Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Yeah but at the start of the battle he won't be in vapor form. All Supes has to do is melt him inhale him and fly into space and then exhale him. He would do all that before Iceman could even think.

No.

Once inside Superman he could transfer his consciousness into his body fluids, he doesn't have to stay in the vapor, he can transfer along any source of moisture. Unless Supes removes all moisture from his being he's not getting rid of Bobby, and if he did, he'd die from complete dehydration down to the cellular level, which Iceman could forcibly do anyway.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Think about all the powers a martian has, a military mind, and one inside a body...quite a few posibilities there.

Supes also allowed the atom in his body once, and atom nearly died in there.

Yeah, Martians are powerful, but the thing in this situation is that even though Protex was in liquid form, he was "liquid Martian", not water, or any other naturally occuring bodily fluid within Superman's body chemistry. I highly doubt Supes world renowned "immune system" would allow a foreign organism into his cells, maybe into his organs like his bowels or intestine, but it would not be metabolized. Similar to how transplant patients' bodies reject the organs given to them (rejecting foreign organic tissue).

As for the Atom, if he could enter one of Supes cells and plant some kind of micro-thermonuclear device that disrupted Supes process of metabolizeng absorbed radiant EM emissions, he could kill Supes. He'd need "prep". Using his powers alone, he could possibly miniturize a portion of Supes brain cells from the inside (granted he could somehow get into his brain cells).

Originally posted by illadelph12
Once inside Superman he could transfer his consciousness into his body fluids, he doesn't have to stay in the vapor, he can transfer along any source of moisture. Unless Supes removes all moisture from his being he's not getting rid of Bobby, and if he did, he'd die from complete dehydration down to the cellular level, which Iceman could forcibly do anyway.

I AGREE

Yeah, Martians are powerful, but the thing in this situation is that even though Protex was in liquid form, he was "liquid Martian", not water, or any other naturally occuring bodily fluid within Superman's body chemistry. I highly doubt Supes world renowned "immune system" would allow a foreign organism into his cells, maybe into his organs like his bowels or intestine, but it would not be metabolized. Similar to how transplant patients' bodies reject the organs given to them (rejecting foreign organic tissue).

AND AGAIN
.

Its not that hard to comprehend.......Iceman has an uncanny advantage in this fight

to end this i suggest everyone run out to the nearst barnes and Noble and read any one of the superman or JLA encyclopedias[especially the most recent volumes]. in them you'll see explicitly where it says that supes individual cells are charged with whatever energies he's in the vicinty of(solar, cosmic, or any sort of radiant energy in the yellow end of the EM spectrum, etc.) then it will go on to say that its becuase everyone of his cells are emitting a charge that it creates an overall aura. its almost like a waste product so to speak(my words not thiers) the same way when you get worked up you sweat from every pore, when his cells absorb the energy, after they have received sufficient nourishment they exude whatever is left over out ward to his skin, thus creating this aura/bio matrix(almost like the principle behind the electrolytes in sweat).moreover,when his cells absorb energy it remains stored until he uses it up. thats why he can go for long bouts without having to breathe or almost indefintaly without food cuz his body starts to feed on said stored energies

so what we end up having is, becuase his cells are constantly absorbing solar energy, his cells are constantly metabolizing them into nourishment, or ATP if you wanna get all scientific. therefore, due to this constant breakdown of energy his aura/bio matrix is always being fueled, thus providing him with continued protection. thats why when doomsday beat his ass properly he seemingly died becuase his reserves of stored energy was being spent faster than his cells could replace them so his body shut down automatically. and after he was brought back to his rejuvenation chamber his cells got a jump start cuz he was being fed solar energy, so when you think about it superman can never really die. that i know for sure

the only thing i dont proport to know is if his blood, stomach fluids,tears, urine, semen, and feces have the same protection. but then again his blood might definatelty be protected cuz after all Luthor has used it to make inferior clones of him(bizarro, and superboy included)and we all see that they have similar powers to him. and even if the rest of his bodily fluids arent shielded and bobby could transfer his consciousness in his urine, stomach acids ,semen, or feces. though it might be simultaneously cool and disgusting at the same time it would all revert to the fact that the rest of him is invulnerable so there would be nothing he could do. so who knows he would indeed trap himself in there

Interesting Manjaro.

But it doesn't change anything.

It's still a biochemical process similar to photosynthesis. His body has specialized cells that metabolize energy like a plant metabolizes sunlight, and his body produces the radiant meta-protein that creates his biomatrix. That doesn't change the fact that Iceman can ride along and attack at the lines of Superman's own organic physiology.

He still metabolizes organic material, water, and air, he simply stores sunlight and radiation like we store fat.

