The first phoenix was a man but then agen he did not have the phoenix powers.
He just had the name phoenix(it had nothing to do with the actual phoenix force)
the best person u should ask is phoenix avatar she knows alot and is a gr8 person to talk, look for jean grey/phoenix forum and she will be there to give u all the information u need!
Originally posted by supreme_being
The first phoenix was a man but then agen he did not have the phoenix powers.
He just had the name phoenix(it had nothing to do with the actual phoenix force)
the best person u should ask is phoenix avatar she knows alot and is a gr8 person to talk, look for jean grey/phoenix forum and she will be there to give u all the information u need!
O thanks and stuff but um, ima guy, i guess its my sigs, avy, and favoritism, lol, bt thts ok. Im pretty sure Giraud was a phoenix host, there was a pic somewhere w/ him conversing w/ another aspect of phoenix in firebird/man form. and uncannyxmen has a thing ffor him in the alternate universe section, and remember, TESTOSTERONE!, lol
Does anyone know when they are going to bring jean back. Enuf already!!! I've never seen someone die so many times and do pointlessly. Has anybody noticed that it's always the girls who die? Sexism? Jean (like 50 times), Meggaen, Psylocke, Revanche, Magik, Moira, etc.? Just a wierd thought!!!
BRING BACK PHOENIX!!!
there've been just as many guys dead as girls through the years. the guys seem to have a lower rebirth rate, though.
and the phoenix can possess anyone with a certain unexplained trait about them. the shi'ar imply that any omega can handle the phoenix, considering the whole quentin quire incident, but others like iceman may not logically be able to. of course, there was a what if..? where storm was possessed, but that's really beyond canon. others speculate it's got something to do with the grey DNA, saying that rachel can host the phoenix because she received the "trait" genetically. that would also make cable and x-man (when he wasn't deceased,) available hosts, considering a female donor has only X chromosomes to pass, thus having each of her offspring receive the trait.
other theories, revolving much more around the phoenix corps and the white hot room, are out there, just lacking much definition. fanboys and fangirls of jean will try to argue that jean IS the phoenix, but that's false. and since there's really no clear lines that can be drawn between jean and the others in the phoenix corps, it seems like the phoenix is "selective" on a level that goes far beyond mere sexism or heredity.
Originally posted by Disappear
fanboys and fangirls of jean will try to argue that jean IS the phoenix, but that's false. and since there's really no clear lines that can be drawn between jean and the others in the phoenix corps, it seems like the phoenix is "selective" on a level that goes far beyond mere sexism or heredity.
I am no fanboy and i argue that jean is the closest thing phoenix has to human form. It is not false. The original idea behind phoenix was that it was the union between Jean and the primal force of creation. Jeans burning up on re entry and subsequent death caused her to become one with everything and she reformed as a higher being. She chose the name phoenix as a symbol of her death and rebirth. Jean originally was literally phoenix.
In 86 the retcon made phoenix a seperate being.
That retcon was scrapped in 2002 by New X-men which stated that Jean and other beings were genetically phoenixes it was part of their mutations to be phoenixes, however Jean had a special relationship to the power making her the white phoenix of crown.
Endsong cemented this into continuity by showing that Jean and phoenix are literally one. She is the closest thing it has to a human form.
but they're not "literally one." the phoenix has been a separate entity for most of "her" existence, and has danced from host to host to host. there was a big ol' argument about this over at the UXN forums not long ago, pointing out the different viewpoints that could surround what happened in endsong. if i can find the link, i'll bring it up. but, basically, if you believe jean is the phoenix, you'll read it that way. if you don't, you'll read it another way. that was the message o' that whole argument.
Originally posted by Disappear
but they're not "literally one." the phoenix has been a separate entity for most of "her" existence, and has danced from host to host to host. there was a big ol' argument about this over at the UXN forums not long ago, pointing out the different viewpoints that could surround what happened in endsong. if i can find the link, i'll bring it up. but, basically, if you believe jean is the phoenix, you'll read it that way. if you don't, you'll read it another way. that was the message o' that whole argument.
You need to embrace the concept of retcon. Seriously.
