Originally posted by whirlysplat
Yup but its a bit to simplistic approach as I explained in my post. I take your point both use light energy but I think thats as far as it goes. Its like saying because aoth run on electricity crystal radio and dildo both run on electricity they employ the same basic principles. One picks up radio waves, the other sticks up, well you get the picture. 😄
I get what you are saying.
Iceman still kills him though by riding his bodily fluids inside of his protection. His body metabolizes water and organic matter and spreads the nutrients from such thoughout his body. It is a biochemical process. I posted it a couple pages back:
Sources of Powers: Superman seems to have two primary sources of energy. The first is that Superman's cellular structure is suffused with specialized cells, organelles and organs whose function seems to be the storage of the radiant energy in multiple formats. It is unknown if this is a part of the normal Kryptonian physiology or was added due to their scientific advancements in biomodifications. One of these formats is a superdense cellular protein that can be broken down and turned back into biological energy. This metaprotein is what powers Superman's long-term endurance and is restored slowly. The second is Superman's bio-aura that acts as effective an energy containment device as ever seen in nature. This field is constantly reclaiming stray electromagnetic energies from the environment and converting them into this cellular protein (for the remainder of this report it shall be called Meta-ATP). The energy for the meta-energy protein in Superman's body is captured by his biological electromagnetic reclaimation aura. This invisible (to the naked eye) structure acts as a radiant energy collector that creates an energy-retentive skintight force field capable of absorbing and converting cosmic radiation (solar, radiant and electromagnetic energies). One aspect of the energy gathered by this field is that there is almost no electromagnetic waste. This biomatrix recycles almost all of its radiation-harnessed energies. Otherwise, Superman would glow with a distinctive signature, easily detected by others, whenever he uses his powers.
Its unclear as the science is so bad howw supes powers work, but no, an alien energy riding his fluids would probably be registers and blocked, by his cells defences. Iceman might well just findhimself imprisoned as an energy wave inside supes being broken down and excreted as no em energy is wasted. Bobby might just get absorbed 😄
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Its unclear as the science is so bad howw supes powers work, but no, an alien energy riding his fluids would probably be registers and blocked, by his cells defences. Iceman might well just findhimself imprisoned as an energy wave inside supes being broken down and excreted as no em energy is wasted. Bobby might just get absorbed 😄
How so? Supes has proven susceptible to psionics and posession before. How would this be any different? How would his cells defend against the fluid within them becoming sentient?
Supes field is excreted out of every cell, Supes is a latent telepath, Bobby Drake is some kind of energy wave controlling water particles psionically, not a psychic. Supes field and extra organs, organalles etc waste no em energy (superman guide according to Manjaro🙂 ). Bobby would be in all probability either repelled or absorbed.
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Supes field is excreted out of every cell, Supes is a latent telepath, Bobby Drake is some kind of energy wave controlling water particles psionically, not a psychic. Supes field and extra organs, organalles etc waste no em energy (superman guide according to Manjaro🙂 ). Bobby would be in all probability either repelled or absorbed.
That's highly unlikely. If that were the case his biomatrix would have killed Lois Lane when they embraced because his biomatrix would have absorbed her bio-electric brain impulses being in such close proximity to him. Why didn't his biomatrix absorb and metabolize Cyborg Superman? And the Atom or Protex when they entered his body; all energy from their bodies should have been absorbed and metabolized. They should both be brain dead.
His being susceptible to psionics is further proof that this isn't the case. His biomatrix should absorb and metabolize psionics using your line of reasoning, but that is clearly not the case because Superman has been mind controlled on numerous occasions. His biomatrix does not absorb the consciousness of others. Bobby inhabiting Supes body fluids and coming into contact with his biomatrix would be just like Superman coming into contact with any other human being, save the fact Bobby's body consist of his bodily fluids. He would not absorb and metabolize Iceman's mind/consciousness/astral form.
No it does it selectively against threats, she was not trying to invade his body as kind of energy. More likely though his energy keeps a kind of homeostasis going on inside and out. Anything which interferes with his bodies balance is destroyed e.g. why he doesn't get ill, why he destroyed the alien in his body as soon as he got back under a yellow sun etc, etc.
Hope that clarifies things for you 😄
Originally posted by whirlysplat
No it does it selectively against threats, she was not trying to invade his body as kind of energy. More likely though his energy keeps a kind of homeostasis going on inside and out. Anything which interferes with his bodies balance is destroyed e.g. why he doesn't get ill, why he destroyed the alien in his body as soon as he got back under a yellow sun etc, etc.Hope that clarifies things for you 😄
I undestand that, but it doesn't explain how he's susceptible to psionics. Obviously his biomatix doesn't protect against psionic energy, and that's what Bobby's consciousness would be. His biomatrix does not absorb and metabolize psionics. Superman does not absorb and metabolize hostile psionic invasions of his body, When Bobby inhabits Superman's bodily fluid his biomatrix will not have the capacity to absorb his consciousness just as it doesn't have the capacity to absorb any other beings consciousness.
