What's for you the worst pieces of works ever written in a comic book world?
What events, arcs or stories make you do nightmares, when you sleep?
We are talking here about the absolute crass.
For exemple, I think that Brand New Day, One More Day and One Moment In Time are a slap in the face, and probably THE most outrageous thing to ever happens in the long comic book history. IMO, it was like Quesada shat on about 30 years of comics.
Other piece of crap worth a mention: The Clone Saga and Chaos War.
I actually just got back into spiderman (quit because of omd and came back because of the praise I hear for slott). So I am supposed to believe that Peter and MJ remember everything that happened pre OMD and they still decided it was best to separate? Thats the stupidest shit I have ever read. Just ridiculous. Also I gotta say AVX is making me miss chaos war and I didnt think that would be possible.
Dont forget Sins Past, The x-men forgiving magneto and allowing him to stay on utopia, schism, and shadowland.
I find it odd that people still hate on OMD, bad as it was. DC just did that to their entire company. And pointing to good stories in the DCnU isn't a pass either, because Spider-Man's been pretty awesome once they got past the BND arc.
Just weird how we can overlook some things but not others, largely just due to how it's marketed.
It was only the same thing in the vaguest of terms. With Spidey, they didn't just "reboot" him, they completely altered his life in the present too, and broke up his marriage, something that for a lot of people wasn't acceptable, even with how good Slott is as a writer.
DC's reboot was a continuity one, not neccessarily a character one for the most part. Batman is still in his strange relationship with Selina Kyle (it's actually more promiment in the new 52). Hal Jordan and Carol Ferris are working things out. Aquaman and Mera are still together a la Brightest Day. DC used it's reboot to change histories, not neccessarily it's character's situations, which was what they did with OMD.
The only "big" DC character that suffered the same kind of issue was Superman, but most people don't care because most people don't care about Lois Lane.
I think we disagree on what constitutes a minority. For example, the entire JSA is different by all counts. Numerous other heroes are, and everyone had something changed about them. I also consider the Wildstorm cannibalization to be part of their sweeping changes.
Also, you seem to highlight relationships in your earlier post, but that's simply honing in on one aspect of the character. Staying with the same person romantically doesn't constitute no changes. And we know everyone underwent either significant change in some way, or they're simply not connected to their past appearances.
I mean, it's a "reboot" by very definition. Wholesale change and continuity resetting is literally what it is. Whereas, exactly one thing changed for Pete. And it's something they've put in the rear-view, so that it's not permeating every issue.
Changing one small detail about a character through a retcon really isn't the same thing as OMD, tbh. We're talking about a substantial life change for Spidey, not altering one event in his past that won't count when the next arc rolls around.
But that's where you're wrong; several characters are almost identical to what they were beforehand; any changes are superficial at best, like Batman or the Lanterns, whose pre-Flashpoint stuff has remained largely if not completely intact.
I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but I very much disagree that it's the same thing. It's not a fundamental change to every character like you're saying it is, the way it was for Spider-Man, imo.
I didn't get through all of Ultimatum. That was the definition of bad writing. It brought the Ultimate Universe to it's knees. But of course Loeb is still strong in Marvel.
Loeb is an interesting dude, because he can do both masterpieces, and mastepieces of shit.
What's for sure is that he can't write huge scale events. He has to be put on more "down-to-Earth" stories.
As for Ultimatum, he killed the Ultimae Universe for me.
Now, let's get serious:
Fraction's take on Silver Surfer/Galactus vs Thor/Odin.
What did we learn from that?
- Surfer and Thor are pretty much equals
- Galactus stomp Odin hard
- Surfer, Thor and Odin LOVE the headbutt. They love that shit. The headbutt is the "way-to-go" attack.
- Galactus fired every heralds he had, and scrapped his Punishers robots, and now use the Space Demons (wtf is that shit!?)
- Galactus is born from a seed (ret-coning the Big G's origins, AGAIN)
- Galactus will take anybody has a herald
- Odin is a retard: giving the Galactus seed to Galactus prevents billions of worlds to be eaten, and also prevents an ass whoopîng . Still, he keeps it. And he knocked himself out on Galactus. Who saw that coming?
- Silver Surfer and Thor are foul mouthed.
- Fraction don't know shit on both Silver Surfer and Thor, and didn't give a single ****.
Heh. Ok. I can encapsulate the entirety of Spider-Man's changes in one sentence. "He's not married to Mary Jane anymore." Try doing that for any DC character. Even the ones you mentioned like Batman and the Lanterns need new backstory on, for example, how the Robin "system" works, or what, if anything remains continuity from Pre-Flashpoint. What story arcs from the past are invalidated. Who they know and how they know them. Their aptitude with their power. Etc. etc. Remaining mostly the same in terms of character portrayal isn't a small change when their entire history gets rebooted or invalidated, and often changed. And by that logic, Spider-Man's not just similar to before, he still is the character from before. He just didn't have to go through the whole "new universe" thing. Just compare the scope...how can you say it's the same thing with a straight face when we could make a list of dozens of things for each character that have changed, and Spider-Man's can be summarized in a sentence?
It just seems pretty absurd to me to consider them anywhere near the same. You're right that SM won't shrug off the OMD change in subsequent story arcs, but that's an unfair point to make when the same can be said with Flashpoint for literally hundreds of characters. DC rebooted a universe and merged it with another. Spider-Man's single now.
But yeah, otherwise, they're pretty much the same.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 1st, 2012 12:44 AM
