ship leaving her exposed in space, then the Acanti finds her so forth and so on.

By narrative giving the qauntity "Millions of suns" and "Power of entire". That is your composite right there.

She harnessed the "power of entire core" which is described as "millions of suns"

That is the sequence of events that makes the most sense. [/B]

Actually none of what you said contradicts anything I've said. In fact I agree with your sequence of events. Maybe I didn't explain what I meant by composite properly. When I said composite I meant the actual physical energy that we as humans could possibly harness that comprises a Star.

It says:

"Storm summons "power" from the entire core" 😬

The Entire Core is comprised of "living stars, living worlds, and from each I draw both Spiritual and material sustenance".

As I said in my previous post. We are already told what power is in this context. The previous scan says that Power = Spiritual and Material Sustenance which she draws from Living Worlds and Living Stars(Stars = Suns) which make up the Galactic Core. It then goes on to say that the process is simple no more actually than she does when she draws energy from the Earth to manipulate the weather. Earth is a living world which she draws spiritual and material sustenance from.

Maybe that explains it better. Anyway I got to go...football is on. Nice to finally have a civil conversation with you.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Lest we also not forget that it was recently written that she is powerful enough the house the power of Eternity.😖hifty:

Her Spirit is strong enough to house the consciousness of Eternity IRRC. Good feat nonetheless.

This is still a spite thread though 😬

Really need to go. Tchao.

Pyron beats Storm in one shot. 😐

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Actually none of what you said contradicts anything I've said. In fact I agree with your sequence of events. Maybe I didn't explain what I meant by composite properly. When I said composite I meant the actual physical energy that we as humans could possibly harness that comprises a Star.

And why wouldn't she be?

It said " the power of the entire core."

Power, with regard to physics is: (physics) the rate of doing work; measured in watts (= joules/second)

She was physically there doing physical work. The physical enrgy output cannot be denied.

Going by your interpretation this would go under "material" sustenance. The spiritual part is not quantifiable since it's not scientific.

The amount of power /energy is defined in the story as "Millions of suns"

She harnesses the power of the entire thing as stated in the sans.

As I said in my previous post. We are already told what power is in this context. The previous scan says that Power = Spiritual and Material Sustenance which she draws from Living Worlds and Living Stars(Stars = Suns) which make up the Galactic Core. It then goes on to say that the process is simple no more actually than she does when she draws energy from the Earth to manipulate the weather. Earth is a living world which she draws spiritual and material sustenance from.

Maybe that explains it better. Anyway I got to go...football is on. Nice to finally have a civil conversation with you.

No.

We are not told what the power is in the context of panel 8 when she summons it. We are told the affect of said power on her and the brood empryo. It has a sustaining affect on storm and almost "feeds her", whereas it has an adverse affect on the brood. The term sustenance does not indicate the type of power, only what it does to/for storm.

We are however told the amount, which is the entire thing, both spiritual and material(Physical energy) which is defined as millions of suns living worlds etc.

Her Spirit is strong enough to house the consciousness of Eternity IRRC. Good feat nonetheless.

This is still a spite thread though

True, and it dorve mastermind insane.

Her pysche is strong enough to handle universal, infinite awareness.

Never once said "composite energy" in the scans. In the previous page it mentions what type of power she manipulates.

Phoenix wins this, Storm was strong enough to hold the conciousness of eternity, White phoenix of the crown held a universe in her hands with ease.

This really does seem like a spite thread.

Doesn't have to say composite when it states what the core is ("millions of suns"😉 and then ENITRE CORE.

Until we get more showings like that from Storm I'd say Phoenix for the majority.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Doesn't have to say composite when it states what the core is ("millions of suns"😉 and then ENITRE CORE.

Yeah, spiritual energy and material sustenance from the entire core.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Until we get more showings like that from Storm I'd say Phoenix for the majority.

Even if we were to accept that the galactic core feat as you say it is that's still only a galactic feat

Universe>galaxy

Holding a universe in your hands as if it were nothing seems kind multiversal to me.

Multiverse>Universe>galaxy

Phoenix>>Storm (the explination for the two > is above)

And the recent feat from FF is fairly impressive. Howerver Jean holds that level of awareness at all times she's phoenix like it was nothing, and so has no difficulty with it.

it's sick how many people think storm can even stand up to phoenix

she's good and all but your talking about someone on par with big g in power

Originally posted by Creshosk
But it'd take more than within the universe feats to beat out Jean's tampering with something on a multiversal scale.

Phoenix for the win but I have to disagree on the claim,

Jean has never performed a Multiversal feat Cresh.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Holding a universe in your hands as if it were nothing seems kind multiversal to me.

First:
Multiversal feat requires atleast Two UniverseS or more being manupulated simultaneously.

Second:
It wasn't even an entire Universe,
it was a Timeline (a Tiny Reality connected to a whole Universe)

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)
...................................................................................

