Originally posted by -Pr-
the codex and revenge, is why.Not being snarky, I just don't think it's factually a weak plot point, just an opinion of one.
Maybe I missed something, but why couldn't the codex work on Earth? Kal grew up on Earth since he was an infant. Revenge on who?
I think it's a weak point unless I missed some information. Also
Originally posted by super pr*xy
I liked those scenes, too.. though it was a bit unbelievable that a car can withstand an exploding drone without taking any damage..
From memory the drone crashed in front of the general's car without exploding. I'm sure Superman had complete control over where it would land...simply wanting to catch the general's attention, not kill him.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympusit looked to me like Zod simply said "So...do I need Kal-El alive to get the codex? No? Sweeeeeeet. Ok. Release the world engine" He wanted to avoid a physical confrontation with him, perhaps because Kal showed his superior knowledge about their powers and knew their kryptonian atmosphere would weaken him; and somehow still underestimated him because Kal ****ed up the world engine.
Why did Zod use the World Engine on Earth? What benefit could the natural Kryptonian atmosphere provide that wouldn't instantly be trumped by the super powers Earth gives?There's a lot of confusing things like that in this movie. It's the kind of film where you need to shut your mind off and just enjoy the explosions like the Transformers films.
Originally posted by NephthysI never know how to feel with his reviews. I've found myself agreeing with most of what he describes, but completely disagreeing with his overall opinion or sentiment--No Country for Old Men especially. But Lion King is kinda "fweh" (animation, songs, and Jeremy Irons aside) and Man of Steel is very "meh". It's just so goddamned boring.
Wow, I think Confused Matthew's review may be the worst I've seen. Not surprising given that he's an utter tool who's wrong 90% of the time (dude hates Lion King, lolwut?) but I'm still a bit taken aback by how stupid he can be sometimes.
Yeeeah. It's never a good sign when you check the time to see how long it's been.
Or when you're silently urging the never-ending action climax to hurry up and end.
Or when you find yourself asking "What reason do I have to care about the fate of these incredibly bland and unlikeable characters?"
Or when you decide to stop watching the fight scene at the end and instead count the Matrix rip offs references (I got three).
Or when instead of admiring the fight scenes all you can think about is how much the choreographers seem to love imagining their fights as video-games, complete with moments that seem to scream "Hit X to Punch!"
Or when you can't decide who's more lifeless and deadpan, Russell Crowe or Kevin Costner.
Or when you can't decide which has the more forced and contrived romance, Man of Steel or Attack of the Clones.
Or when you can't tell what the point of Lois Lane's character was in this film, forced romance aside.
Or why Superman is so distraught at killing Zod despite the movie not setting up his apprehension to kill genocidal alien lunatics--or anyone at all for that matter.
Or why this "hero" sheds no tears and shows no regret for the hundreds of thousands of people who died when Metropolis got 9/11x100'd, and makes no acknowledgement that Earth and humans would have been a-okay had he not been present on the planet.
Actually no, I wasn't bored quite as much as I was confused. Confused at why I'm supposed to like or sympathize with any of these characters. Especially the main character, who at the end of the film basically tells the U.S. government that, despite being the reason the Kryptonians attacked Earth and tried to kill everyone, he insists they leave him alone and give him free reign to handle things the way he sees fit. You know, depending on how the sequel(s) turn out, Superman may just replace Bella Swan as the most diabolical villain masquerading as a "hero".
Okay first of all, the fight scenes are the best in any superhero movie ever. I have no patience for anyone complaining about the fight scenes given that the same people almost certainly complained about the lack of fight scenes in Returns and used the exact phrase 'man I hope theres a villain he can fight in this one, instead of Lex Luthor again'. We've never had a Superman movie where he has a good fight and this one delivered spectacularly. Also the fight scenes were no longer than those in the Avengers by my count.
Comparing the romance to Attack of the Clones? Seriously? 😐 AotC forced the romance down our throats with repeated awful scenes focusing on it. MoS had it rightfully as a minor subplot. It wasn't some epic doomed romance that ate up swathes of the movie. They just kinda flirted and kissed. Theres no comparison here.
Superman had just killed the last Kryptonian other than himself. Combined with the egg chamber he'd practically genocided his own race. Even without his no-kill rule it makes perfect sense if you give it an ounce of credit.
Dude he didn't have time to freak out, he was busy getting punching in the face by Zod. This Superman isn't one where he can save everyone in a millisecond. Deal with it.
The comparison to Bella Swan is laughable.
