Fantastic Four vs X-Men

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't, clearly. Because I made a claim and you tried to add specific details to a claim, irrelevant details. Continually saying "But they used gadgets" doesn't demean the fact that they did what I claimed they can do.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've seen examples of Reed or Sue having the ability to shield themselves. However, I can't say that they have a definate shielding to it, no. However, if you asked me if they had a way to best Galactus, Annihilus or many other big players, I'd probably say no if I didn't know about it. Point I'm making is, no writer is sanely gonna have it that easy, because Reed isn't that stupid.

That doesn't factor in here.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Follow my breadcrumbs, Hanzel. I said they take out cosmics, my claim was true. Fact. There's no need to go into "But they used..." no, but nothing. Because that's irrelevant. The end result is relevant, the end result is that they beat Galactus.

And thats the thing the circumstances that allowed the m to "get the job done" are not present.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not though. No writer is actually going to create a fight in which the X-Men meet the F4 and win in seconds, because Reed for one is smarter than any X-Man/Woman and they have enough combined might to take out a bulk of X-Men.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Attacking the characters? Stop being such a diva. I'm speaking in fact. X-Men are Marvel's cash cows and F4, all things considered, are Marvel's best team. Stop clutching at straws.

The FF win because they are cool!

Not a factor in this fight.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not though am I? That's you making an assumption because my comment applies to you and you don't want to assume that someone unbiased is giving you a complete talking to. That's your deal, not mine. I'm saying the X-Men wouldn't ever win in the manner you are claiming they would, they wouldn't. Not because I don't like it, but because it wouldn't happen./quote] But it does, regardless of weather or not you see it.

How can I assume that you are unbiased when you open with:

"They're the FF, they beat cosmics."

Sounds pretty biased to me.

[QUOTE=4853852]Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, that's your assumption.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I agree. So maybe you'd wanna show me where I factually did this.

-AC

Why are people are still trying to insist that everyone's favourite crimefighters can beat the team who take out cosmics? They couldn't when you last tried, they still can't.

Opening statment: "They're the FF, they take out cosmics!"

Hahahaha favorite "crimefighters"...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Find where I said he wouldn't. Because I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not really, not at all. I'd appreciate it if you actually stopped making directly opposite assumptions.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let's spot the keyword here. Keyword: "If". If, meaning he might not.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah. Who said that? Not me.

-AC

By attackign my premise that if the torch were taken out before he novablasts then he couldn't nova blast. You were indirectly defending the premise that "Torch nova blasts. the FF win." Which is no more or less arrogant than "The psionics mindwipe, the X-men win."

Did they change the format of this thread so that the FF were stripped naked and have no resources while the X-Men get all of their stuff and prep time and get to sneak up and ambush the FF? Cuz if thats the case I can see the X-Men getting the upper hand.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Hahahaha favorite "crimefighters"...

Originally posted by Wynndar
Did they change the format of this thread so that the FF were stripped naked and have no resources while the X-Men get all of their stuff and prep time and get to sneak up and ambush the FF? Cuz if thats the case I can see the X-Men getting the upper hand.

Originally posted by Creshosk
But they haven't done it without gadgets have they?

Why do you keep raising the issue? I stated the claim that they've taken him out. Have they? Yes. Why is "how" of any consequence? I'm not claiming they took him out with force, I'm claiming they took him out. What's the problem?

Originally posted by Creshosk
So in the comics reed would come up with or find a gadget to get the job done?

That doesn't factor in here.

Of course it doesn't, because this forum is full of X-Fans who will create threads with stipulations in the favour of the X-Men. It doesn't alter the fact that in the comics, if they don't win with force, they could very easily win with some other means.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Doesn't factor into this fight. I can say that the X-Men took out a cosmic that beat your cosmic. And it would be true, despite leaving out the circumstances.

And thats the thing the circumstances that allowed the m to "get the job done" are not present.

See above. And one person beating another person doesn't mean anything. It's false.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Writers don't factor in on the boards.

Of course they do. The comics factor, so the people who wrote them factor. Quite possibly the most ridiculous notion I've heard.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Nice coolness argument. The FF win because they are the FF.

The FF win because they are cool!

Not a factor in this fight.

Show me where I said that, please. Because I didn't, you know I didn't. So let's stop that.

Originally posted by Creshosk
How can I assume that you are unbiased when you open with:

"They're the FF, they beat cosmics."

Sounds pretty biased to me.

How in the hell is that biased? I'm stating what they did. Like you saying "They're the X-Men. They've got psionics." You're not biased there, just stating what they have.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Observation is the word you're looking for.

No, it's your assumption. You're making an assumption because that's all you have. You don't like what I'm saying so you assume it's biased. It's not, fact.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Opening statment: "They're the FF, they take out cosmics!"

Yes, point? I never said they'd win because they are the F4. That's you misreading.

I said they'd win because they have the ABILITY to take out people far above and beyond the X-Men and all things considered, the way you are all claiming that the X-Men would win, is ridiculous. But oh yeah, writers don't factor here because it's a thread where the odds are purposefully altered so the X-Men have a better chance.

Next time don't reply with blind and misread assumption. Doesn't make you look good.

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
By making a directly opposite statment to mine you indirectly said it.

No I didn't. Show me where I said he would NOT get taken out. I said:

"Who actually says he's going to be taken out? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean it would actually happen does it?"

