Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?
Originally posted by Regret
You do not believe that anyone can aid you in doing what you have difficulty doing, or find impossible to do yourself? Buddhists from what you have stated are rather arrogant individuals. Everyone should be aware of their shortcomings and allow others to aid them when possible and available. Expectation has nothing to do with it. If someone offers aid, you should allow them to do so, it will make the journey that much easier. Would you rather deny them the opportunity to act for the benefit of others?Also, fact of this existence, people are not equal. Some people are more competant or capable than others in various aspects than others. Everyone can be aided by someone else.
Christianity teaches that faith without works is dead and that salvation is based on faith. Regardless of how you interpret the scripture you are not saved if the works are not present.
According to the Buddha, man himself is the maker of his own destiny. He has none to blame for his lot since he alone is responsible for his own life. He makes his own life for better or for worse.
The Buddha says: man creates everything. All our griefs, perils and misfortunes are of our own creation. We spring from no other source than our own imperfection of heart and mind. We are the results of our good and bad actions committed in the past under the influence of greed and delusion. And since we ourselves brought them into being, it is within our power to overcome bad effects and cultivate good natures. This is not arrogance. This is truly called the works of faith or strong confidence which plays an important part in every aspect of man's life.
Achieving salvation can be compared to curing a disease: if one is ill, one must go to a doctor. The doctor diagnose the ailment and prescribes medicine. The medicine must be taken by the person himself. He cannot depute someone else to take the medicine for him. No one can be cured by simply admiring the medicine or just praising the doctor for his good prescription.
In order to be cured, he himself must faithfully follow the instructions given by the doctor with regard to the manner and frequency in taking his medicine, his daily diet and other relevant medical restraints. Likewise, a person must follow the precepts, instructions or advice given by the Buddha (who gives prescriptions for liberation)by controlling or subduing one's greed, hatred and ignorance. No one can find salvation by simply singing praises of the Buddha or by making offerings to Him. The same argument for the Christians can one find salvation by simply honouring and praising Christ's name. This is not so.
Knowing that no external sources, no faith or rituals can save him, the Buddhist feels the need to rely on his own efforts. He gains confidence through self-reliance. He realizes that the whole responsibility of his present life as well as his future life depends completely on himself alone. Each must seek salvation for himself.
This is an oversimplification of Christian belief, accurate to those that only mildly or arrogantly study the teachings in the Bible. All actions have consequences according to Christian belief. We believe in consequences that are external as well as internal. Christ took upon himself the external consequences, the internal consequences must be resolved before the external consequence can be requested to be removed from us (in other words forgiveness granted.) The internal consequences are the increased probability of action that is not in harmony with behavior in line with a heavenly state, the guilt associated with a knowledge of the harm the action caused to others or ourselves, etc. These must be taken care of before forgiveness can truly take place. The external consequences are the requirements of justice, the egg falls and it breaks. External consequences exist. It seems, in my communications with Buddhists, that many Buddhists ignore or deny the external consequences of action and focus too heavily on only the internal consequences. They deny responsibility to those outside themselves in their pursuit of enlightenment. If any action you do causes any negative feeling, external consequence, etc. you must satisfy the laws governing that action, be the laws natural, governmental, familial, etc. If by your action a person feels less, you are further from harmony with the state that is enlightenment/heaven. External consequences can be mediated externally, but it requires acceptance of mediation, this is repentance and forgiveness.
According to Shakyamuni Buddha: “If a person commits an act of good or evil, he him-self becomes the heir to that action. This is because that action actually never disappears (Udana).”
Once committed, any human action, whether good or bad, does not simply vanish into the past with time. Each act remains in one’s life at the present as a potential force or energy, influencing the course of one’s existence from the point of that action forward. In this sense, rather than simply viewing karma as “action,” it may be more appropriate to think of it as action plus that action’s potential influence on one’s life. Or, in simpler terms, karma may be seen as life’s ingrained habits, leanings or tendencies—actions that tend to repeat themselves, or that we tend to repeat.
Buddhism teaches of the eternal or unending nature of life as a cycle of birth and death. So when people speak of “past karma,” they really mean the present influence on one’s life of actions taken in the past (in past lives). Buddhism also teaches that actions (karma) can be either good or bad; good actions (good karma) give rise to happy, positive effects, and bad actions (bad karma) give rise to unhappy, negative effects.
Further, some actions yield specific results that will appear at a set time—this is known as fixed or immutable karma. Other actions yield results that are not set or specific in their nature or timing—this is non-fixed or mutable karma. Immutable karma is often used to describe a person’s life span, because the time of one’s death is viewed in Buddhism as fixed or set by the influence of past karma.