No yeah, the fights look good. Really good. But they go on too long. My beef isn't with how they look, it's why I should care about them. I'm going to judge a movie by more than its action scenes (most people I know seem to be focusing solely on them [and how badass and cool the costumes/Faora are/is] as the reason this movie is "good"😉. If I didn't, then the Matrix sequels would be grade-A gold. The characters are bland, forgettable, and unlikeable. So why should I care about what they're fighting for if I don't even care about them? Zod came the closest to being sympathetic, but he was too hammed up and cartoonishly simplistic for my tastes.
The AotC romance is contrived and forced. So is Man of Steel's. It's hard to tell which is more so. But AotC is also horrendously acted and the dialogue is pure bile-inducing trash. Man of Steel's, thankfully, is not. Still forced and pulled out of f*cking nowhere though.
I'd give it an ounce of credit if he was also shown to care about the countless humans that his presence has indirectly killed. And directly killed. Srsly, half of Metropolis was turned to ruins--hundreds of thousands would be killed or maimed, or left homeless/jobless, and the economy of the nation and the world would be in turmoil over it. That and the planet's core being pummeled by gravity lasers are sure to f*ck up life for humanity. He even demolished half of his home town. I sure hope that guy he sent in to hide in Ihop was safe after he threw the Kryptonian in to Ihop. And not a single, goddamn, smelly shit was given by Superman at any point in the film. Even in Superman IV, he was shown to be distraught that Nuclear Man was hurting people. He actually telekinetically rescued them, went out of his way to rebuild the damage he did, and lured Nuclear Man to the Moon to fight away from the humans. Cavillman didn't even flinch at throwing things in to tightly packed buildings in the middle of a major city.
But killing Zod, yeah... that's what makes him ache--not that the film bothered to establish that he was adverse to killing. At least in Batman they hammered that home, here we get no build-up or character motivation.
Just like Bella, everything bad that happens, happens because of him. And just like Bella, he's painted by the movie as the "hero". And just like Bella, no one, including him, seems to hold him responsible! Well, except for the colonel from the Matrix that he nearly crushed. But that guy was portrayed as bit of a dick, so he must have been wrong. At least Bella didn't demand that the vampire government give her free reign to handle all problems as she sees fit, and not to interfere in her doings, with a subtle "or else" tacked on in front of their downed vampire spy drone. Seriously, this guy is regarded as a "hero" in this film? He's kind of an *sshole.
I'm not trying to hate this movie for no reason. I went in to it wanting to like it, but it gave me no reason to. I admired the special effects and Henry Cavill's haircut. That's about it. It was too long, the characters were genuinely flat, bland, and unlikeable, the sequencing of the flashbacks made the story feel schizophrenic and unfocused, and the climactic action scene (in part because of the lack of characterization) felt like it was taking forever to wrap up. I want a good reason to like this film, but I just. Can't. Think of one.
I found it entertaining and worth the price of admission.
It's no Iron Man or even a Dark Knight, but it was comparable to TDKR in entertainment value. Things I didn't like: the gratuitous death in which Superman was complicit; Zod being a complete pansy and his
Spoiler:; lack of humor; etc.
death: after all the blunt-force trauma he endured, he dies like that?
Whedon would have elevated this to its proper height.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I found it entertaining and worth the price of admission.It's no Iron Man or even a Dark Knight, but it was comparable to TDKR in entertainment value. Things I didn't like: the gratuitous death in which Superman was complicit; Zod being a complete pansy and his
Spoiler:; lack of humor; etc.
death: after all the blunt-force trauma he endured, he dies like that?Whedon would have elevated this to its proper height.
Pretty much this apart from the Zod part.
Could have done with some humor and better dialogue in places to put it in league with the most epic superhero movies.
But overall still a pretty entertaining movie. And I agree with Nephyths that the action was on a different scale to what we've ever seen before.
That alone should have prevented anyone from calling this movie "boring."
Whedon couldn't produce action on this level.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No yeah, the fights look good. Really good. But they go on too long. My beef isn't with how they look, it's why I should care about them. I'm going to judge a movie by more than its action scenes (most people I know seem to be focusing solely on them [and how badass and cool the costumes/Faora are/is] as the reason this movie is "good"😉. If I didn't, then the Matrix sequels would be grade-A gold. The characters are bland, forgettable, and unlikeable. So why should I care about what they're fighting for if I don't even care about them? Zod came the closest to being sympathetic, but he was too hammed up and cartoonishly simplistic for my tastes.
If they're really good, then how is it that they go on too long? If anything I felt they could have been longer. I'd love to see Supes using his speed a bit more for instance.