I didn't say he wouldn't. Stop making assumptions to aid your pathetic arguement. It's stupid.

Originally posted by Creshosk
They counter yours perfectly, because it's your logic I'm using against you.

It's not. It's you being 3rd grade because you can't counter my points without assuming and misreading.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Chances are pretty good that a Psionic can take him out. . unless he has resistence to psionics.

Yes the only reason people are claiming it's as easy as a single mindwipe is that they are either A) X-Fans or B) Ignoring the FACT that it would never happen like that in the comics.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Follow my breadcrumbs Gretel. Zahit said that Torch would nova blast. I said he wouldn't becble to IF he's been taken out. Keyword here IF.

Yes, that was my point wasn't it? He might not be taken out.

Originally posted by Creshosk
By attackign my premise that if the torch were taken out before he novablasts then he couldn't nova blast. You were indirectly defending the premise that "Torch nova blasts. the FF win." Which is no more or less arrogant than "The psionics mindwipe, the X-men win."

No I wasn't. I was only ever saying that it's wrong to assume Torch WOULD get taken out. He may very well not.

Try again. This time with no misreading and assumptions.

-AC

I dont think the mind-wipe is an option, IW has fought Psi-Lord to a standstill. I dont think any X-Man is going to penetrate her either.

Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, The Thing, The Human Torch.

Vs.

Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Emma Frost.

Those are the specified teams.

If Emma Frost is taken out (let's do when Creshosk does) she can't do anything and the X-Men are done.

Let's go and assume Emma is taken out. Like X-Fans are doing with Torch. Or better yet, let's look at Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm and Emma and try to figure out why anyone sanely believes these are capable of taking out the entire F4 in seconds. I genuinely do not see it, unbiasedly.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[QUOTE=4853741]Originally posted by wannabe
[B]Btw...please stop using the "Cap will win because he is THE Captain America...the FF will win because they are THE FF...Wolverine will win because he is THE Wolverine"- type of argument!!!
Just because someone stated them the best or the first or legendary or whatever does not mean they are unstoppable and/or unquestionable when you look at them unbiased.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This isn't the British Legion of croned war veterans we're talking about. It's the Fantastic Four.

How exactly are Marvel's barrel scrapers realistically going to overcome the best TEAM to exist in comic history? Don't go and say "Mindwipe. Then Jean will do this." Because as I said, they're not fighting cripples. They're fighting the F4.

The X-Men Vs The Fantastic Four. Can anybody, without literally scripting the fight in the X-Men's favour, realistically envision a loss for the F4?

Originally posted by wannabe
I agree. So maybe you'd wanna show me where I factually did this

here it comes...

...though i have to admit, that i was talking to everyone!

Yeah, as I said to Creshosk: Show me where I said they'd win BECAUSE they are the F4.

I put emphasis on who they are, I never said they'd win because of it.

-AC

Thats a joke. The torch over powered Paibok, Lyja and Devos all at once. He's also overpowered Graviton. he's not a hot rod driving teenager anymore. As long as IW or Reed protects his mind, he could beat this whole team of X-Men with little effort.

Seems to be getting overlooked though, Wynndar.

It's perfectly ok for them to assume something in the X-Men's favour but if we dare insinuate that the F4 neutralise the X-Men's only way of winning, it's biased.

Also, I'd like to raise the question as to why, whenever there's an F4 thread, people immediately say "No gadgets, nothing." Why not? Because they'd win? That's like saying "Emma can't use her psionics, Wolverine can't use his claws." The F4's ability to improvise and use outside equipment is what makes them who they are. Taking it away just proves a great deal of biased against them.

-AC

Originally posted by Wynndar
I dont think any X-Man is going to penetrate her either.

I wouldn't mind having a try.

Yea mind-wipe is cheap. But the F4 deal with it easy. IW made short work of Nate grey in his own comic book, already demonstrated she is superior to Emma in a combat situation (maybe not as a school principle though), and has successfully protected herself from Psi-Lord. I dont think the TP thing is going to work. If thats all it took, dont u think that Dr Doom or the Wizard or Skrull Empire would have just hired a telepath to beat the F4 already?

Although the F4 usually try to play it safe and dont go all out on humans or mutants, if they really let loose on these X-Men they would destroy them and that entire landscape.

That's not a possibility though, because it's not what the X-Fans want. It'd probably happen in the comics but they, of course, don't factor here.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, as I said to Creshosk: Show me where I said they'd win BECAUSE they are the F4.

I put emphasis on who they are, I never said they'd win because of it.

-AC

Originally posted by wannabe
OH PLEASE...repetetive emphasis on who the FF are to support your opinion about the outcome of this fight, is nothing but trying to make clear that they win BECAUSE they are who they are...which proves my point!
If it's not so...why mentioning who they are anyway...everybody here knows the FF and their status.

I'm not using repetitve emphasis to support my opinion. Nor should you assume that. Their reputation ALONE is no reason for ANYONE to give them the win and I'll be the first to say so.

Why mention it? Because it does help bring things back to reality a bit, it brings into scope the nature of the respective teams and the tasks they undertake as a result of their talent and ability.

Now would you like fries with that?

-AC

Apparently not. I havent seen many people of the pro-X-Men argument cite examples from FF. Instead their typical argument has been that the F4 stand around and get mind wiped from Emma.