While human beings cannot avoid the results of their actions in past lives, Buddhism does not teach that we should simply resign ourselves to the effects of karma, be they good or bad. Submission to fate, to “one’s lot in life” or to some will outside our own is NOT a correct for Buddhist view . Rather, Buddhism is correctly understood as a forward-looking, empowering teaching that stresses personal responsibility and hope. “If I am the one who made myself what I am today, then I am the one who will create the ‘me’ of the future,” is the ideal attitude of life and such for Buddhists.
Karma, then, does not so much apply to our circumstances as to our thoughts, words and deeds. Things do not happen to us, we make them happe or we act in a habitual way when they do happen that leads us to habitual situations. We made what we are and experience now, and we are at this moment making what we will be and experience in the future. That is karma. So to change karma means to change our lives right now; that is, the way we think, speak and do things. The best way to positively transform the effects of our past bad karma, enjoy the effects of past good karma, and create good karma for the future is to inform our actions with fresh life force and wisdom.
The Law of Karma, or causality, is far makes sense to modern man than the idea that everything and ultimately is up to god.
Originally posted by peejaydNever does scripture state "God is only a Spirit", so no change occurs if he has a physical form.
* God limits Himself..."Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change."
James 1:17* the Father cannot change Himself...
"Before the mountains were brought forth, and thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from eternity to eternity thou art God."
Psalms 90:2* from eternity to eternity, God is God... 😉
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?
Originally posted by mahasattvaI will not respond further as you have ignored many of my statements and disregard them due to your preconceptions as to Christian belief, as well as your preconceptions as to the differences between Buddhism and Christianity. Yes, mainstream Christianity does have many of the flaws you cite, but the Bible does not necessitate these flaws, many Christians interpret these things in this manner, but such is not necessarily true given the text.
According to...
Yes, I believe many Buddhists must be arrogant, a belief I have taken from your posts.
I believe that there are a great many similarities between Christianity and Buddhism. I believe that you have an issue with an accurate comparison. Your preconceptions and your stubborn inability to accept that things are not always in line with your view of them is the only things that hold you back from properly understanding these things. Christianity has a broad range of beliefs as to the nature of the religion, your preconceptions are true for a majority of Christian beliefs, but not all Christian beliefs.
I believe you are in error. No one can achieve enlightenment alone, without the aid of others. Even the Buddha was unable to achieve enlightenment without the presence of others. Had the woman not saved him from drowning, he would not have come to an understanding of moderation. Had his father not attempted to keep him from death the sight of age, sickness, and death would have Had no impact on him. The Buddha never would have understood the import of the pillars Had others not acted upon him.
Originally posted by Regret
Never does scripture state "God is only a Spirit", so no change occurs if he has a physical form.
* so, i will be the one to say it - God is ONLY a spirit... in John 4:24, Christ revealed that the Father is a spirit... in Psalms 90:2, from eternity to eternity, God is still God, God is a spirit from eternity to eternity... and in James 1:17, God will not change, the proclamations are pretty absolute, my friend... 😉
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I surmise that what you are doing is confusing the spirit aspect of man's three-fold nature with his physical side. We are spirits but we inhabit physical bodies. This is what you miserably fail to grasp.
* i believe what is written in the Bible, human beings have a body, spirit and soul... soul, being the totality of a human being, can be both physical and spiritual... never did the Bible tells us that human beings are spirits because Jesus says spirits do not have flesh and bones... since human beings have flesh and bones, human beings are not spirits... if you believe in man's three-fold nature, you will not say that human beings are spirits, it is unsound and illogical and most of all, unbiblical...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus was talking about His physical body here after He had risen from the dead. But on the inside of Jesus' physical body is the real Jesus, a Spirit just like you, me, and everyone else. The spirit aspect of our three-fold nature is the life source as it were. Once the spirit and soul leaves the body, the body dies.
* of course, Jesus was talking about His physical body... Jesus' physical body is human, FYI... and what did Jesus told His disciples about His human body? it is not spirit... can't you understand that?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Spirits don't have flesh and bones, but Jesus is not referring to the real Him, He is talking about His physcial body. Jesus is referrencing His physical body to impress upon the mind of his disciples that He has been physically resurrected from the dead so that they don't think that they are seeing a spirit of Jesus.
* oh my goodness... you are very stubborn... of course, Jesus was talking about His physical body... Jesus' physical body is human, FYI... and what did Jesus told His disciples about His human body? it is not spirit... can't you understand that?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend. We are spirits, we have souls, and we live in a physical body. Your body is not the real you, it is only the house that the inner man (i.e. the spirit, the real you) occupies, lives in, and takes up residence in.
