Tulak Hord vs Yoda

And touching a poisonous sith blade is smart now? Sith Swords can block a lightsaber attack so can a lot of other things. A lightsaber might be more useful if you are trying to destroy a wall (which btw: any self respecting Sith would do thruogh the force) but we are not arguing that now are we? We are arguing the power of a Sith sword compared to a lightsaber.

In the hands of a Sith a real Sith the power of the sword would be far greater then that of a lightsaber. So its obviously not obvious...

Just give me one thing I have said that I didn't evaluate on and I will give you an explanation if I have not done so already. But no hard feelings Fishy, you've debated well.

Originally posted by Numan
I never said they were heavier then Palls... When did I ever say that? Show me where I said that?

You were implying it. Your point wasn't very clear and you didn't evaluate on it.

Yes I implied there blades were heavier when I didn't even mention them at all... I didn't even mention their blades their time, just that after their deads people started using lightsabers, because they were trained with that from the start and because most of them didn't have the physical power to wield such blades. So even if they could it wouldn't be worth the time to retrain yourself (unless of course you had Pall his blade)

That is what I said in the post, yes that clearly means i'm implying the Sith swords became heavier over time. How foolish of me not to have seen that.

Originally posted by Numan
How powerful a lightsaber is is quite obvious. Hardly any material can stand up against it. It is dangerous to even touch one. It can cut through walls. Plenty of other things to.

Enchanted sith swords cut stuff up pretty good. As soon in the comic when Ludo's blade cut right into the wall.

Also, you neglect to mention that a hit to the body with a lightsaber or a sith saber would still be pretty much equivalent to a dead guy.

A sith sword has the advantage of having a counter balance. You could put effort into your swing. Ever try using a sword that is hilt heavy? It is clearly not easy. You obviously don't have much experience with using swords. The weight would not matter for someone who is immensely strong physically and has the force to further aid their power.

As I said before weight does not equal power.

Yet somehow a lightsaber being light makes it more effective? How so?

A sith sword can channel sith enchantments, sith magic, dark side energies, etc. Tavion in JK:A had a mega drain that used a sith sword, and she -- a relative weakling -- had no trouble swinging the blade very quickly and effortlessly. There's nothing to suggest someone like Ragnos or Sadow would be better off with a lightsaber.

In fact, because of the ancient Sith's reliance on Dark Side powers + Sith Alchemy + Sith Magic, it seems like it would more than likely make it worse for them to use a lightsaber.

Originally posted by Fishy
And touching a poisonous sith blade is smart now? Sith Swords can block a lightsaber attack so can a lot of other things. A lightsaber might be more useful if you are trying to destroy a wall (which btw: any self respecting Sith would do thruogh the force) but we are not arguing that now are we? We are arguing the power of a Sith sword compared to a lightsaber.

In the hands of a Sith a real Sith the power of the sword would be far greater then that of a lightsaber. So its obviously not obvious...

Touching a poisonous sith blade would only be harmful because of the poison. The poison does not make the blade more powerful, only more harmful on contact. Touching a lightsaber is harmful because of the power of the energy beam.

Originally posted by Numan
Touching a poisonous sith blade would only be harmful because of the poison. The poison does not make the blade more powerful, only more harmful on contact. Touching a lightsaber is harmful because of the power of the energy beam.

Exactly the point. A sith sword with dark side energies will still cut through the body similarly to a lightsaber. Getting cleaved in two by either weapon will still involve your body dropping to the floor in two chunks. Effectively, there is little difference. The only difference you could argue is that a lightsaber would melt through a door or something faster, which is irrelevant in combat.

If anything, a sith sword may be more effective in combat because any glancing blows will cause poison effects, instead of simply cauterizing the wound.

"In fact, because of the ancient Sith's reliance on Dark Side powers + Sith Alchemy + Sith Magic, it seems like it would more than likely make it worse for them to use a lightsaber."

We are arguing about what would be a better weapon and not what the sith would use better.

"Yet somehow a lightsaber being light makes it more effective? How so?"

It is less energy consuming. You obviously don't have much experience with physics. More energy is required to lift something which is heavier than somehting else.

That analogy does not apply to this argument. A brick is more powerful than a feather where a lightsaber is probably more powerful than a sith sword.

Saying my analogy is flawed without giving a reason.

"If both kill on impact neither one will be more powerful."

Even though the weight of a Sith Sword would help break the defence of lets say a lightsaber... So why wouldn't it be more powerful?

Yet as technology prosperred, Sith started using lightsabers again.

The Sith race we were arguing about never started using lightsabers. The sith as a whole did and I already explained to you why.

As I said before weight does not equal power.