This Reality was so Tiny, that only X-Men/& X-Men related characters existed on it.

Sublime was a Global plague, (World wide affliction)
and not a single Hero (other than a few X-Men) showed up for the show.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Multiverse>Universe>galaxy

Phoenix is definitely a Universal power, not based on Here Comes Tomorrow,
based on that "What If"
where Phoenix destroyed a a true Alternate Universe. (an Aspect of Eternity)

But as far as Multiversal is concerned,
Phoenix has never performed a single feat on that scale.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Howerver Jean holds that level of awareness at all times she's phoenix like it was nothing, and so has no difficulty with it.

Holding a Timeline is impresssive,
but not nearly as impressive had it been a Whole Universe.

Here's Uatu (a Watcher) doing the same thing:

"There is a noise ...

the sound of a Universe screaming in pain,

the sound of a World dying"

.......................................................................................

The Watcher (Uatu) speaks:

"So it is over, I feel Time reconfigure itself ... Time heals, and is healed,

all will come into existence in its proper Time, one small Possibility has ended,

that everything else may exist"

"If this right, why do I feel so .. empty?"

.......................................................................................

The leader of the High Tribunal of Watchers,
gives Uatu a gift (the 1602 Universe)

The High Tribunal re-created the 1602 Reality,
to allow it to exist as one of 616's Timelines.

Since this Universe is a Timeline, it's a Tiny Universe:

"All is now well. The UniverseS continue"

"The High Tribunal have a gift for you,
We have crafted it from the fringes of Alternity,

It is small, keep it safe"

Uatu says,

"I place the High Tribunal's gift inside me; A Tiny Universe"

.......................................................................................

Now Imo,

Phoenix > Uatu

but as you can see even Uatu can perform this feat.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix for the win but I have to disagree on the claim,

Jean has never performed a Multiversal feat Cresh.

Originally posted by Mr Master
First:
Multiversal feat requires atleast Two UniverseS or more being manupulated simultaneously.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Second:
It wasn't even an entire Universe,
it was a Timeline (a Tiny Reality connected to a whole Universe)

Originally posted by Mr Master
"In ONE Future, [B]Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)[/b]

Originally posted by Mr Master
...................................................................................

This Reality was so Tiny, that only X-Men/& X-Men related characters existed on it.

Universe>galaxy

Jean>universe

Originally posted by Mr Master
Sublime was a Global plague, (World wide affliction)
and not a single Hero (other than a few X-Men) showed up for the show.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix is definitely a Universal power, not based on Here Comes Tomorrow,
based on that "What If"
where Phoenix destroyed a a true Alternate Universe. (an Aspect of Eternity)

But as far as Multiversal is concerned,
Phoenix has never performed a single feat on that scale.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Holding a Timeline is impresssive,
but not nearly as impressive had it been a Whole Universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here's Uatu (a Watcher) doing the same thing:

"There is a noise ...

[B]the sound of a Universe screaming in pain,

the sound of a World dying"

.......................................................................................

The Watcher (Uatu) speaks:

"So it is over, I feel Time reconfigure itself ... Time heals, and is healed,

all will come into existence in its proper Time, one small Possibility has ended,

that everything else may exist"

"If this right, why do I feel so .. empty?"

.......................................................................................

The leader of the High Tribunal of Watchers,
gives Uatu a gift (the 1602 Universe)

The High Tribunal re-created the 1602 Reality,
to allow it to exist as one of 616's Timelines.

Since this Universe is a Timeline, it's a Tiny Universe:

"All is now well. The UniverseS continue"

"The High Tribunal have a gift for you,
We have crafted it from the fringes of Alternity,

It is small, keep it safe"

Uatu says,

"I place the High Tribunal's gift inside me; A Tiny Universe"

.......................................................................................

Now Imo,

Phoenix > Uatu

but as you can see even Uatu can perform this feat. [/B]

And remember back during onslaught where he bascially said that Earth was doomed?

Yeah, retcon's make him look foolish.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Power is not sustence.

The spiritual and material influx is what caught the brood of gaurd and reversed the tranformation long enough for her to harness the core in it's ENTIRETY, as the scan states.

It's a simple sequence of events.

What you suggest is that Storm has the ability to somehow convert physical matter into spiritual energy. 😱 And here I thought you were a strict proponent of Storm using WEATHER PATTERNS, but now she converts the physical into the spiritual. 😄

The last argument we had on the subject, you concede that she harnessed physical energy, but totally and utterly denied that she even harnessed it in it's entirely, now you argue she harnessed it in it's entirely, but she is somehow such an adept magik user/spiritist/ shaman/ high priestess that she can convert the entire thing into some kind of spiritual energy?? 😂

All of this in a bid to [b]get around the fact that the scan clearly states that it's the power of the entire core, and the implications are too great for you to grasp. 😂

If a differenetion is actally made in the fifth panel, it is NOT being made in the eighth because it simple says "POWER of the the ENTIRE core".