* my body is not the real me... a blatant misinterpretation... care to tell it to Adam?
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7
* the first human being was formed by God from the dust of ground... even Job understood this and see how he repented...
"Therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."
Job 42:6
* if you believe in man's three-fold nature, do not exclude the physical body...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible did say so but you denied, ignored, and refused to believe it when I showed you the Scriptures.
* the story of Ananias and Sapphira... you showed great blatant self-conclusions there... Acts 5:3-4 never tells us that the Holy Spirit is God...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have provided ample (way more than you needed) Scriptures that prove incontrovertibly that the Holy Spirit (i.e. the third Person of the Godhead) is God, but you choose not to believe this.
* first off, you gave the verse, but the verse did not say anything like your conclusion... next, you cannot refute the fact in Ephesians 4:30 that the Holy Spirit is of God... and NOT God...
* you cannot even answer my question, the Bible commanded to worship God... the Father and Christ are both Gods and the Bible revealed both of them should be worshipped... but the Bible never tells us to worship the Holy Spirit, wonder why?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are sadly mistaken or deluded. Your works don't save you. I have provided more than enough Scriptures to validated this and once again you choose not to believe this either.
* hypocrite... you are like a Jew in Jesus' time... the Scriptures tells us on what basis we shall be judged...
"I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter;
For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matthew 12:36-37
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done."
Revelation 20:12-13
* God is not unrighteous and not unjust to overlook these things...
"For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do."
Hebrews 6:10
* i just hope you realize that...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have no pre-concluded ideas. I support everything that I say with the Bible. I have been doing this since the inception of my posts here at KMC.
* you can tell it to the marines...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Man, you really need to just let go of your attempts at teaching the Bible because you don't have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of you to teach you. I can tell that you don't.
* oh really? don't make me laugh...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Eyes of the people? This is not talking about people seeing God. Stephen is recounting the incident where the Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses (not people) in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
* if you have enough logic left in you, this revelation of Saint Stephen is very essential to prove the accuracy of the statement made by Christ - no man has ever seen God, at ANY time...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There are people in Heaven right now who see God so the whole "no man has ever seen God" notion is false. What no man is able to see is the face of God because the glory of God is so bright (the apostle Paul refers to it as unapproachable light). No person can look upon God's face and live. You must understand that when God told Moses that he could not see Him and live, that He (i.e. God) was referring to His face.
* are you an anti-Christ? you are blatantly contradicting Christ's statements...
"No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man."
John 3:13
* oh my...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No person on this planet has ever seen the face of God, but there are those alive who have seen God.
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Genesis 32:30
* the people of God in the Old Testament knows they have seen God, even God's face... but it was not true, what they have seen was an angel...
"He was still speaking, when lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."
Matthew 17:5
* the Father said that we should listen to Christ, and Christ said that no man has ever seen God at any time and no man had ascended in heaven, only Christ Himself...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There are plenty of people on this planet who have seen God. But no person has ever seen God's face. The light that issues and radiates from the Father is so intense that no one can look upon God the Father's face and live. That is why the Lord God showed Moses, his brother Aaron, Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel His feet. One one occasion God the Father showed Moses His back. The prophet Isaiah saw the Lord sitting on a throne high and lifted up, and the apostle John saw the Lord sitting on His throne as well. What these men did not see, however, was the face of God.
* you blatantly contradict Christ's statement... the people in the Old Testament saw an angel of God and NOT God Himself...
"Who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."
I Timothy 6:16
"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;"
Colossians 1:15
* you also contradict the teachings of Saint Paul... 😉
My response to peejayd part 1
* i believe what is written in the Bible, human beings have a body, spirit and soul... soul, being the totality of a human being, can be both physical and spiritual... never did the Bible tells us that human beings are spirits because Jesus says spirits do not have flesh and bones... since human beings have flesh and bones, human beings are not spirits... if you believe in man's three-fold nature, you will not say that human beings are spirits, it is unsound and illogical and most of all, unbiblical...
