Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Its from the Birthing Matrix, You can also take the material under Knite conditions 😄 Well icemans energy must be alien and I don't think supes aura would let it in, kind of negates "invulnerable", Supes is not very susceptable to psychics, He rarely is controlled. But thats not an argument as they are taking control of his brainwaves not introducing physicality. Its like saying I can't jam a waterproof radio, of course I can jam it. Will water get into it if its waterproof and I put it in the bath..... no😄

Originally posted by illadelph12
How can Kryptonian dna/genetic material (I'm assuming bloof) be cloned if it's protected by a biomatrix at the cellular level? Let alone artificially harvested and cultured?

And yes, Supes is invulnerable to alien agents, but Iceman would not be an alien agent. He's not introducing any type of alien organic material to Superman's physiology, he's simply inhabiting the moisture naturally found within Superman's being. Superman is not invulnerable to psionics and/or posessions. Iceman transferring his consciousness into Supes bodily fluids is like a telepath psionically taking over Supes mind or a spirit posessing his body, both of which he has fallen victim to before.

I'll check out that thread Whirly.

I dont know much about the science stuff you guys are talking about but if Supermans aura protects him from the vaccum of space does Iceman really have a chance to pull anything off?

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Illadelph - you certainly know your stuff when it comes to Iceman, I'll give you that! 😄

Some of the stuff that you've come up with has made a lot of sense.

But you do still need to realise that some of his attacks might not effect Supes the way they do humans - he has a different physiology.

Plus - have you thought of the intense bio-thermal energy that must be inside Supes all the time? When he uses his powers, meta-atp is changed back into energy - he must be thousands of degrees inside that body of his. Might that have an effect on Iceman if he got inside?

I considered that. Iceman can exist as vapor, which is simply a hyper state of liquid. Even if Supes naturally body temperature is extremely high, he is still organic and it is a known fact that his body contains and consists of fluids as we do, and that he metabolizes air and water as we do.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I dont know much about the science stuff you guys are talking about but if Supermans aura protects him from the vaccum of space does Iceman really have a chance to pull anything off?

He can bypass Supes protection as Supes own natural fluids do. His body naturally transports oxygen and hydration to his cells. All Iceman has to do is inhabit these fluids and hitch a ride inside of Supes defenses. Like a Trojan Horse.

NoI think it would be selectively permeable and I think by trying to "hide inside" he would be altering the energy state of the water. He has to and that would be blocked by the arua. also, Supes must be in a state of super homeostasis. So any attempt to overload him by iceman I am sure supes "super" excretory systems could handle 😄 I suspect Supes would just piss him out 😄

Keep the faith

Keep it Whirly 🤘

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Its from the Birthing Matrix, You can also take the material under Knite conditions 😄 Well icemans energy must be alien and I don't think supes aura would let it in, kind of negates "invulnerable", Supes is not very susceptable to psychics, He rarely is controlled. But thats not an argument as they are taking control of his brainwaves not introducing physicality. Its like saying I can't jam a waterproof radio, of course I can jam it. Will water get into it if its waterproof and I put it in the bath..... no😄

Has Iceman ever done anything like this before?

Originally posted by whirlysplat
NoI think it would be selectively permeable and I think by trying to "hide inside" he would be altering the energy state of the water. He has to and that would be blocked by the arua. also, Supes must be in a state of super homeostasis. So any attempt to overload him by iceman I am sure supes "super" excretory systems could handle 😄 I suspect Supes would just piss him out 😄

Keep the faith

Keep it Whirly 🤘

I don't believe so. Bobby doesn't change the state of the matter when he inhabits it. He simply gives it his sentience. It's still plain water. Supes protection doesn't protect against psionics, spirits, or astral forms. That's essentially what Bobby would be. Like a water wraith.

Iceman is a psychic presence his fluid is not 😄 thats physical nornmal cells have an osmotic balance various things ensure this under pretty extreme conditions for humans. Supes if he has anything like human physiology, which you are assuming,I am not😄 Would simply be super. The psychic presence can hang round if it wants the liquid will not. :d
Psionics involves theoretical subatomic particles called psions. Its not exactly an energy attack 😄

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Iceman is a sychic presence his fluid is not 😄 thats physical nornmal cells have an osmotic balance various things ensure this under pretty extreme conditions for humans. Supes if he has anything like human physiology, which you are assuming,I am not😄 Would simply be super. The psychic presence can hang round if it wants the liquid will not. :d
Psionics involves theoretical subatomic particles called psions. Its not exactly an energy attack 😄

He would no longer be his own fluid, he would be Superman's fluid. Bobby would simply control it. It would have Supes dna and everything, just not his control. His body would not know the difference.

And energy and matter are the same thing, just different states. Matter is just condensed potential energy waiting for a reaction to release it. Photons are particles that are made up of condensed energy. Tachyons are particles that are made up of condensed energy. 'Psions' (theoretical) are particles that are made up of condensed energy. Gravitons. Electrons. On and on and on.

It's a matter of perspective.

At the base of all things is the same thing, energy (or 'God's Essence', if you're a spiritual person), regardless of the form.

But I think you know that Whirly.

Originally posted by illadelph12
He would no longer be his own fluid, he would be Superman's fluid. Bobby would simply control it. It would have Supes dna and everything, just not his control. His body would not know the difference.