Because putting a lot of physical power into an attack could not possibly make the attack more effective?

The lightsaber is more powerful. It's as simple as that. Ragnos would create more power with a saber than with a sith sword.

Statement nothing shown to support this

Ajunta was human and he used a sith sword.

Already adressed in my post before this one was said.

You call that addressing it. Don't be silly. All you have done is point out that you think that somehow the sith swords of Ragnos and Kressh etc. were heavier than Pall's. That is a illogical guess.

Illogical and wrong conclusion from my post.

How powerful a lightsaber is is quite obvious. Hardly any material can stand up against it. It is dangerous to even touch one. It can cut through walls. Plenty of other things to.

Sith swords however can as shown.

You were implying it. Your point wasn't very clear and you didn't evaluate on it.

Read a few things above.

These are pretty much all your reply's from page 3 except for 2

Which would be

I haven't argued your point? Sorry Fishy bit I have repeatedly quoted what you have been saying, acknowledged your explanation and then countered by proving you wrong. How have I not argued your point?

Which also doesn't show anything and

I didn't mean the sith as a race.

Which again means nothing.

Have fun expanding on all those posts

Originally posted by Numan
"In fact, because of the ancient Sith's reliance on Dark Side powers + Sith Alchemy + Sith Magic, it seems like it would more than likely make it worse for them to use a lightsaber."

We are arguing about what would be a better weapon and not what the sith would use better.

"Yet somehow a lightsaber being light makes it more effective? How so?"

It is less energy consuming. You obviously don't have much experience with physics. More energy is required to lift something which is heavier than somehting else.

Like I said in the first post before this debate got started.

In the hands of a real Sith the Sith Sword would preform much better then a lightsaber. Thats what you are arguing.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Exactly the point. A sith sword with dark side energies will still cut through the body similarly to a lightsaber. Getting cleaved in two by either weapon will still involve your body dropping to the floor in two chunks. Effectively, there is little difference. The only difference you could argue is that a lightsaber would melt through a door or something faster, which is irrelevant in combat.

If anything, a sith sword may be more effective in combat because any glancing blows will cause poison effects, instead of simply cauterizing the wound.

Yes but it would have no effect in a duel as the duelists would be striking at the opponent and parrying the opponents blows. A lightsaber would be a more effective weapon because it requires less energy to use and yet is still more powerful.

Originally posted by Numan
Yes but it would have no effect in a duel as the duelists would be striking at the opponent and parrying the opponents blows. A lightsaber would be a more effective weapon because it requires less energy to use and yet is still more powerful.

Again with the power of a Sith the energy use would not be much higher then it would be when the guy would use a lightsaber. And if the Jedi just once blocks a Sith attack which they would obviously need to do they would be hammered into the ground by the pure power of the blow. The Jedi would also not be able to push the Sith Sword back up and stop the saberlock, giving the Sith a huge advantage in the fight.

We are arguing about what would be a better weapon and not what the sith would use better.

WTF? You are trying to argue which weapon is better universally? So you are assuming that every individual would use it the same.

A lightsaber would be virtually useless with a nonforce sensitive. Put him in battle, and he'd get pwned by blaster fire. With a force sensitive it is more effective.

See? Different circumstances result in different preferences. The Sith would prefer a Sith Sword. Arguing "which is ze more powerful" is pointless.

It is less energy consuming. You obviously don't have much experience with physics. More energy is required to lift something which is heavier than somehting else.

This is quite laughable. I have far more experience in physics than you do, I can almost guarantee.

Unless your point of victory is trying to tire out your opponent, it has little relevance. Someone like Sadow, Kressh, or Ragnos had no problem wielding a sword and did not look like they got tired from its use.

You're simply arguing parameters that have no practical application. For a sith that's used to sith magic, alchemy, and enchanted weapons, then clearly a sith sword is better.

How about you give me them one at a time. I have to go to bed in like ten minutes. I don't have time to answer to 100 different things.

And to add on that last point, Ajunta Pall could use a Sith blade. Revan could use the same blade. Tavion could use Ragnos his sceptre + blade...

The weight may be higher then that of a Lightsaber a lot higher then that of a lightsaber but if it doesn't tire people like them out quickly what chance would it have of quickly tiring out people like Ragnos?

If anything it would tire out the Jedi who would need to put far more physical strength which he does not have at least not on the level of Ragnos into blocking the attacks.

Originally posted by Numan
How about you give me them one at a time. I have to go to bed in like ten minutes. I don't have time to answer to 100 different things.

You should have thought of that when you first posted it... Why don't you just answer them all in one big post, and if you can't finish the post then save it in a notepad file and finish it tomorrow.

You're the one not understanding physics Numan.