Peejayd, why do you not understand the Bible? Because you are not able to listen to the Word of God. I do not believe that you are a child of God peejayd. I think that this is why there is such a spiritual deficiency in terms of your ability to comprehend what I am telling you. I have never in all of my life had to keep reiterating the same information over and over and over to someone and then that person still reply to me with the same fallacious, erroneous, statements. Peejayd get born again then you will understand what I am talking about. Because at the moment we are on two separate wavelengths. Using radio transmission to illustrate my point it is as you are on AM and I am on FM. You cannot hear and understand a broadcast on both bands at the same time, on the same radio. You must have your setting on either FM or AM. Similarly, it is like I am on FM and you are on AM and we are both trying to communicate, hear, and understand each other. I am born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but you are not born again nor are you indwelt by the Holy Spirit. However, the difference is I understand what your problem is but you cannot see it. I am on the outside looking in at you. I see all your issues, difficulties, and hang ups with respect to understanding the Bible. What I say does not make sense to you because you are not born again. How many times I have stated that you are a spirit, you have a soul, and you (the real you which is a spirit) lives in a body? I have told you this for months and yet you still say inane things like,
"...never did the Bible tells us that human beings are spirits because Jesus says spirits do not have flesh and bones... since human beings have flesh and bones, human beings are not spirits... if you believe in man's three-fold nature, you will not say that human beings are spirits...."
I already explained to you countless times why Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones--because spirits are not composed of flesh. But Jesus drew His disciples attention to the fact that He (i.e. His physical body) had been resurrected so that they would not thing that they were seeing Jesus' Spirit. Spirit's do not have flesh and bones peejayd, I know this for the umpteenth time. The human body is inhabited by the spirit and soul peejayd, this is what gives life to the physical body. A body can have blood but without the spirit and soul it is dead. You are a spirit and the real you presently dwells inside of your body along with the soul. This is all there is to it. Why are you incapable of comprehending this? I believe it is because you are not born again. You are just as unregenerate as Nicodemus. Jesus told Nicodemus that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus was not born again so he was not capable (just like you peejayd) of understanding the spiritual import of what Jesus meant by being born again. So automatically (almost as if by default) Nicodemus's mind begin to try and grasp or interpret what Jesus said to him from a natural point of view. This is exactly what you do every time I mention spiritual things to you. Here Nicodemus' response to Jesus was,
John 3:4
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus was talking about being born again "spiritually" but Nicodemus (who I think represents you in terms of your inability to comprehend spiritual things) started to relate what Jesus said and meant in "natural" terms. Jesus expounded what He meant by being born again to Nicodemus. Here it is,
John 3:5-8
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Jesus just got done elucidating and explaining what He meant by being born again and here is what Nicodemus said in response:
John 3:9-10
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
The man was just like you are now peejayd: unregenerate and in need of being born again. This is why you can't comprehend what I teach as plain as I make it, you still don't get it. I submit to you that this is the problem.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I have quoted this Scripture to you before peejayd. Your complete nature is three-fold. You are a spirit (this is the part of you that is created in the image and likeness of God), you have a soul (which is your mind, will, emotions, and personality), and you live in a body.
* of course, Jesus was talking about His physical body... Jesus' physical body is human, FYI... and what did Jesus told His disciples about His human body? it is not spirit... can't you understand that?
I am going to talk to you just like Jesus talked to Nicodemus since you share his incapacity (spiritually speaking).
John 3:5-8
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Of course I understand that Jesus physical body is not spirit. But when Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones, He was referring specifically to His physical body. He was not trying convey to His disciples anything other than this fact so that they would not be think that they were seeing a spirit. But if Jesus were on the subject of man's complete nature then He would have told them thaty He was a Spirit, that He had a soul, and that the two inhabit His physical body.
* oh my goodness... you are very stubborn... of course, Jesus was talking about His physical body... Jesus' physical body is human, FYI... and what did Jesus told His disciples about His human body? it is not spirit... can't you understand that?
I just answered that in the above paragraph.
* my body is not the real me... a blatant misinterpretation... care to tell it to Adam?
Peejayd, when Jesus died on the cross the Bible states that His soul was not left in Hades. Jesus Christ body was physically in the rich man's brand new tomb. But His spirit and soul was in Hades (i.e. Hell). The real Jesus is a Spirit, but in order to live on this planet, Jesus needed a physical body. Jesus needed a physical body so that He could offer it up as a Lamb without spot or blemish, for our salvation from sin. The Bible states that the wages of sin is death (first spiritual then physical). Can you see this now? I don't expect you to understand this until you get born again.
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7
* the first human being was formed by God from the dust of ground... even Job understood this and see how he repented...
"Therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."
Job 42:6
* if you believe in man's three-fold nature, do not exclude the physical body...
What on God' green earth gave you the impression that I have excluded 1/3 of man's three-fold nature? I have been telling you since time immemorial that we are spirits, we have a soul, and we live in a physical body. I think what trips you up is the fact that I list the spirit aspect (which is 1/3 of man's total nature) first, and then I mention the body last. I do this because that is the order that the Bible listed them in 1 Thessalonians 5:23. But I know and recognize that while I am typing this post right this minute that I am sitting here in my physical body. But I do not say that I am a physical body, because I am a spirit, I (the real me, the inner man) just live in a physical body. I can contact my earthly environment around me in my body (because that is what the physical body is for). But if I should die before Jesus Christ catches away His church, then my spirit (the real me) and soul (i.e. mind, will, emotions, and personality) will separate/depart from my physical body and be escorted by the angels of God into Heaven. But my physical body will be placed into a coffin (or cremated) and place into to the ground for burial.