And energy and matter are the same thing, just different states. Matter is just condensed potential energy waiting for a reaction to release it. Photons are particles that are made up of condensed energy. Tachyons are particles that are made up of condensed energy. 'Psions' (theoretical) are particles that are made up of condensed energy. Gravitons. Electrons. On and on and on.

It's a matter of perspective.

At the base of all things is the same thing, energy (or 'God's Essence', if you're a spiritual person), regardless of the form.

But I think you know that Whirly.

Hmmmmmmmmmm and supes aura simply deals with alien energy, Look at Maximas level of psychic blast. As for own his own fluid again hmmmm Supes Homeostatic systems would be dealing with this I suspect their control would be greater than any Iceman could offer inside superman. I suspect the Aura would prevent this. As I said the Kryptonian DNA is a red herring. Its from the birthing matrix 😄
Hmmmm, spiritual energy, hmmmm chi a lot is attributed to this in martial arts etc my thoughts on chi are here. Its in relation to martial arts board breaking 😄

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344380&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=20

[Regarding other thread]

V for Vendetta was excellent. I'd almost forgotten about that one.

Yes it has dated now though sadly, very worried about the film. A post thatcherite dictatorship does not translate well have you posted your 5? 😄

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Hmmmmmmmmmm and supes aura simply deals with alien energy, Look at Maximas level of psychic blast. As for own his own fluid again hmmmm Supes Homeostatic systems would be dealing with this I suspect their control would be greater than any Iceman could offer inside superman. I suspect the Aura woulld prevent this. As I said the Kryptonian DNA is a red herring. Its from the birthing matrix 😄
Hmmmm, spiritual energy, hmmmm chi a lot is attributed to this in martial arts etc my thoughts on chi are here. Its in relation to martial arts board breaking 😄

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344380&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=20

Superman's homeostasis wouldn't have time to react. From inside Supes protection Bobby could strike with a lethal blow before the natural defenses kick in. Bobby just has to stop the motion of all of the atoms within Supes fluids that his presence inhabits. Or he can draw all moisture from Supes being unto himself and exit Supes body, using the fluids as his new body. Supes bodily fluids already move about freely within him. They would simply be playing host to Bobby's consciousness. Superman without any moisture in his entire being would die. His body wouldn't be able to facilitate the meta-protein process. He'd be Kryptonian dust.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Yes it has dated now though sadly, very worried about the film. A post thatcherite dictatorship does not translate well have you posted your 5? 😄

They're making a film? I hadn't heard of that. Hmm. Who are they getting to direct it? And who is writing the adaptation? I hate when great comic storylines get horrible live action adaptations. Like Guyver. They'd better not desecrate the legacy of that book. I always hoped they'd do a Watchmen film. I'd like to see someone portray Rorschach and Night OWl and how they'd handle Doc Manhattan.

I haven't posted my 5 yet, I'll get around to it. I'm actually at work and get off in about 7 minutes (I'm in California). I haven't gotten much accomplished here at work today arguing this Iceman/Superman thread (as if it actually mattered). 😆

Priorities... :laugh

Not really, thats the thing about homeostatic systems. Exchange pumps etc in humans only allow in whats needed. I think supes aura does the same thing thats what i've been trying to explain. The fluid mosaic model of human cells has "gatekeepers", in simplest terms they react pretty much instantly to changes like pH etc. Processes within the body happen at a ridiculous rate e'g the Liver does 5000 things in a minute. Enzyme turnover numbers can be in the hundreds of thousands in a minute. By the time Bobby thinks, Supes Super system which must act at an nth factor faster has done its job. Supes is back in balance 😄 I think the aura stops this being needed anywway😄

I'll continue this debate tomorrow. My PC is at my girlfriends house and she's at her Mom's.

Good night ya'll.

Good exchange Whirly.

Very Very interesting theories on here, I won't pretend that I remember everything I studied on these topics, but lets consider this...

If Bobby goes in as water and tries to do something, Isn't it also possible that his fluids could be hijacked by Supes own field leaving bobby with no control over anything? Kind of like Nightcrawler materializing inside a wall. Supes field is psionic in nature as well.

I agree, sorry I interupted your day man its been fun, I am in London and off to bed in a minute, stayed up to late, I am up early watching a rugby game tmz its an important game for us Brits😄 and fortunately I don't work saturdays although I obviously have lots I bring home. 😄 Your in Real Estate, maybe I'll tell you what i do sometime, my degree was in molecular biology though 😄 Pleasee post your five, I'll try and find something on the V film for you, take care mate🙂

Originally posted by illadelph12
They're making a film? I hadn't heard of that. Hmm. Who are they getting to direct it? And who is writing the adaptation? I hate when great comic storylines get horrible live action adaptations. Like Guyver. They'd better not desecrate the legacy of that book. I always hoped they'd do a Watchmen film. I'd like to see someone portray Rorschach and Night OWl and how they'd handle Doc Manhattan.

I haven't posted my 5 yet, I'll get around to it. I'm actually at work and get off in about 7 minutes (I'm in California). I haven't gotten much accomplished here at work today arguing this Iceman/Superman thread (as if it actually mattered). 😆

Priorities... :laugh