EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament: Round 3-1; Papa Smurph vs Digimark007
All tournament participants must vote. Do not abstain. Non-participants/regular viewers must have 1000 posts on KMC forums to vote. Voting is not allowed until the first 10 hours of the match has elapsed.
It came to my attention during my match with goober that there are still people who are unaware of the Doctor’s capabilities. This cost me up to 2-3 votes, depending on how much credence they lent to that particular point.
Thus, I’m actually going to spend the first part of my post justifying my plans in this tourney, because not only aren’t they a stretch, but they’re about as mundane as possible given my team’s powers. I plan on using this to link back to in future matches in order to ensure that all voters understand my team’s capabilities. I encourage everyone to read all of it, even those who are familiar with The Doctor.
Part I: Meeting Mr. Hassan
Habib Ben Hassan is the most recent Doctor in a long line. Each new Doctor inherits the memories and experiences of all past Doctors, so any feat from any Doctor is valid. The following scan confirms this (though the words are a bit smeared out at the bottom, but are still readable): http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=134tb.jpg
…many other scans confirm this as well, but one should suffice (it was the only one I already had scanned in)
He is also a skilled telepath, technopath, telekinetic, and can alter himself at will to be able to face > human adversaries (such as growing, strength enhancement, etc.), teleport, and other abilities I’m likely forgetting. All of this can be confirmed via scans.
Why show all this? Because this is the basis upon which Reed and Lex can create their inventions. Doctor establishes a telepathic link, they transmit instructions to the Doctor, and matter forms itself into anything Reed or Lex have ever built.
Not only would this happen so quickly as to make my 15 minute prep seem needlessly long, but I could conceivably build everything they’ve ever invented in those 15 minutes, and I’d still have time to spare. If I was building it by hand, not even Flash would be able to do that. But I can, because it’s instantaneous matter manip. that forms itself to my team’s thoughts.
Please ask if you have further questions. People sincerely doubted this for some reason, and I blame only myself for not elucidating the plan more eloquently.
Thor is familiar with Hulk and how his powers work, Reed has dealt with Ultimate Hulk so he can lend his thoughts to the discussion (he built a cage for him actually, but I digress), Lex is familiar with Fate, so we’re well briefed on the combatants. I’ll be utilizing this information in my match.
It makes him roughly Superman-level. As fast as Fate will be, and roughly as strong.
I’m not pimping Reed out with a suit, but he will have his own defense in the form of invisibility/intangibility, with the help of Thor: http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?...tangiblecm0.jpg
…Reed will stay inside the vortex at the far end of the battlefield. It’s probably possible for Fate to detect him if he tries, but unlikely since he’ll be occupied with my team.
For those who haven’t read the arc, it’s a helmet that manifests Reed’s thoughts into physical reality (not unlike Doctor’s powers). We’ll stay basic and just say he manifests The Ultimates again.
Ultimate Thor, Iron Man, Cap, Scarlet Witch, Wolverine, etc. Basically we just added a whole team to our side…no different than the summoning that has occurred in past matches (Kandy’s matches come to mind), just more powerful.
And I haven’t even gotten to our heavy hitters.
Habib Unleashed
Papa Smurph had Hulk/Fate grow last match. Great. We will too. Except it’s only ¼ of my team.
Take a minute to digest that, and realize how powerful he’ll be. And once he creates something, he doesn’t have to continue to think about it, so he won’t have to give any thought to Lex or Reed.
Basically, I got tired last match of having Habib sit around while he babysat the Galactus-busting gun and made a field around my team. He’s a freaking one-man army, and deserves better.
Habib The Gentle
But why do all of that when I can quell my opponent with less overt tactics. I despise unchecked aggression when there’s simpler ways of handling things.
So Habib will do all that during prep, but once the battle starts he’ll attack Dr. Hulk empathically. See, Papa Smurph has Hulk as his “mind” (if memory serves) and we know from Thor that his strength is fueled by rage.