The fact he can survive on his energy reserves is immaterial. A person can survive on their fat for a period of time as well. The only difference is that this part of Superman's "nutrition" is constantly restored due to sun and EM exposure. If you removed him from sunlight and other radiant energies he'd starve to death over time like any other organism without food.

Superman has a circulatory system:

You provided an example yourself that Lex used Supes own blood in cloning attempts. If Supes blood were protected by a biomatrix, Lex would not be able to manipulate it. That is portrayed by DC directly.

I'm sure we all know where I'm going by now, Ive already beaten this point to death.

Iceman simply has a tactical advantage. Supes is infinitely more powerful overall by comparison without question, Iceman simply has a trump card against him. He could remove all moisture from Supes body and cause dehydration down to the cellular level, halt the flow of bodily fluids throughout Supes body and cause cardiovascular, respritory, and cerebral seizure, or destroy Superman's brain from the inside along his blood vessels using moisture inversion.

It would be a very interesting match.I think Supes has the upperhand,but if he underestimates Iceman he'll have a big suprise coming.One thing I'll give to Icemans advantage is the battle with the eight Chinese Immortals the X men fought when finding xorns brother.A lot of those soldiers fused together and stepped on Juggernaut.Not even Juggernaut was strong enough to lift them off,but Iceman just grew to about 80ft tall and knocked the SHHHHHHi---- out of them.

That's because Juggernaut's been nerfed beyond recognition. He and Darkseid should start a support group.

What u talking bout Willis 😄

Originally posted by illadelph12
Interesting Manjaro.

But it doesn't change anything.

It's still a biochemical process similar to photosynthesis. His body has specialized cells that metabolize energy like a plant metabolizes sunlight, and his body produces the radiant meta-protein that creates his biomatrix. That doesn't change the fact that Iceman can ride along and attack at the lines of Superman's own organic physiology.

He still metabolizes organic material, water, and air, he simply stores sunlight and radiation like we store fat.

The fact he can survive on his energy reserves is immaterial. A person can survive on their fat for a period of time as well. The only difference is that this part of Superman's "nutrition" is constantly restored due to sun and EM exposure. If you removed him from sunlight and other radiant energies he'd starve to death over time like any other organism without food.

Superman has a circulatory system:

You provided an example yourself that Lex used Supes own blood in cloning attempts. If Supes blood were protected by a biomatrix, Lex would not be able to manipulate it. That is portrayed by DC directly.

I'm sure we all know where I'm going by now, Ive already beaten this point to death.

Iceman simply has a tactical advantage. Supes is infinitely more powerful overall by comparison without question, Iceman simply has a trump card against him. He could remove all moisture from Supes body and cause dehydration down to the cellular level, halt the flow of bodily fluids throughout Supes body and cause cardiovascular, respritory, and cerebral seizure, or destroy Superman's brain from the inside along his blood vessels using moisture inversion.

Its nothing like Photosynthesis

lmao sorry mate. Photosynthesis produces Glucose a simple sugar as it end product.

Supes is producing somehow an energy aura, this is nothing like a chemical product.

Energy = atomic, subatomic em or other unknown type of energy. Glucose = Chemical sugar molecule structure C6 H12 O6

Keep the faith 🤘
Stay :Whirly: I wish my own smiley appeared 😂 witth a big red Won it (for Whirly) what were you thinking Wa"ker, well, thats not very nice 😄)

Iceman dies 😄

Originally posted by DrDoom
That's because Juggernaut's been nerfed beyond recognition. He and Darkseid should start a support group.

Yes,I realize that,however to say Juggernaut is a weakling or something wouldn't realy be right.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
What u talking bout Willis 😄

Its nothing like Photosynthesis

lmao sorry mate. Photosynthesis produces Glucose a simple sugar as it end product.

Supes is producing somehow an energy aura, this is nothing like a chemical product.

Energy = atomic, subatomic em or other unknown type of energy. Glucose = Chemical sugar molecule structure C6 H12 O6

Keep the faith 🤘
Stay :Whirly: I wish my own smiley appeared 😂 witth a big red Won it (for Whirly) what were you thinking Wa"ker, well, thats not very nice 😄)

Iceman dies 😄

Photosynthesis, an endergonic reaction, produces chemical energy. Glucose contains a high energy covalent bond. It's not just a cluster of atoms. It's chemical energy.

Superman does use chemical energy.

Yes Supes uses chemical energy and yes it is both a cluster of atoms, although they are linked by energy bonds and energy is released in three stages, electrolysis, Krebs, electron chain through intermediates eg NAD etc to cause ATP to become ADP (interestingly did you know ATP can go further and become cAMP (its used as an intracellular messenger, but I digress)) and yes supes uses chemical energy. But the arua protecting his cells is not chemical. Its unlikely the introduction of a foreign fluid would affect a selectively permeable forcefield!!!! to use an Osmosis analogy as we are all feeling biological, or think of it as a cell membrane😄, much more likely Supes field shuts it out😄 This time no need for references in the discussion CC I can get as technical as anyone wants without the web, without text books, although I guarantee most will get very lost 😄 This is my ting 😄 and I love it!