In order for someone to BLOCK a blow, they have to expend the energy to produce the force necessary to decelerate the weapon.

Now a heavier, stronger weapon with a counterbalance that is easier to swing will have far greater force than a light weapon that's got all its mass in the hilt. Basic rotational mechanics will tell you that while the force it takes to wield a heavier weapon is greater, the force output makes up for it, easily.

In order for the Jedi to repel an attack with a Sith Sword, it would take far more energy than with another lightsaber. The result is that the Jedi would also get tired.

Yes, if we are in a marathon to see who can swing around their weapon the longest, the lightsaber is superior. But for practical application: no, it is not.

Illustrious you have not only proved nothing in terms of a sith sword being more powerful than a lightsaber but you have selectively quoted what I have said to your advantage and have ignored things I have already said that counteract what you are saying. You also don't seem to get the point of the argument. We were originally arguing about how Tualk would do (with a saber) against Ragnos or Ludo (with sith sword). Non force-sensetives are not involved.

Originally posted by Numan
Illustrious you have not only proved nothing in terms of a sith sword being more powerful than a lightsaber but you have selectively quoted what I have said to your advantage and have ignored things I have already said that counteract what you are saying. You also don't seem to get the point of the argument. We were originally arguing about how Tualk would do (with a saber) against Ragnos or Ludo (with sith sword). Non force-sensetives are not involved.

No what you were claiming is that people like Ragnos would do better with a Lightsaber, which is flawed...

You also haven't made one good point yet, I quoted everything you said on the third page, when you offered to expand on your posts. Everything because nothing made a point.

What you said was that a Lightsaber in all cases was superior to a Sith Sword. I started argueing it was not because Sith used Sith Swords and gave reasons. You haven't given a single reason as to why they would preform better with a lightsaber... Not one, except for "The lightsaber is more powerful it r0xx0rz"

Start bringing in some real points or just admit defeat.

Originally posted by Illustrious
You're the one not understanding physics Numan.

In order for someone to BLOCK a blow, they have to expend the energy to produce the force necessary to decelerate the weapon.

Now a heavier, stronger weapon with a counterbalance that is easier to swing will have far greater force than a light weapon that's got all its mass in the hilt. Basic rotational mechanics will tell you that while the force it takes to wield a heavier weapon is greater, the force output makes up for it, easily.

In order for the Jedi to repel an attack with a Sith Sword, it would take far more energy than with another lightsaber. The result is that the Jedi would also get tired.

Yes, if we are in a marathon to see who can swing around their weapon the longest, the lightsaber is superior. But for practical application: no, it is not.

That is completely wrong and I suggest you take Physics class again because you need it. A sword with the magority of the weight in its blade would be harder to swing than one with the weight in its hilt. It's common sense.

Originally posted by Numan
Illustrious you have not only proved nothing in terms of a sith sword being more powerful than a lightsaber but you have selectively quoted what I have said to your advantage and have ignored things I have already said that counteract what you are saying. You also don't seem to get the point of the argument. We were originally arguing about how Tualk would do (with a saber) against Ragnos or Ludo (with sith sword). Non force-sensetives are not involved.

When have I selectively quoted? I've quoted your ENTIRE post. Meanwhile, you did this:

"In fact, because of the ancient Sith's reliance on Dark Side powers + Sith Alchemy + Sith Magic, it seems like it would more than likely make it worse for them to use a lightsaber."

We are arguing about what would be a better weapon and not what the sith would use better.

"Yet somehow a lightsaber being light makes it more effective? How so?"

It is less energy consuming. You obviously don't have much experience with physics. More energy is required to lift something which is heavier than somehting else.

Who's selectively quoting? Begins with a N and ends with a uman.

It's not my fault you aren't understanding basic physics. Rotational mechanics indicate the force is far greater from a swing with a sword with a counterbalance than a lightsaber.

The use of the nonforce sensitive was an analogy to point out how flawed your argument was. The situation is different, just like Fishy mentioned. Ragnos and Sadow would obviously prefer a sith sword, a small, relatively weak (physically, not in the force) force user like Yoda would obviously go for the lightsaber.

It is not universal.

Tulak with a saber will not fare well aganst Ragnos because Ragnos is physically strong enough to wield a blade rather effortlessly. Tavion, who is much weaker, can do it!

Then you have to add the counterbalance and the rotational mechanics. Tulak will have to spend a lot of energy trying to parry and defend against the blows. Then add in the sith enchantments + sith magic and possible poison, and the game is all be wrapped up.

Like I said, unless you're arguing that getting cleaved in two with a sword is fundamentally different than getting cleaved in two with a lightsaber, there's no argument there.