You were definitely implying that the action was bad in your post, but I see that you really just disliked the characters? Firstly I wildly disagree. All the characters in the fights were decent to great in my opinion, with the exception of that big guy who doesn't say anything. Faora was a badass and Supes was a sympathetic protagonist. How is he bland? You see his childhood, you see him discovering his heritage and powers, you see him interact with his mom and dad (I liked the bit on the porch with his mother. I really believed that they were family), his anger at Zod threatening his mom, him wrecking that douches truck etc. Supermans more lifelike and human than he has been in ages. Zod being hammy is one of the things people love about Zod. 😬 Everyone loves 'Kneel before Zod!' yet he's too hammy here? And he was not cartoonishly simplistic. He had a believale motivation that while not especially complex was treated with a weight. He was genetically engineered to work only for Kryptons benefit. Superman II's Zod was cartoonishly simple. He was just an ******* who wanted to take over the planet. In this move at least he has a bigger goal and motivation than Take over the World (of course!).
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The AotC romance is contrived and forced. So is Man of Steel's. It's hard to tell which is more so. But AotC is also horrendously acted and the dialogue is pure bile-inducing trash. Man of Steel's, thankfully, is not. Still forced and pulled out of f*cking nowhere though.
How was it contrived and forced? He saves her life and then she spends a while following him around learning what a hero he is. It makes sense for her to fall for him. Anyway, it wasn't even a romance. They were attracted to each other and wanted to bone. They didn't declare their love for each other or anything.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'd give it an ounce of credit if he was also shown to care about the countless humans that his presence has indirectly killed. And directly killed. Srsly, half of Metropolis was turned to ruins--hundreds of thousands would be killed or maimed, or left homeless/jobless, and the economy of the nation and the world would be in turmoil over it. That and the planet's core being pummeled by gravity lasers are sure to f*ck up life for humanity. He even demolished half of his home town. I sure hope that guy he sent in to hide in Ihop was safe after he threw the Kryptonian in to Ihop. And not a single, goddamn, smelly shit was given by Superman at any point in the film. Even in Superman IV, he was shown to be distraught that Nuclear Man was hurting people. He actually telekinetically rescued them, went out of his way to rebuild the damage he did, and lured Nuclear Man to the Moon to fight away from the humans. Cavillman didn't even flinch at throwing things in to tightly packed buildings in the middle of a major city.
Maybe he was too busy saving the entire goddamn planet. He can't be blamed for Zods actions. Why should he feel guilty? Sure it wouldn't have happened if he wasn't there, but he can't be blamed for that.
Superman cared about people. Don't be stupid. He turned himself in knowing that Zod was probably going to kill him to save the Earth. He told people to run away in Smallville and saved that pilot from falling and even asked if he was ok afterwards. As I recall he got bitchslapped for doing that, so maybe that's why he stopped taking his attention off the things trying to kill everyone. Most of the damage to Metropolis happened before he even got there and after he did he was too busy beating Zod up and being beaten up to worry about collateral damage. You think he had time to worry about America's ****ing economy? Zod was threatening to kill every human on Earth. He had to prioritize taking him down. And if you recall, he did try to move the fight into space but Zod took it right back to Metropolis.
Also I highly doubt those buildings hadn't been evacuated at that point. Anyone still inside deserves to die for being so rock stupid to not try to gtfo of Metropolis at that point.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But killing Zod, yeah... that's what makes him ache--not that the film bothered to establish that he was adverse to killing. At least in Batman they hammered that home, here we get no build-up or character motivation.
As I said he'd just killed the only other Kryptonian (unless Faora and teh others survived). If you read the interviews they've done they heavily imply that this act is the things that drives him to develop a no-kill code in the first place. Because its such a traumatic thing for him to have had to do.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Just like Bella, everything bad that happens, happens because of him. And just like Bella, he's painted by the movie as the "hero".
He is a hero. He surrendered to Zod for Earth. He saved the entire planet. 😐
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And just like Bella, no one, including him, seems to hold him responsible! Well, except for the colonel from the Matrix that he nearly crushed. But that guy was portrayed as bit of a dick, so he must have been wrong.
Actually iirc its shown on the news before he surrenders that people are saying that its his fault Zods here so he should give up.
And again, in no way should Superman be held responsible for anything Zod did. Thats like blaming a girls vagina because she got raped. Sure, without the vagina he wouldn't have been able to rape her, but at the end of the day they both got fvcked. Also the vagina snapped the guys neck and saved the entire planet so its actually pretty awesome.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
At least Bella didn't demand that the vampire government give her free reign to handle all problems as she sees fit, and not to interfere in her doings, with a subtle "or else" tacked on in front of their downed vampire spy drone.
