Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So answer the question. the PRESENCE and TOAA are equal. are you putting the beyonder on an even plain with them or above them?
In DC the Presence is Supreme
In Marvel Beyonder was Supreme, now TOAA has taken his place.
It's as simple as that.
On the other hand, if TOAA was the creator of the Marvel Multi-verse during Beyonder's prime,
then Beyonder was FAR more powerful than TOAA ever wished to be.
Originally posted by rotiart
infinity can be any number you want... if you took the limit of a number n... where n approaches infinity... in the function 1/n... then as the number n becomes larger, the function itself becomes smaller, such that as n approaches infinity, the function approaches zero, you can therefore assume that if n was equal to infinity, that the limit of that number is zero.So in that example... God has no power whatsoever. 😉
just cool it ok. The thread is the beyonder vs. the presence. answer who you think wins and call it a night. hell.
Originally posted by Mr Master
In DC the Presence is SupremeIn Marvel Beyonder was Supreme, now TOAA has taken his place.
It's as simple as that.
On the other hand, if TOAA was the creator of the Marvel Multi-verse during Beyonder's prime,
then Beyonder was FAR more powerful than TOAA ever wished to be.
See in ur logic, you say that the beyonder was more powerful than the TOAA. but the beyonder was yet and still, a part of the Marvel U. the minute he appeared, he was part of TOAA's design. He was part of his plan. The beyonder is NEVER shown being more powerful than TOAA. the beyonder is shown being more powerful than TOAA's creation, which was the universe. or multie verse. I can't remember what they said. Either way, the beyonder being more powerful than the creation in no way says that he is more powerful than the creator. The presence was and has always been in complete control of the DCU. TOAA has always been in control of the MU. He was never replaced. The beyonder is not on thier lvl.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlYou asked for a answer, and he gave it to you, and now your telling him to get on topic?🤨
just cool it ok. The thread is the beyonder vs. the presence. answer who you think wins and call it a night. hell.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlThe Beyonder isn't part of the MU, just like Superman isn't. Beyonder is just in the company.
See in ur logic, you say that the beyonder was more powerful than the TOAA. but the beyonder was yet and still, a part of the Marvel U. the minute he appeared, he was part of TOAA's design. He was part of his plan. The beyonder is NEVER shown being more powerful than TOAA. the beyonder is shown being more powerful than TOAA's creation, which was the universe. or multie verse. I can't remember what they said. Either way, the beyonder being more powerful than the creation in no way says that he is more powerful than the creator. The presence was and has always been in complete control of the DCU. TOAA has always been in control of the MU. He was never replaced. The beyonder is not on thier lvl.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
the beyonder was yet and still, a part of the Marvel U. the minute he appeared, he was part of TOAA's design.
Excatly!
Pre-C Beyodner was the most powerful in his time (by far) and if he wouldn't have been be retconned, he still would be (by far), except for TOAA.
But it was said he had the power of million Multiverses, but that still means even he had limits.
The Presence is a Supreme being and doesn't have limits.
Originally posted by bigbran
You asked for a answer, and he gave it to you, and now your telling him to get on topic?🤨 The Beyonder isn't part of the MU, just like Superman isn't. Beyonder is just in the company.
He got his power from the writer. Who was employed by marvel. Who prints the MU. He was part of marvel and no amount of blah blah will change that fact. You can even use superman becuz superman has NEVER appeared with in the pages of an in continuity marvel publication.
Originally posted by Mr Master
In DC the Presence is SupremeIn Marvel Beyonder was Supreme, now TOAA has taken his place.
It's as simple as that.
On the other hand, if TOAA was the creator of the Marvel Multi-verse during Beyonder's prime,
then Beyonder was FAR more powerful than TOAA ever wished to be.
Beyonder existed because of writers, therefore TOAA. Beyonder is nothing to TOAA.
And was still limited with power of million Mulitverses, The Presence is not.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
the minute he appeared, he was part of TOAA's design. He was part of his plan.
Like ERASING his design, his creation?
yep, I'm sure that's exactly what TOAA's plan was.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The beyonder is NEVER shown being more powerful than TOAA.
I beg to differ.
What was the TOAA greatest feat then?
Creating the Multi-verse, which was EVERYTHING in Marvel.
Beyonder comes along and creates a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion times Bigger than that
"Since the Beyonder's departure there has been UTTER NOTHING"
"A few moments ago, SOMETHING HAPPENED"
"A Portal was Opened from OUR UNIVERSE into the Beyond"
"Molecule Man Opened the Portal, SAVING ALL Existence on HIS SIDE"
Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING a UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean (or 22 Quintillion times BIGGER)
"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets...LIFE Arises"
Evolves and Flourishes, within the NEW UNIVERSE begat (brought into existence) by the Beyonder's Power"
A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
There are 22 QUINTILLION Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography
So, if we compare their greatest feats, who has displayed more power?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He got his power from the writer. Who was employed by marvel. Who prints the MU. He was part of marvel and no amount of blah blah will change that fact. You can even use superman becuz superman has NEVER appeared with in the pages of an in continuity marvel publication.
JLA/AVENGERS doesn't count?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Like ERASING his design, his creation?yep, I'm sure that's exactly what TOAA's plan was.
I beg to differ.
What was the TOAA greatest feat then?
Creating the Multi-verse, which was EVERYTHING in Marvel.