So Habib does this: http://img282.imageshack.us/my.php?image=185kg.jpg
…but rather than every thought from every human being (like the scan) why not send Hulk every happy, altruistic, and calming thought in all of human history? Why not indeed?
No personality in the omniverse could take such an influx of gentle emotions and not be calmed by it. So Hulk, by extension, will be Banner, or at least at base levels, and so far below my entire team that killing him or knocking him out will be easy.
In Conclusion
Tomorrow’s a busy day for me, so I’ll make it on when I can but won’t get a chance to do much posting until tomorrow night. I’d ask everyone to hold off on voting until toward the end, unless you can’t, in which case I understand the need for an earlier vote.
….anyway.
If I need to do anything extra in prep, I will, because I can go back and say what I’m doing later on because of my spying.
Otherwise, Reed just made the goddamn Ultimates, World War Doctor will calm Hulk down then smash the living God out of him, Lex is Superman-level, Thor is…well…Thor. And we have two magical beings to deal with anything Fate might have in store for us (pun intended). Any one or two people on my team could probably beat him at this point, but I’m not taking chances. So it’s all coming down, and Papa Smurph is in a helluva lot of trouble.
Please ask if you have further questions. People sincerely doubted this for some reason, and I blame only myself for not elucidating the plan more eloquently.
People sincerely doubt it because Habib isn't really that good, I sincerely doubt it because you haven't bought
6 – Instant Tech: Incredibly fast creation of super technology; this is of the type that applies to Stonecutter and the Engineer, not Forge, Reed Richards, Dr. Doom, and Tony Stark.
Ergo any tech you create will have to be physically built, you probably could matter manip the materials, but 15 minutes will get you crap and Reed Richards will be hesitant to reveal the secrets/materials to any super tech that could further aid Lex Luthor in his future plots.
Just as a reminder, I bought spying.
Doesn't matter all my prep has taken place in my artifacts since match 1
None of your team is as powerful as Extant with 99.9% of the Worlogog and spying is based on feasibility.
See, Papa Smurph has Hulk as his “mind” (if memory serves)
Incorrect, I have Hector as my mind which is visible in the first post and given your inability to spy on me for 15 minutes during prep, you really won't be able to use your exotic methods of depowerment.
Basically your prep will be 15 minutes of arguing do to the horrible chemistry of your team which involves a younger Reed Richards who's been manipulated by multiple older geniuses (including alternate versions of himself) and has had problems teaming with even the Ultimates because their stances on killing (let alone Habib who casually suggest killing heroes like Captain Atom), the always arrogant Thor who's had problems teaming with Dr Doom and won't take to kindly on Habib's high and mighty nature, and Lex, which speaks for itself.
BTW: Killing Hulk is pretty much out of the option with Ult Reed and Thor on the team, I could see them visibily fighting Habib and Lex if they even tried as much.
And also, BS is to be called on using past Doctor feats. The fact that they know past experiences doesn't change the fact that Jeroen was a messed up dope fiend that Jenny Sparks had to shoot herself to get him to realise part of his potential and that Habib spent most of Revolution crapping himself being too nuby or that the evil Doctor managed to use his powers better then Habib and Jeroen combined and even outsmarted Jeroen in making his powers more permanent (how do you outsmart someone with equal intelligence on power usage).
It's in essence like Surfer with cosmic awareness, just because he has it, doesn't make it in character for him to use it, in this case, Habib has never used super strength and gotten taken out by Midnighter punching him in the throat.
Last edited by Papa Smurph on Mar 22nd, 2008 at 01:48 PM
Well it goes like this, I will be inside my helmet consoling with Nabu and amping myself up via rage hexes and illusions and Nabu smack talk which are all legal maneuvers
36 hours, of playing with my rage, and making myself as angry as possible, I'll be at least at the level Hulk was on when he handled a 10x Warrior's Madness Thor with one arm.