My response to peejayd part 2
Can you see this now?
* the story of Ananias and Sapphira... you showed great blatant self-conclusions there... Acts 5:3-4 never tells us that the Holy Spirit is God...
The Holy Spirit is God and yes that verse does state that the Holy Spirit is God. I have said once before peejayd that the apostle Peter did not have to even mention the Holy Spirit. Peter could have simply said,
Acts 5:3-4
“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to God and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
Can you see this JesusIsAlive version of Acts 5:3-4? I omitted the Name, "Holy Spirit" in His place inserted the word "God" so that you could see that this is all Peter would have had to do. But Peter didn't do that. I have told you this once before peejayd that God the Father has given us so many clues in His Word about Himself, the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Heaven, Hell, and just the things of God in general. God intends for us to study His Word so that we can put all of this clues together to get the complete revelation that He wants us to have. One such clue is the fact that Peter told Ananias satan had filled his heart to lie to the Holy Spirit. Then in the conclusion of his statement to Ananias Peter revealed that Ananias had not lied to men but to God. But I thought that he lied to the Holy Spirit? Peejayd, the Holy Spirit is God. 🙂 God is one but manifested as Father, Son, Holy Spirit. For the umpteenth time that's Who God is: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. This is Who God is. Well what is God? God is a Spirit.
* first off, you gave the verse, but the verse did not say anything like your conclusion... next, you cannot refute the fact in Ephesians 4:30 that the Holy Spirit is of God... and NOT God...
I don't need to because the Holy Spirit is God. Here check out this link:
http://www.theholyspirit.com/HolySpiritPerson.asp
http://www.theholyspirit.com/faq1/default.asp?c=19
http://www.theholyspirit.com/HolySpiritTrinity.asp
* you cannot even answer my question, the Bible commanded to worship God... the Father and Christ are both Gods and the Bible revealed both of them should be worshipped... but the Bible never tells us to worship the Holy Spirit, wonder why?
No the Father and the Son Jesus are not "Gods" they are one God peejayd. They are Persons Who constitute one God not Gods. This is polytheism. The Father, Son Jesus, and Holy Spirit are not Gods either, they are God--one God--but manifested as three divine Persons.
but the Bible never tells us to worship the Holy Spirit, wonder why?
This is a moot question. The Holy Spirit is God and we are instructed to worship God. No one can even say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
* hypocrite... you are like a Jew in Jesus' time... the Scriptures tells us on what basis we shall be judged...
"I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter;
For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matthew 12:36-37
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done."
Revelation 20:12-13
* God is not unrighteous and not unjust to overlook these things...
"For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do."
Hebrews 6:10
* i just hope you realize that...
You are taking Scriptures out of context. And I notice that you use Scriptures that I furnished first in an effort to bolster your argument. But you are not using the Scriptures appropriately to support your case. The Bible talks about God not being unjust to forget our work and labor love which we have shown toward His Name, in that we have ministered to the saints and do minister. The Lord reveals this to us to encourage us to keep on keeping on. This does not have any thing at all to do with the Judgment described in Revelation 20:12-13. This Judgment in Revelation is for those who do not know Jesus Christ (i.e. those who are not saved). Their deeds have been recorded in books and those books will be opened at the Judgment as a means whereby God will judge those whose names have not been written in the Lamb's Book of Life. This Judgment hasn't got a thing in the world to do with receiving rewards from God. This Judgment is strictly for sinners/unbelievers.
Now, on the subject of works let me expound this for you. Once we have confessed Jesus Christ as Lord at that moment we are saved. Every work that we do from that moment forward is either a reward or a loss of reward. Our works have absolutely nothing to do with our salvation once we are saved. On the other hand, if we are not saved then our works will be used to commensurately determine our degree of punishment in the lake of fire in proportion to our works or sins.
* you can tell it to the marines...
It is the truth.
* oh really? don't make me laugh...
Yes, really, you don't have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of you if you did you would have no problem understanding what I say. Furthermore, any person who is genuinely saved knows that the Holy Spirit is living on the inside of them and have no problem admitting this. You can't admit this because you are not saved.
* if you have enough logic left in you, this revelation of Saint Stephen is very essential to prove the accuracy of the statement made by Christ - no man has ever seen God, at ANY time...
Exodus 33:20, 23
But He [i.e. the Lord] said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”
Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.”