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Photosynthesis, an endergonic reaction, produces chemical energy. Glucose contains a high energy covalent bond. It's not just a cluster of atoms. It's chemical energy.

Superman does use chemical energy.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Yes Supes uses chemical energy and yes it is both a cluster of atoms, although they are linked by energy bonds and energy is released in three stages, electrolysis, Krebs, electron chain through intermediates eg NAD etc to cause ATP to become ADP (interestingly did you know ATP can go further and become cAMP (its used as an intracellular messenger, but I digress)) and yes supes uses chemical energy. But the arua protecting his cells is not chemical. Its unlikely the introduction of a foreign fluid would affect a selectively permeable forcefield!!!! to use an Osmosis analogy as we are all feeling biological, or think of it as a cell membrane😄, much more likely Supes field shuts it out😄 This time no need for references in the discussion CC I can get as technical as anyone wants without the web, without text books, although I guarantee most will get very lost 😄 This is my ting 😄 and I love it!

I understand the process of cellular respiration. No need to get all bookish.

Of course the aura isn't chemical energy, but when was it established that the aura covered each of his cells? If that were true, his phospholipid bliayer would be impermeable by water molecules. That would mean no diffusion. The bioaura is skintight. It doesn't cover each of his cells.

Who says he needs diffusion, if the energy field performs some kind of active transpot and its in Manjaro's post reading from the official guide that every cell as an amount of the aura, I suspect as his aura got stronger as he got older his basic cell to cell transport processes become energy mediated. Remember he may look like us, walk like us and talk like us, but he is not like us😄 The fluid mosaic model of the cell your talking about with the phospholipid bilayer is not an issue as he may well have special receptors to get round this 😄 Although much more likely as he is a latent telapath the aura is unconciously controlled by psychic hormones and messengers, that would make a lot of sense actually. 😄

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Who says he needs diffusion, if the energy field performs some kind of active transpot and its in Manjaro's post reading from the official guide that every cell as an amount of the aura, I suspect as his aura got stronger as he got older his basic cell to cell transport processes become energy mediated. Remember he may look like us, walk like us and talk like us, but he is not like us😄 The fluid mosaic model of the cell your talking about with the phospholipid bilayer is not an issue as he may well have special receptors to get round this 😄 Although much more likely as he is a latent telapath the aura is unconciously controlled by psychic hormones and messengers, that would make a lot of sense actually. 😄

I'll have to read Superman's Ultimate Guide.

I have never read it either by the way you have been very naughty on the Superman/Thor thread 😄

Originally posted by whirlysplat
What u talking bout Willis 😄

Its nothing like Photosynthesis

lmao sorry mate. Photosynthesis produces Glucose a simple sugar as it end product.

Supes is producing somehow an energy aura, this is nothing like a chemical product.

Energy = atomic, subatomic em or other unknown type of energy. Glucose = Chemical sugar molecule structure C6 H12 O6

Keep the faith 🤘
Stay :Whirly: I wish my own smiley appeared 😂 witth a big red Won it (for Whirly) what were you thinking Wa"ker, well, thats not very nice 😄)

Iceman dies 😄

Whirly, I didn't mean that the actual workings of the process in which Supes metabolizes sunlight is the same as a plant performing photosythesis, I meant that the idea of an organism metabolizing sunlight (and in this case radiant EM also) is similar in application to photosythesis.

A comparison, not a parallel.

Does that bring a bit more clarity?

Dupe.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Whirly, I didn't mean that the actual workings of the process in which Supes metabolizes sunlight is the same as a plant performign photosythesis, I meant that the idea of an organism metabolizing sunlight (and in this case radiant EM also) is similar in application photosythesis.

A comparison, not a parallel.

Does that bring a bit more clarity?

Yup but its a bit to simplistic approach as I explained in my post. I take your point both use light energy but I think thats as far as it goes. Its like saying because aoth run on electricity crystal radio and dildo both run on electricity they employ the same basic principles. One picks up radio waves, the other sticks up, well you get the picture. 😄

Oh, and don't worry about getting too 'bookish' and scientific. My strength may be real estate and property law, but I can keep up in the science department as well.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Yup but its a bit to simplistic approach as I explained in my post. I take your point both use light energy but I think thats as far as it goes. Its like saying because aoth run on electricity crystal radio and dildo both run on electricity they employ the same basic principles. One picks up radio waves, the other sticks up, well you get the picture. 😄

Not all dildos run on electricity. Some are operated manually. 😉