Match begins I will put up my aversion field and just jump up and down in the cave to create a cave-in while turning myself invisible and intangible
, which will distract the other team, with either Habib and Thor helping Richards and Luthor or Habib ignoring Richards and Luthor and creating a chemistry riff. Either one works, and then, with their focus on saving their allies they won't have time to react to my invisible spell
Before I teleport behind what I detect to be an extremely powerful and corrupt individual in Habib through whatever rubble is left from the immediate after effects of the cave-in like this
which should he somehow survive (note: Fate using it on the human Curse for those saying he won't kill a mage with malicious intent) will utterly blow his mind, taking him out the match.
After seeing this Thor will likely use Mjlonir to detect me (or whatever just put his ally in that goofy shield) and remove whatever invisibility hex I put on myself and then he'll try to slug it out and fail miserably because of my aversion field that Digi hasn't told anyone how he'll get around. Well, knowing Thor he'll probably spin his hammer, yell something corny, then throw it and miss allowing me to jump at him (though I don't need for this to happen to get in close, can't be hit directly and Thor doesn't know this).
I will then grab him, since with my aversion field up he can't counter me in any way up close, slam him into a ground manifest a mystical club construct
and slam it into his face until Thor's no longer conscious.
Lex and Reed are really irrelevant and they're taken out by an energy beam or whatever, who cares, I'll just put an illusion into their head that I'm the other person (Reed sees Lex as Fate and Lex sees Reed as Fate) until I get done with the heavy hitters.
Last edited by Papa Smurph on Mar 22nd, 2008 at 02:28 PM
Just a quick note: the "Instant tech" purchase allows someone to instantly manifest technology when their team does not possess the power to do so on their own. Since my tech creation involves my team's inherent powers, it does not fall under instant tech, and therefore needs no purchase.
I've been over this multiple times, both during drafts, via Evangel in PM, and in various matches. It's completely legal, and has been confirmed as such multiple times. Evangel even made a clarifying post not long ago to discuss this very thing. Apparently, you missed it.
Which is all well and good, but I don't care about seeing your prep plan. I look through the portal, see who I'm fighting (Hulk/Fate) and adjust accordingly. Somehow you seem to think that you're one-upping me by keeping me out of the helmet. But I couldn't care less.
How will my inability to see inside the helmet prevent me from using the calming thoughts on your amalgam? That doesn't even begin to make sense.
Also, fair enough...I had forgotten that it was Hector's mind. But that just means you'll be in an even lower state of rage the entire fight, since Hector can't reach Hulk's levels of anger by a long shot.
Add in the empathic depowerment (in my writeup) and you have a base level Hulk for a body...and possibly Banner.
Where's that thing that invalidates all of this? Ah, here it is:
Beyond that, everyone on my team sans Lex is a hero, and all of them (including Lex) have worked together with all sorts of teams, both those that they like and dislike. Thor's a charter member of the Avengers...are you really trying to say he can't work on a team?! Reed leads his own team!
And beyond that, they're all intelligent individuals who have their loved ones and fondest wishes on the line. Are you really trying to tell me they'd bicker like little girls?! That's not even close to feasible, and didn't work last match either when the argument was presented more eloquently.
I wondered when you'd start taking pot shots at Doctor. See, I'll concede jobbers like Apollo or even Jack to you, but The Doctor is the real deal.
And I can't use Jeroen's feats?! Why, because...um...well...there's no good reason. The Doctor's very power comes from the fact that he inherits the experience of every previous Doctor. Hell, go back and look at the Italy feat I posted...he calls upon past Doctors to help him directly.
As for the Revolution arc he's referring to, I'll summarize it for non-Authority fans. Habib had just received The Doctor's powers, and had a few low showings. That'll happen when you inherit the experiences of hundreds of individuals, achieve enlightenment, and have no idea what's going on or how you're doing the things you're doing. And the MN'er punch he's referring to was before he had ever used his powers. He's since become comfortable with his powers, and has used matter manip, time travel (banned for this tourney, but it's just an example), has frozen people in place, teleported, opened dimensional portals, fought Jenny Quantum to a standstill, etc. etc.