God equates seeing His face with seeing Him. So when God says that no man can see Him and live you must revert to the premise that God refers to as He qualifies what He means by seeing Him. He is talking about His face. If just seeing God was lethal then God would not have had to say anything about seeing His face (which He mentions twice).
Isaiah 6:1-4
1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said:
“ Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts;
The whole earth is full of His glory!”
4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke.
Isaiah the prophet saw the Lord, but I do not believe that He saw the Lord's face.
Ezekiel 1:27-28
26 And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it.
27 Also from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw, as it were, the color of amber with the appearance of fire all around within it; and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.
Ezekiel saw the Lord and His glory, but I he did not see His face.
Daniel 7:9-14
9 “ I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.
11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
13 “ I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
My response to peejayd part 3
Daniel the prophet Saw the Lord Jesus and the Father God. But I do not believe that He saw their faces.
* are you an anti-Christ? you are blatantly contradicting Christ's statements...
No I am saved, sanctified, filled with Holy Spirit, and on my way to Heaven. A true believer has no trouble admitting this. Can you say this with confidence? No, you cannot because you do not belong to Christ. But you can.
"No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man."
John 3:13
* oh my...
Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Enoch, Elijah, and all of the other Old Testament people of God are in Heaven right now.
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Genesis 32:30
* the people of God in the Old Testament knows they have seen God, even God's face... but it was not true, what they have seen was an angel...
I already said that no man can see God's face and live.
"He was still speaking, when lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."
Matthew 17:5
* the Father said that we should listen to Christ, and Christ said that no man has ever seen God at any time and no man had ascended in heaven, only Christ Himself...
No man has seen God meaning God's face. I already qualified what this means.
* you blatantly contradict Christ's statement... the people in the Old Testament saw an angel of God and NOT God Himself...
None of the people that I mentioned (in the verses that I quoted) saw an angel on those particular occasions, they saw God. They either saw His feet, hands, back, or glory but never His face.
"Who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."
I Timothy 6:16
"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;"
Colossians 1:15
* you also contradict the teachings of Saint Paul... 😉
Jesus Christ is the physical image (or expression/manifestation) of the invisible God (God is a Spirit and spirits are invisible to the naked eye. God is a Spirit and He lives in the spirit world, thus relative to us He is invisible. We are only able to see God or things that are in the spirit world if God permits us to. Elisha the prophet (Elijah's successor) prayed for God to open his servants eyes once. God did it and the servant saw horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
2 Kings 6:15-17
15 And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”
16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
The Lord God could permit and enable us to see Him in a vision as He did with Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel among others. Furthermore, the Lord could even take us to Heaven like He did with Enoch, Elijah, and the apostle Paul. Paul saw God but Paul did not see the Lord's face because the light was too bright. That is why Paul states that God dwells in unapproachable light.
Originally posted by debbiejo
JIA and Peejayd sitting in a tree K I S S I N G........FIRST comes marriage........oh, blah blah blah.........baby carriage.
How that could occur in the middle of a schism I don't know.
And sigh - why have you started posting like Marcello JIA? Regardless of ones religious standing at least you posts were contained before.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
How that could occur in the middle of a schism I don't know.And sigh - why have you started posting like Marcello JIA? Regardless of ones religious standing at least you posts were contained before.
I don't have enough time to copy and past each of peejayd's statments. It is just easier to respond to his post within his quote. I have done the same thing with recently with your posts pal. How are you doing by the way?
Originally posted by Regret
Which is the crux, you and those claiming such an interpretation are the ones saying it, not the Bible.
* even if i did say it, it is also Biblical... the Bible says God is a spirit (John 4:24), He is God from eternity to eternity (Psalms 90:2) and He cannot change (James 1:17)... i really am astounded that you cannot accept that fact...