Originally back in 1980 Jean literally was Phoenix. The union between Jean and the power of creation. Jean reformed and chose the name Phoenix. It was symbollic of what happened to her and what she was. Phoenix then was the realisation of Jeans ultimate potential as a psi. It was in her genes to harness the power of creation. The firebird was just a physical manifestation of her power. Nothing more.
In 1986 long after the dark phoenix saga marvel wanted Jean to be in the new team (X Factor) but they couldnt just bring her back to life because she would still have been a mass murderer. They then decided to make the energy bird a seperate entity. They seperated phoenix from Jean making it just another run of the mill cosmic entity therefore making it and not Jean accountable for the mass murder. It was then that they came up with an alternative origin for phoenix (which they now had to do). They made phoenix the sum of all psionic energy to have ever existed, that existed and that ever would exist.
Chrsi Claremont didnt like what they did to Jean and Phoenix. He thought by resurrecting Jean and by making Phoenix seperate it cheapened the Dark Phoenix saga. Therefore he released some Classic X-men back stories which made it very clear that phoenix in the eyes of its creator (Chris C) was originally one and the same as Jean:
“-My consciousness, my form and its ability to communicate on this plane of existence derive directly from you. They provide an...awareness of your dominant emotions and memories.
-Oh great. You mean you're a figment of my imagination?"
-You jest, yet what is imagination, save the ability to conceive of that which is beyond reality.You are human.I am of creation.”
This from Classic Xmen 8 shows that Jean and Phoeni xare indeed one and the same. This is the scene in the space shuttle where Jeans Phoenix self appears to her. This follows the idea which was later taken up again in New Xmen, that Jean was always Phoenix, she just never knew it. The cocoon/egg is just part of her phoenix life cycle. As stated in New Xmen 128 and 150 as Phoenix she must die to be reborn. She died initially in Uncanny 101 and was reborn as Phoenix in Jamica Bay. After she killed herself at the end of the DP saga she was reborn from the cocoon. When Logan and Jean were approaching the sun and burning up (drawing parallels with the shuttle incident notice the suns involvement again) Logan killed Jean and she was reborn her Phoenix consciouness was released. When Jean was later killed by Xorneto in issue 150 Jean was reborn later from a Phoenix egg. Jean was reborn from the Phoenix egg in the form of the golden woman, the same form which appeared to Jean on the space shuttle. Jean is literally Phoenix she just never knew it. Also does anyone remember Excalibur? When Rachel asked Phoenix to show her its true form it appeared before her again as the golden woman. Jean.:
In 2002 New X-men scrapped the 86 retcon and made Jean and Phoenix one again. It made clear that being Phoenix was a mutation. The ultimate mutation mirroring Chris C's original ideas that Phoenix was Jeans "ultimate potential as a psi". Phoenix was the final stage of mutation possible and whilst other beings could reach this point of "ultimate mutation" (Quentin Quire was shown to have evolved into Phoenix in New Xmen 154) Jean had a special relationship with this force and was the closest thing it had to human form, therefore making her the White Phoenix of Crown. Like the original idea behind the character, Jean is Phoenix there is no seperate sentient force. Jean and Phoenix are one and the same. Jean is theh Phoenix in human form and for her to become Phoenix she must die for her Phoenix self to be released.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe tool chest has to be opened in order for the hammer to be taken out. 🙂
In 2002 New X-men scrapped the 86 retcon and made Jean and Phoenix one again. It made clear that being Phoenix was a mutation. The ultimate mutation mirroring Chris C's original ideas that Phoenix was Jeans "ultimate potential as a psi". Phoenix was the final stage of mutation possible and whilst other beings could reach this point of "ultimate mutation" (Quentin Quire was shown to have evolved into Phoenix in New Xmen 154) Jean had a special relationship with this force and was the closest thing it had to human form, therefore making her the White Phoenix of Crown. Like the original idea behind the character, Jean is Phoenix there is no seperate sentient force. Jean and Phoenix are one and the same. Jean is theh Phoenix in human form and for her to become Phoenix she must die for her Phoenix self to be released.