C'mon seriously? Superman was amazingly restrained towards the military. They tried to kill him earlier in the movie, multiple times and he doesn't even hold it against them the slightest bit. But he's not going to let them spy on him. I mean, for one thing I'm pretty sure that the military using spy drones against a citizen of the USA is illegal.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Seriously, this guy is regarded as a "hero" in this film? He's kind of an *sshole.
You mean, other than all those times when he saved people? Like when he saved that bus full of kids, including the one bullying him? Or those guys on the oil thing despite it exposing him? Or Lois again despite it exposing him? Or the entire planet Earth despite him having to genocide his own species to do so? Yeah, what an *******.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm not trying to hate this movie for no reason. I went in to it wanting to like it, but it gave me no reason to. I admired the special effects and Henry Cavill's haircut. That's about it. It was too long, the characters were genuinely flat, bland, and unlikeable, the sequencing of the flashbacks made the story feel schizophrenic and unfocused, and the climactic action scene (in part because of the lack of characterization) felt like it was taking forever to wrap up. I [b]want a good reason to like this film, but I just. Can't. Think of one. [/B]
You're clearly just a hater and also stupid.
Seriously, go die or something. That is unless Superman saves you you ungrateful spanner.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Whedon couldn't produce action on this level.If they're really good, then how is it that they go on too long? If anything I felt they could have been longer. I'd love to see Supes using his speed a bit more for instance.
You were definitely implying that the action was bad in your post, but I see that you really just disliked the characters? Firstly I wildly disagree. All the characters in the fights were decent to great in my opinion, with the exception of that big guy who doesn't say anything. Faora was a badass and Supes was a sympathetic protagonist. How is he bland? You see his childhood, you see him discovering his heritage and powers, you see him interact with his mom and dad (I liked the bit on the porch with his mother. I really believed that they were family), his anger at Zod threatening his mom, him wrecking that douches truck etc. Supermans more lifelike and human than he has been in ages. Zod being hammy is one of the things people love about Zod. 😬 Everyone loves 'Kneel before Zod!' yet he's too hammy here? And he was not cartoonishly simplistic. He had a believale motivation that while not especially complex was treated with a weight. He was genetically engineered to work only for Kryptons benefit. Superman II's Zod was cartoonishly simple. He was just an ******* who wanted to take over the planet. In this move at least he has a bigger goal and motivation than Take over the World (of course!).
How was it contrived and forced? He saves her life and then she spends a while following him around learning what a hero he is. It makes sense for her to fall for him. Anyway, it wasn't even a romance. They were attracted to each other and wanted to bone. They didn't declare their love for each other or anything.
Maybe he was too busy saving the entire goddamn planet. He can't be blamed for Zods actions. Why should he feel guilty? Sure it wouldn't have happened if he wasn't there, but he can't be blamed for that.
Superman cared about people. Don't be stupid. He turned himself in knowing that Zod was probably going to kill him to save the Earth. He told people to run away in Smallville and saved that pilot from falling and even asked if he was ok afterwards. As I recall he got bitchslapped for doing that, so maybe that's why he stopped taking his attention off the things trying to kill everyone. Most of the damage to Metropolis happened before he even got there and after he did he was too busy beating Zod up and being beaten up to worry about collateral damage. You think he had time to worry about America's ****ing economy? Zod was threatening to kill every human on Earth. He had to prioritize taking him down. And if you recall, he did try to move the fight into space but Zod took it right back to Metropolis.
Also I highly doubt those buildings hadn't been evacuated at that point. Anyone still inside deserves to die for being so rock stupid to not try to gtfo of Metropolis at that point.
As I said he'd just killed the only other Kryptonian (unless Faora and teh others survived). If you read the interviews they've done they heavily imply that this act is the things that drives him to develop a no-kill code in the first place. Because its such a traumatic thing for him to have had to do.
He is a hero. He surrendered to Zod for Earth. He saved the entire planet. 😐
Actually iirc its shown on the news before he surrenders that people are saying that its his fault Zods here so he should give up.
And again, in no way should Superman be held responsible for anything Zod did. Thats like blaming a girls vagina because she got raped. Sure, without the vagina he wouldn't have been able to rape her, but at the end of the day they both got fvcked. Also the vagina snapped the guys neck and saved the entire planet so its actually pretty awesome.