As for effecting Kal El's homeostasis, if Bobby is inhabiting Supes own body fluids his immune and nervous systems are not going to be able to discern what is causing the problem. Supes may be a 'latent telepath', but at this point in his development he most certainly is not capable of telepathy in any shape or form. There's now way for his natural defenses to know there is a consciousness inhabiting his bodily fluids, and even if so, he is susceptible to psionics, so he can be affected.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Interesting Manjaro.He could remove all moisture from Supes body and cause dehydration down to the cellular level, halt the flow of bodily fluids throughout Supes body and cause cardiovascular, respritory, and cerebral seizure, or destroy Superman's brain from the inside along his blood vessels using moisture inversion.
You know what that sounds kinda acceptable...the draining his moisture thing. but that would mean that Bobby would have had to make the necesarry arrangements to get him away from sunlight while finding a way to deplete his reserves. and since we can sorta assume that his blood isnt protected since inferior clones were made from them the fact still remains that lining of his regular cells and cell walls of artieres, and blood vessels are charged with this energy, ergo being indestructable, so he wont be rupturing any vessels or wreaking havoc on his circulatory system anytime soon.
example of what happens when he is drained...
this is him after getting hit with a several hundred megaton nuclear bomb, that subsequently blasted enuff sand in the atmosphere to blot out the sunlight. also emitted an EMP so big it cut power from gotham city.
now this his him absorbing solar energy from surrounding trees and plant life, recovering almost immediatley. so bobby dehydrating him might work from a point of view to incapacitate him temporarily, but unless they are fighting on the dark side of the moon or on Apokolips after supes spent all his energy i dont see that being anything more than temporary
Dark Knight Returns was an awesome book. One of my favorites all-time, no contest. A few steps behind "The Watchmen" in my book, but still great. I like the angle they took on Two Face in that story too.
Isn't that the same book where Batman has the suit that channels all of the electricity in Gotham into Supes brain, and Bruce was beating him down until he faked a heart attack to pull a Machiaveli-esque return when all the power in Gotham is gone and it's in a state of martial law, so he gets on a horse and rounds up the Mutant Gang to be his new team of 'Robins'. Is that considered cannon?
(Great story)
Back on topic though, that nuke did not totally deplete him of all moisture. If so he would lack cohesion because his cellular peptides would cease to exists. It severely shriveled him, but it didn't remove all moisture and reduce him to powder like total dehydration would do.
That was a great scene though. With Supes drifting looking like a floating corpse and pleading with the Sun to help him. Then he grabs the sunflower and absorbs the stored solars from it. That was tight. How anything organic (not Supes, the plants) survived a 450 megaton nuclear missile explosion is beyond me.
Oh, and on the stopping the flow of Supes blood/circulatory system, from inside Bobby could simultaneously stop the flow of blood in Supes brain, heart, and lungs, sending him into a severe seizure and neurological shock. When something like that (an extremely severe stroke) happens it's hard for the brain to react and send the needed impulses, the convulsions Supes would have would break his own body considering how strong he is.
No I think Supes clones came from the DNA carried by that Space Guardian guy that the eradicator had originally from supes ships birthing matrix, and it ended up at cadmus. His body is invulnerable to earth based alien agents eg virses etc and Iceman would get the same treatment from the aura.
changing the subject illadelph your choices are pretty good imo how about checking this thread out.
Illadelph - you certainly know your stuff when it comes to Iceman, I'll give you that! 😄
Some of the stuff that you've come up with has made a lot of sense.
But you do still need to realise that some of his attacks might not effect Supes the way they do humans - he has a different physiology.
Plus - have you thought of the intense bio-thermal energy that must be inside Supes all the time? When he uses his powers, meta-atp is changed back into energy - he must be thousands of degrees inside that body of his. Might that have an effect on Iceman if he got inside?
I honestly think the aura would prevent anything Iceman could do 😄
They are good ideas illadelph but................................. if supes cells are bathed in a special kind of tissue fluid it sand to reason that the aura "membrane" of supes cells is selectively permeable and anything alien in his bloodstream would be countered by his "super immune system" and/or his aura, which is pobably part of how the immune system works, a kind positive energy permeating him. Which may or may not be controlled by psychic "hormones" from Supes but certainly responds to negative changes. I can never remeber supes being made ill by anything but Knite. 😄
Keep the faith 🤘
Stay Whirly 🤘
Originally posted by whirlysplat
No I think Supes clones came from the DNA carried by that Space Guardian guy that the eradicator had originally from supes ships birthing matrix, and it ended up at cadmus. His body is invulnerable to earth based alien agents eg virses etc and Iceman would get the same treatment from the aura.changing the subject illadelph your choices are pretty good imo how about checking this thread out.
How can Kryptonian dna/genetic material (I'm assuming bloof) be cloned if it's protected by a biomatrix at the cellular level? Let alone artificially harvested and cultured?
And yes, Supes is invulnerable to alien agents, but Iceman would not be an alien agent. He's not introducing any type of alien organic material to Superman's physiology, he's simply inhabiting the moisture naturally found within Superman's being. Superman is not invulnerable to psionics and/or posessions. Iceman transferring his consciousness into Supes bodily fluids is like a telepath psionically taking over Supes mind or a spirit posessing his body, both of which he has fallen victim to before.
I'll check out that thread Whirly.