Beyonder comes along and creates a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion times Bigger than that
"Since the Beyonder's departure there has been UTTER NOTHING"
"A few moments ago, SOMETHING HAPPENED""A Portal was Opened from OUR UNIVERSE into the Beyond"
"Molecule Man Opened the Portal, SAVING ALL Existence on HIS SIDE"Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING a UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean (or 22 Quintillion times BIGGER)
"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets...LIFE Arises"Evolves and Flourishes, within the NEW UNIVERSE begat (brought into existence) by the Beyonder's Power"
A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
There are 22 QUINTILLION Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography
So, if we compare their greatest feats, who has displayed more power?
The TOAA has displayed far more power than the beyonder. The beyonder was millions of times stronger than the universe. TOAA created infinite universes without end. And the beyonder actually had to display his limited power, while TOAA is content in his sovereignty. Nothing ever can challenge it. The beyonder gets turned into a pickle by the presence, and he eats him. Period. And if your gonna have the beyonder fight the DCu presence, The DCU had infinite universes. unending wave after wave of realities and universe. You really don't want to play the game of who had greater power. The presence beats the beyonder in time for lunch.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The TOAA has displayed far more power than the beyonder. The beyonder was millions of times stronger than the universe.
Your LIES ain't getting you nowhere my child.
Beyonder is Millions of Times More Powerful than ALL the Rest of the Multiverse Combined.
MILLIONS of Times MORE Powerful than TOAA's greatest creation.
Run along my boy, I think you've had enough.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The TOAA has displayed far more power than the beyonder. TOAA created infinite universes without end.
Beyonder CREATED:
A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
Since you ignored the Incredible Feat, by posting gibberish, here it is again, maybe this time you'l understand,
What was the TOAA GREATEST Feat then?
Creating the MULTI-VERSE, which was EVERYTHING in Marvel.
Beyonder comes along and CREATES a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion times Bigger than that
"Since the Beyonder's departure there has been UTTER NOTHING"
"A few moments ago, SOMETHING HAPPENED"
"A Portal was Opened from OUR UNIVERSE into the Beyond"
"Molecule Man Opened the Portal, SAVING ALL Existence on HIS SIDE"
Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING a UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean (or 22 Quintillion times BIGGER)
"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets...LIFE Arises"
Evolves and Flourishes, within the NEW UNIVERSE begat (brought into existence) by the Beyonder's Power"
A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
There are 22 QUINTILLION Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography
Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder CREATED:A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
Since you ignored the Incredible Feat, by posting gibberish, here it is again, maybe this time you'l understand,
What was the TOAA GREATEST Feat then?
Creating the MULTI-VERSE, which was EVERYTHING in Marvel.
Beyonder comes along and CREATES a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion times Bigger than that
"Since the Beyonder's departure there has been UTTER NOTHING"
"A few moments ago, SOMETHING HAPPENED""A Portal was Opened from OUR UNIVERSE into the Beyond"
"Molecule Man Opened the Portal, SAVING ALL Existence on HIS SIDE"Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING a UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean (or 22 Quintillion times BIGGER)
"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets...LIFE Arises"Evolves and Flourishes, within the NEW UNIVERSE begat (brought into existence) by the Beyonder's Power"
A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
There are 22 QUINTILLION Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography
P-R Beyonder still came from TOAA domain.
Originally posted by Mr Master
He thought he couldn't bring her back, the misconception going around is, that it was an issue of power, butBeyonder was examining the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse
"It'll take some preparation and detailing afterward...but I can do it...EASILY!
"Once it's done, it's FOREVER"Beyonder realized that Death cannot be created when he checked the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse, but it was NOW he understood the Concept can only come into being by the Death of another
ONLY Beyonder was able to figure this out, ONLY Beyonder was able to Kill Dave, so that Death can arise anew (hence Re-Creating Death)Even in real world religion, there was no Death, until Adam died, Death can be paused or erased, but Not created, because it is a concept.
You scans seem to go one way and then the other. First he says he can do it easily (after some prep and detailing, unlike the snap of a finger it took Living Tribunal to RECREATE the abstracts after Adam Warlock blew them to the weeds.) and then he says "I--I suppose I could try! Maybe if someone...some sentient creature were willing..." He not only seems uncertain, but to require outside assistance.
Also, while Beyonder said he restricted his power when interacting with Earth heroes I don't see him restricting himself when interacting with the abstracts.
All of the Abstracts are the embodiments of concepts: Eternity/Time, Infinity/Space, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Death...
"Warlock obliterates the hierarchy" of abstracts. LT allows him to do that. And then with a snap of his fingers he "recreates the Abstracts".
But when it was only one being threatened? Eternity's reason for calling the conference. LT only said that it was the way of things.
Likewise,when the Beyonder only obliterated *one* of the multi-abstracts? LT again does nothing and says that thus passeth the old ways. If Beyonder had instead destroyed them all and even LT couldn't resist or stop him then we could reasonably say that Beyonder was beyond the LT, until then we have two incidents were a single abstract was threatened/destroyed and LT did nothing but figuratively said 'oh, well'.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Like ERASING his design, his creation?yep, I'm sure that's exactly what TOAA's plan was.
Like Cain killing Able? Or Adam and Eve introducing the concept of Death? Bad stuff happens. And on top of that Death was re-introduced. It would've know that. Omniscience does come in handy doesn't it?
Originally posted by Mr Master
I beg to differ.What was the TOAA greatest feat then?
Creating the Multi-verse, which was EVERYTHING in Marvel.
Beyonder comes along and creates a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion times Bigger than that
But still a mere universe. Universal < Multiversal. Death's M-body is normally a tiny thing compared to a Celestial but who's more powerful. What does size matter? LT and Eternity normally manifest as the same size but who is more powerful.
And the Beyonder had to become his universe. TOAA (Going by the assumption that TOAA = Presence) created the multiverse.