C'mon seriously? Superman was [b]amazingly
restrained towards the military. They tried to kill him earlier in the movie, multiple times and he doesn't even hold it against them the slightest bit. But he's not going to let them spy on him. I mean, for one thing I'm pretty sure that the military using spy drones against a citizen of the USA is illegal.You mean, other than all those times when he saved people? Like when he saved that bus full of kids, including the one bullying him? Or those guys on the oil thing despite it exposing him? Or Lois again despite it exposing him? Or the entire planet Earth despite him having to genocide his own species to do so? Yeah, what an *******.
You're clearly just a hater and also stupid.
Seriously, go die or something. That is unless Superman saves you you ungrateful spanner. [/B]
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why did Zod use the World Engine on Earth? What benefit could the natural Kryptonian atmosphere provide that wouldn't instantly be trumped by the super powers Earth gives?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Revenge on Jor-El, and his abomination son, by using the world engine on Earth and making him watch.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Whedon couldn't produce action on this level.If they're really good, then how is it that they go on too long? If anything I felt they could have been longer. I'd love to see Supes using his speed a bit more for instance.
You were definitely implying that the action was bad in your post, but I see that you really just disliked the characters? Firstly I wildly disagree. All the characters in the fights were decent to great in my opinion, with the exception of that big guy who doesn't say anything. Faora was a badass and Supes was a sympathetic protagonist. How is he bland? You see his childhood, you see him discovering his heritage and powers, you see him interact with his mom and dad (I liked the bit on the porch with his mother. I really believed that they were family), his anger at Zod threatening his mom, him wrecking that douches truck etc. Supermans more lifelike and human than he has been in ages. Zod being hammy is one of the things people love about Zod. 😬 Everyone loves 'Kneel before Zod!' yet he's too hammy here? And he was not cartoonishly simplistic. He had a believale motivation that while not especially complex was treated with a weight. He was genetically engineered to work only for Kryptons benefit. Superman II's Zod was cartoonishly simple. He was just an ******* who wanted to take over the planet. In this move at least he has a bigger goal and motivation than Take over the World (of course!).
How was it contrived and forced? He saves her life and then she spends a while following him around learning what a hero he is. It makes sense for her to fall for him. Anyway, it wasn't even a romance. They were attracted to each other and wanted to bone. They didn't declare their love for each other or anything.
Maybe he was too busy saving the entire goddamn planet. He can't be blamed for Zods actions. Why should he feel guilty? Sure it wouldn't have happened if he wasn't there, but he can't be blamed for that.
Superman cared about people. Don't be stupid. He turned himself in knowing that Zod was probably going to kill him to save the Earth. He told people to run away in Smallville and saved that pilot from falling and even asked if he was ok afterwards. As I recall he got bitchslapped for doing that, so maybe that's why he stopped taking his attention off the things trying to kill everyone. Most of the damage to Metropolis happened before he even got there and after he did he was too busy beating Zod up and being beaten up to worry about collateral damage. You think he had time to worry about America's ****ing economy? Zod was threatening to kill every human on Earth. He had to prioritize taking him down. And if you recall, he did try to move the fight into space but Zod took it right back to Metropolis.
Also I highly doubt those buildings hadn't been evacuated at that point. Anyone still inside deserves to die for being so rock stupid to not try to gtfo of Metropolis at that point.
As I said he'd just killed the only other Kryptonian (unless Faora and teh others survived). If you read the interviews they've done they heavily imply that this act is the things that drives him to develop a no-kill code in the first place. Because its such a traumatic thing for him to have had to do.
He is a hero. He surrendered to Zod for Earth. He saved the entire planet. 😐
Actually iirc its shown on the news before he surrenders that people are saying that its his fault Zods here so he should give up.
And again, in no way should Superman be held responsible for anything Zod did. Thats like blaming a girls vagina because she got raped. Sure, without the vagina he wouldn't have been able to rape her, but at the end of the day they both got fvcked. Also the vagina snapped the guys neck and saved the entire planet so its actually pretty awesome.
C'mon seriously? Superman was [b]amazingly
restrained towards the military. They tried to kill him earlier in the movie, multiple times and he doesn't even hold it against them the slightest bit. But he's not going to let them spy on him. I mean, for one thing I'm pretty sure that the military using spy drones against a citizen of the USA is illegal.You mean, other than all those times when he saved people? Like when he saved that bus full of kids, including the one bullying him? Or those guys on the oil thing despite it exposing him? Or Lois again despite it exposing him? Or the entire planet Earth despite him having to genocide his own species to do so? Yeah, what an *******.
You're clearly just a hater and also stupid.
Seriously, go die or something. That is unless Superman saves you you ungrateful spanner. [/B]
👆