So yeah, MN'er punched him in the throat. But Smurph pointing it out like it means something to this match is laughable.
Let's find some other flaws:
- Jeroen's a druggy....irrelevant. I have Habib. Jeroen's memories and experiences, sure, but not his personality.
- Evil Doctor outsmarted Jeroen. False. It was the other way around actually: http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=134tb.jpg http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15ea1.jpg
...those scans are also handy for proving my point, that Habib has ALL previous Doctors' experiences.
That should probably cover it for now. I'll get to his 2nd post in a minute as well.
No it doesn't, stop being a Trickster, the examples provided were two people's who's ability is to create tech on the spot otherwise I just have Nabu manifest the Spear of Destiny and run a wtf pwn train on whatever silly mechanisms you cojured up.
Which is nothing but 'summoning' a bunch of canon fodder that can be taken out with 1 Thunderclap.
How will my inability to see inside the helmet prevent me from using the calming thoughts on your amalgam? That doesn't even begin to make sense.
Because you won't be able to spy on my team and see what you're doing and who you're facing. Your Doctor/Thor level portals or whatever are not above Extant possessing 99.9% of the Worlogog.
Originally posted by Evangel94
Section 3: Rules and Regulations
Motivation: The winners will each be granted their single most fondest wish. The losers will see their single most loved one destroyed/killed/obliterated.
Yeah and this implies that Reed Richards is selfish enough to allow Lex Luthor have the technology to wtfpwn the tech inferior DCverse. The threat of having his loved ones killed doesn't trump the psychological fear he has for Luthor types based on his relationship with his father and the fact that he's been taken advantage of by Luthor types in the past or that Reed and Thor's stance on killing is a conflict of interest with Doctor's and Luthor's
And your Doctor elab is all wordplay, Doctor's all have the past experience that they can summon upon by consulting the previous Doctors but not the competence or experience. Hence Habib being useless and mocked by Quantum through most of Revolution.
- Jeroen's a druggy....irrelevant. I have Habib. Jeroen's memories and experiences, sure, but not his personality.
Exactly you have HABIB'S personality, and his personality is JUST AS flakey and underachieving as Jeroen's which is why he STILL hasn't used his powers to even 1/1000th of the efficiency of the evil Doctor you're quoting. You don't have the evil Doctor, you have Habib, who has yet to show that he can make himself super strong or work with near efficiency given the cramps on his powers as placed by the rules as the evil Doctor.
"Hell, go back and look at the Italy feat I posted...he calls upon past Doctors to help him directly."
Exactly, if Habib wants to use Jeroen's ability he will have to ask him how he did it, mid battle, while I'm dropping the cave on your team, and getting up close and personal in your face and have that aversion field blocking your direct retaliation.
Last edited by Papa Smurph on Mar 22nd, 2008 at 04:42 PM
Linking to past matches, and not even a specific post, means I'm not sure what you're trying to show us. Regardless, any rage-inducing is counter-acted by my empathic onslaught of every calming thought in human history...such mind-numbing serenity cannot be put into words.
Play with yourself all you want ( ), but it's still negated the same way as my last point.
And the aversion field: the one main point I didn't address in my writeup. Mainly, it's not that big of a deal, but I was saving it for once you mentioned it.
Basically, we have too many "spread" attacks for this to even be an issue. If I were attacking H2H, it might be a different story. But I'm not. World War Doctor (hundreds of feet tall with super-strength and an energy-defeating shield in front of him) can go all "Doctor SMASH!" on you and either destroy the ground, thunderclap, or simply create an offensive bolt so large that it's unavoidable (the latter is probably the easiest).
And all Reed has to do is have his creations do some spread attacks (Thor, Iron Man, etc.) while the rest of them keep you busy. I'd be interested to see how spider-sense affects an aversion field, but that would be too big a tangent for our match.