* the one spewing unbiblical doctrines is you, my friend... nowhere in the Bible that God is not a spirit and can change or have a physical body... if so, prove it according to the Bible... 😉
* oh my... another long, boring and irrelevant posts...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Peejayd, why do you not understand the Bible? Because you are not able to listen to the Word of God. I do not believe that you are a child of God peejayd. I think that this is why there is such a spiritual deficiency in terms of your ability to comprehend what I am telling you. I have never in all of my life had to keep reiterating the same information over and over and over to someone and then that person still reply to me with the same fallacious, erroneous, statements. Peejayd get born again then you will understand what I am talking about. Because at the moment we are on two separate wavelengths. Using radio transmission to illustrate my point it is as you are on AM and I am on FM. You cannot hear and understand a broadcast on both bands at the same time, on the same radio. You must have your setting on either FM or AM. Similarly, it is like I am on FM and you are on AM and we are both trying to communicate, hear, and understand each other. I am born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but you are not born again nor are you indwelt by the Holy Spirit. However, the difference is I understand what your problem is but you cannot see it. I am on the outside looking in at you. I see all your issues, difficulties, and hang ups with respect to understanding the Bible. What I say does not make sense to you because you are not born again. How many times I have stated that you are a spirit, you have a soul, and you (the real you which is a spirit) lives in a body? I have told you this for months and yet you still say inane things like,
* you, my friend, are exposing your true colors - a hypocrite... just because you cannot refute the clear fact i post, you spew stupid things like i'm not born again, i'm not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, etc... you think you're perfect? heck, just refute my post! stop getting personal... we are discussing the our beliefs and here you are always getting personal... you know what? i believe, in the manner you reply to my posts, you are the one not indwelt by the Holy Spirit... you are blinded by the unbiblical doctrines you worship...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive I already explained to you countless times why Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones--because spirits are not composed of flesh. But Jesus drew His disciples attention to the fact that He (i.e. His physical body) had been resurrected so that they would not thing that they were seeing Jesus' Spirit. Spirit's do not have flesh and bones peejayd, I know this for the umpteenth time. The human body is inhabited by the spirit and soul peejayd, this is what gives life to the physical body. A body can have blood but without the spirit and soul it is dead. You are a spirit and the real you presently dwells inside of your body along with the soul. This is all there is to it. Why are you incapable of comprehending this? I believe it is because you are not born again. You are just as unregenerate as Nicodemus. Jesus told Nicodemus that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus was not born again so he was not capable (just like you peejayd) of understanding the spiritual import of what Jesus meant by being born again. So automatically (almost as if by default) Nicodemus's mind begin to try and grasp or interpret what Jesus said to him from a natural point of view. This is exactly what you do every time I mention spiritual things to you. Here Nicodemus' response to Jesus was,
* you are way out of the logic's line, kiddo... read my posts very carefully, try to reach that fake spirit in you... the resurrection of Jesus is physical, and the one that died and resurrected was the body of Jesus...
"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Hebrews 10:10
* and because of that, Jesus clearly says a spirit does not have flesh and bones like the one the apostles are seeing... and what did the apostles saw? the physical body of Jesus... read Luke 24:39... now, humans have flesh and bones and since humans have this, humans are NOT spirits... if you have enough knowledge and wisdom given by your fake "holy" spirit, then i hope you understand the simple fact i was trying to tell you... your belief is stupid and stubborn...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Of course I understand that Jesus physical body is not spirit.
* bingo! you hypocrite... that's my point and yet you still cling to your stupid stubborn belief? sheesh... hypocrites... sigh...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive But when Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones, He was referring specifically to His physical body. He was not trying convey to His disciples anything other than this fact so that they would not be think that they were seeing a spirit. But if Jesus were on the subject of man's complete nature then He would have told them thaty He was a Spirit, that He had a soul, and that the two inhabit His physical body.
* oh, and what do we have here? it was the physical body that was not a spirit, because it has flesh and bones! oh, man... i really question your Biblical comprehension...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Peejayd, when Jesus died on the cross the Bible states that His soul was not left in Hades. Jesus Christ body was physically in the rich man's brand new tomb. But His spirit and soul was in Hades (i.e. Hell). The real Jesus is a Spirit, but in order to live on this planet, Jesus needed a physical body. Jesus needed a physical body so that He could offer it up as a Lamb without spot or blemish, for our salvation from sin. The Bible states that the wages of sin is death (first spiritual then physical). Can you see this now? I don't expect you to understand this until you get born again.
* sigh... i understand more than you think... and i understand the Bible more than you do...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive What on God' green earth gave you the impression that I have excluded 1/3 of man's three-fold nature? I have been telling you since time immemorial that we are spirits, we have a soul, and we live in a physical body. I think what trips you up is the fact that I list the spirit aspect (which is 1/3 of man's total nature) first, and then I mention the body last. I do this because that is the order that the Bible listed them in 1 Thessalonians 5:23. But I know and recognize that while I am typing this post right this minute that I am sitting here in my physical body. But I do not say that I am a physical body, because I am a spirit, I (the real me, the inner man) just live in a physical body. I can contact my earthly environment around me in my body (because that is what the physical body is for). But if I should die before Jesus Christ catches away His church, then my spirit (the real me) and soul (i.e. mind, will, emotions, and personality) will separate/depart from my physical body and be escorted by the angels of God into Heaven. But my physical body will be placed into a coffin (or cremated) and place into to the ground for burial.