No differentiation is made between spiritual or material and what she is actually harnessing, but the "how much" is actually plainly written out--ENTIRE CORE

I say she harnessed both the spiritual and material value/summation of the entire thing.

The scan clearly supports me since a differentiation is not made when she finally summons it. [/B]

Amen! I can't believe Exodus Cloak is still trying to distort what is clearly written in plain english in Uncanny 165. We've corrected him on this for months. Desperation of the highest order on his part.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Amen! I can't believe Exodus Cloak is still trying to distort what is clearly written in plain english in Uncanny 165. We've corrected him on this for months. Desperation of the highest order on his part.

It's also written in plain english what is being refered to... not composite energy as that's not written there. She was manipulating spiritual energy and material sustinance as per her own words.

Any attempt to say it was anything more or less would be "trying to distort what is clearly written in plain english"

And would be "Desperation of the highest order"

Originally posted by Creshosk
Your opinion.

Not my opinion, it's just the facts.

hey if you can post a scan of a Multiversal feat,
or tell me in what issue I can find one,
I'll gladly agree.

But if you're using Phoenix holding a Timeline (which isn't a whole Universe)
as a Multiversal feat,

then I have to disagree.

And I'm by no means trying to change your mind. But only On Panel proof,
and even better if it's accompanied by a corresponding official Handbook bio,
will change mine.

Originally posted by Creshosk
which of course would be impossible for someone holding a universe without any sort of strain...

A Timeline, certified on panel, as we know they are 150 Years in the Future (a 616 Timeline)
and certified in Two Official Handbooks as being such.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It was a universe.

I agree, all Timelines are Tiny (Baby) Universes connected to a Parent (Whole) Universe.

This is why the Phoenix Consciousness said:

"It lost it's Parents when Unity broke out across the Megasystems"

Originally posted by Creshosk
Spin the feat how you want it doesn't change what it was. Just as 2dmanloud wants to play up the galactic core and housing eternity's conciousness you seem to enjoy downplaying phoenix's feats.

I don't think I'm demeaning the feat friend.

I'm just clearing up what happened in truth in Here Comes Tomorrow.

If I were demeaning the Phoenix's feats,
I would demean her truly full blown Universal feat when she destroyed
that Alternate Universe in a What If.

Which I conceded did happen, because it did, on panel and in the bio.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And who was it that was arguing that a reality = universe?

I'm not claiming that it wasn't a Universe, I'm simply stating that it wasn't a Whole Universe,
which is a fact according to Marvel,
because again, it was a Timeline belonging to 616, 150 years in the Future.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Tiny or not, it was still a universe.

I agree, just not a whole Universe.

Whole Universe > Universal Timeline

Originally posted by Creshosk
Universe>galaxy

I agree ... Universal Timeline (Tiny Reality) > Galaxy

Originally posted by Creshosk
Jean>universe

I agree, the Phoenix is definitely more powerful than one of Eternity's countless Aspects.

Originally posted by Creshosk
This seems more like nitpicking. You'll note that while other characters have dealt with certain types of threats before they don't always seem to show up for that same type of threat especially if happening in another team/hero's book.

I have to disagree, because it wasn't just a threat.

In this story, the entire World was afflicted by Sublime,
surely another Hero (if one existed) would have been involved.

As all entire Earth span stories involve multiple characters from separate books.

Originally posted by Creshosk
In my opinion if you're greater than a universe you're multiversal.

Well then cool.

But you know, you're re-defining the term Multiversal,
like you told me Marvel was doing with the term Omniverse.

but we'll leave it at that.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Quibbling. It was an "orphan wounded universe" but a universe none the less.

A baby, as stated on panel above.

"It lost it's Parents when Unity broke out across the Megasystems"

Originally posted by Creshosk
Uatu's a putz. Remember how back when phoenix was first revealed to be a cosmic entity GS used to use that one line of his about her being second only to blah blah blah...

Only it wasn't just a hyperbolic quote.

He was depicted artistically On Panel performing the feat.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Never once said "composite energy" in the scans. In the previous page it mentions what type of power she manipulates.

Phoenix wins this, Storm was strong enough to hold the conciousness of eternity, White phoenix of the crown held a universe in her hands with ease.

This really does seem like a spite thread.

Eternity is the manifestation of life-force of the universe, or perhaps you missed this panel:

http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ff550dcp0024sr6.jpg

Hence, when he was dying, he would have taken the universe with him. Eternity is the sum of the universe, hence in the IF arc, the real point was Thanos trying to replace him. Notice, Eternity was more powerful than the rest of the cosmics put together (save Living Tribunal). Storm contained the essense of Eternity. 😄