No, Trick merely assumed that his illegal prep would be allowed. I, on the other hand, checked with Evangel via PM and confirmed it in the discussion thread before attempting to use it. If you missed all of it, it's your own fault.
No one else even bothered to challenge it, because they saw Evangel's announcement and know my plan is legal. I have a PM in to Evangel so she can put this to rest (again...)
*story mode*
Beginning of prep...
Doctor: *opens portal*
Lex: Hey, it's Dr. Fate!
Thor: Using Hulk's body, apparently.
Reed: Oop! They're disappearing now.
Everyone: Ok then, let's get to work.
That's all I need. Go play with your helmet.
Relationship with his father? Wtf is this stuff....
Anyway, you're missing the obvious. Reed isn't sharing his tech with Lex. Reed is using Reed's tech, and Lex is using Lex's tech. All Lex sees is Reed wearing a helmet....how is that supposed to be threatening to Reed??
But thanks for posting the "motivation" section again. It really helps my cause.
Prove it. Habib's as flaky as Jeroen? Prove it...and not when he was 5 minutes old as the Doctor, but when he could use his powers.
Habib doesn't have the experiences of past Doctors? Prove it. I have about 3-4 scans already to prove my point.
He has to "consult" with Doctors? Prove it. Or rather, prove my multiple scans wrong. He talks with them, and doesn't always have all of their knowledge at once (which would destroy anyone's mind), but can access their knowledge any time he wants. Because otherwise, you're just making sh*t up.
And Evil Doctor is part of his experiences (hell Jeroen flat-out states that he has the evil Doctor's experiences), so saying that he used his powers better (which he probably didn't...Jeroen has some uber feats, and Habib is catching up in a hurry with feats) is irrelevant as well. Maybe he did, but it's all available to Habib.
Lol I'm not about to debate since apparently instant tech only applies to people like Stonecutter and Engineer but not Doctor just because......
But to point out something that's pretty glaring about your overestimation of the Doctor and distorting of facts
There have been NO Habib scans posted in this topic
there are NO Habib scans really posted in even the respect thread
there probably will NEVER be a HABIB scan posted in any of digi's matches
and there is a reason for this
The only thing Habib has demonstrated in the actual Authority books is making Rose Tattoo good and freezing Majestic (illegal type maneuver) outside of that, he's pretty much a punk with no real applicable battle prowess, to put into context in this IN-CHARACTER tourney. Should have chosen Jeroen if you planned on debating Jeroen. Because Habib hasn't really shown to be as competent as you're implying, in-fact Hawksmoore has had to reprimand him on his childish demeanor in the heat of combat.
Glad that you haven't attempted to debate my plan and instead stand steadfast in your ability to instantly create tech without instant tech creation, just like Trickster.
Oh and, if Extant with the Worlogog couldn't find Fate inside his amulet, how does Habib? Especially with only 15 minutes?
Are you saying he's more knowledgeable (omniscient) then Extant with the Gog? Or is able to transverse universes Extant can't with the Gog?
^That's how much Digi overrates the Authority.
PS: How does Thor instantly deduce it's Hulk when he's fully clothed in Fate gear?
^ Another overration? Thor isn't Batman.
Last edited by Papa Smurph on Mar 22nd, 2008 at 05:24 PM
You don't read much Authority, do you? The Habib feats you listed are the only ones I was able to get around to posting in the respect thread...but that was I think over a year ago.
Anyway, I'll try to sate your insatiable need for Habib feats later on, but it's a busy day and we're doing Easter today. The main reason is that I haven't had time to scan newer stuff into my cpu, so I don't have much of Habib's latest stuff scanned into my cpu.
But the point all along is that it doesn't matter. If the Doctor didn't have every Doctor's past experiences, I would've drafted Jeroen. But he does, so everything in this thread is valid. The onus will remain on you to prove otherwise. Until then, I've shown everything I need to via scans, and you have a scan-less smear campaign.