* you just said, "your body is not the real you", kiddo... the three-fold nature comprises of the body, soul and spirit... you are ignorant of what you're saying... please compose yourself...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive The Holy Spirit is God and yes that verse does state that the Holy Spirit is God. I have said once before peejayd that the apostle Peter did not have to even mention the Holy Spirit. Peter could have simply said,Acts 5:3-4
“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to God and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”Can you see this JesusIsAlive version of Acts 5:3-4? I omitted the Name, "Holy Spirit" in His place inserted the word "God" so that you could see that this is all Peter would have had to do.
* and it is a violation according to the Bible... who are you to omit and replace words in the Bible? because you are born again? sigh... hypocrite... 😉
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive But Peter didn't do that. I have told you this once before peejayd that God the Father has given us so many clues in His Word about Himself, the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Heaven, Hell, and just the things of God in general. God intends for us to study His Word so that we can put all of this clues together to get the complete revelation that He wants us to have. One such clue is the fact that Peter told Ananias satan had filled his heart to lie to the Holy Spirit. Then in the conclusion of his statement to Ananias Peter revealed that Ananias had not lied to men but to God. But I thought that he lied to the Holy Spirit? Peejayd, the Holy Spirit is God. God is one but manifested as Father, Son, Holy Spirit. For the umpteenth time that's Who God is: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. This is Who God is. Well what is God? God is a Spirit.This is a moot question. The Holy Spirit is God and we are instructed to worship God. No one can even say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
* and that is a moot answer... anyone can say that Jesus is Lord but not all are worthy...
"Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Matthew 7:21
* i'm very shocked to see that someone who claims to have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him did not understand this verse...
* now, can you please give a Bible verse that tells us word-for-word that the Holy Spirit is God? or even a God? if you can't, sorry, your belief is unbiblical...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Now, on the subject of works let me expound this for you. Once we have confessed Jesus Christ as Lord at that moment we are saved.
* this is stupid... a typical statement of a hypocrite...
"And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."
Matthew 10:22
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Every work that we do from that moment forward is either a reward or a loss of reward. Our works have absolutely nothing to do with our salvation once we are saved. On the other hand, if we are not saved then our works will be used to commensurately determine our degree of punishment in the lake of fire in proportion to our works or sins.
* faith alone cannot save a person... that's why Saint Peter teaches us ways to supplement the faith... the true faith, not yours...
"For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
And knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
And godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
II Peter 1:5-8
* and God created the Christians in Christ to walk in those things...
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
Ephesians 2:10
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Yes, really, you don't have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of you if you did you would have no problem understanding what I say. Furthermore, any person who is genuinely saved knows that the Holy Spirit is living on the inside of them and have no problem admitting this. You can't admit this because you are not saved.
* nobody is saved yet, stupid...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive No I am saved, sanctified, filled with Holy Spirit, and on my way to Heaven. A true believer has no trouble admitting this. Can you say this with confidence? No, you cannot because you do not belong to Christ. But you can.
* i believe now that you really are a nutcase... i can say that by the grace of God, i WILL be saved... but now, nobody is saved yet... give proofs according to the Bible that there are saved persons NOW...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Enoch, Elijah, and all of the other Old Testament people of God are in Heaven right now.
* wrong...
"By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he received approval as righteous, God bearing witness by accepting his gifts; he died, but through his faith he is still speaking.
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God.
And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, took heed and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; by this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness which comes by faith.
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go.
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise.
For he looked forward to the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised."
Hebrews 11:4-11
* Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, etc... these people of God are not yet in heaven...
"These all died in faith, not having received what was promised, but having seen it and greeted it from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth."
Hebrews 11:13
* see that?
"For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."
I Thessalonians 4:14-17
* the ascension to heaven, together with those holy people who were dead, will occur when Christ returns...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive The Lord God could permit and enable us to see Him in a vision as He did with Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel among others. Furthermore, the Lord could even take us to Heaven like He did with Enoch, Elijah, and the apostle Paul. Paul saw God but Paul did not see the Lord's face because the light was too bright. That is why Paul states that God dwells in unapproachable light.
* Enoch and Elijah was only translated, they are not in heaven yet (I Thessalonians 4:14-17)... Saint Paul was caught up to the third heaven spiritually... Saint Paul's spirit was caught up into the third heaven because he himself said here:
"I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
I Corinthians 15:50
* so, basically, your belief is a ruse and unbiblically so stop spewing judgments to other people... 😉
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't have enough time to copy and past each of peejayd's statments. It is just easier to respond to his post within his quote. I have done the same thing with recently with your posts pal. How are you doing by the way?
Quite well, its looking like being an excellent finish to an excellent year.