And I have debated your plan, and mine...quit making stuff up to seem smarter.
Because, they're the only ones he has. Unless he's done something amazing in Authority Prime he hasn't done anything noteworthy and you saying that's a year ago doesn't really mean much because
THE AUTHORITY HAS BEEN IN 4-5 COMICS SINCE THEN
And I have debated your plan, and mine...quit making stuff up to seem smarter.
Which is null because despite your high opinion of the Doctor, he's not anymore knowledgeable or powerful then Extant with the Gog who couldn't pin point Fate's location inside the amulet.
Oh look, another NON-HABIB feat. But intangibility isn't really my attacking point, it's the chaos shield I've wrapped you in, tearing asunder your concepts of what is right and what is wrong.
And your big ass body.
Basically, we have too many "spread" attacks for this to even be an issue.
Why? Your characters don't even know about my aversion field unless I tell them and it'd be pretty out of character for Thor to start creating explosions and AOE attacks with Richards and Luthor near by.
If I were attacking H2H, it might be a different story.
Which is what it comes down to with Hulking being vs. Thor.
World War Doctor (hundreds of feet tall with super-strength and an energy-defeating shield in front of him) can go all "Doctor SMASH!"
How? He's being dissapated by my chaos shield and can't hit me?
Which is nice and all, but Thor's getting his face bashed in because he's not clever enough to deduce my 'weakness'
And all Reed has to do is have his creations do some spread attacks (Thor, Iron Man, etc.)
Why? You don't get instant tech, you haven't purchased it or my prep is basically Nabu summoning the Spear of Destiny and Hector whiping your team out in 10 seconds.
Oh, and this is interesting...Thor can absorb magical energy:
Which is nice considering Thor's getting punched out and his face bashed in, in my plan.
Last edited by Papa Smurph on Mar 22nd, 2008 at 05:48 PM
Anyway to sum things up in a nice little package and give a detailed response for the voters.
Digi's plan falls apart because he assumes 2 things:
1.) He can instantly create tech without having buying the instant tech abilities and his 'loophole' should be taken as acceptable
2.) He assumes the Doctor will be able to detect what is stated that Extant with 99.9% of the Worlogog couldn't.
His counters to my plan are his characters have abilities that don't really matter and Thor somehow knows Hulk's powers are rage related (the basis of this is Hulk smack talk that isn't taken for more then face value in any of their encounters) and can absorb stuff I'm not using on him.
Even if the voters think Digi's 'loophole' is perfectly legal the only persons capable of lasting more then a few seconds who he will be 'summoning' are Ult Thor, and a few irrelevant bricks (can't hit me, remember, I have a aversion field) and I think the consensus opinion of Ult Thor is that he's a chump (I agree).
So in the end it will basically come down to Thor versus the Untouchable World War Hector who's already been power amped but through the course of the fight has only been getting stronger. Thor has no real method of preventing me from doing what I said I was going to (get in close and knock his lights out, it'd be awesome if Hector made a battlehammer like Mjlonir instead of the mace I planned), the omni-directional attack works, but at that point Hector will be too strong to be put down by those and will only get stronger and tank them better with every passing attack ticking him off more and more.
The reasons: Smurph has tried to debunk Digi's prep and his skills and in my opinion has failed, he also came to the weird spot when I ask myself in his attire transpires if he either looks like Hulk with a helmet or like a huge fate.
The double standard he sets of him consulting Nabu in his helmet being right (in a past match) and Digi being unable to use the past experience of the Doctor being wrong has not escaped my eyes. More the reason to vote Digi.
^so would the double standard of Digi saying I can't use past Fate's (despite the same spell bank and guiding voice) while he's able to use past Doctor's apply here as well?
KMC Community Forums
Mar 22nd, 2008 05:01 AM
), but it's still negated the same way as my last point.
