KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » Spider-Man vs Midnighter

Spider-Man vs Midnighter
Started by: Starscream M

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Charlotte DeBel
White Queen of KMC

Gender: Female
Location: Belarus

quote: (post)
Originally posted by namorsubby
spidey.



BTW, let's squash the "spidey always loses to highly skilled street-levelers" rumor please


Spidey losing to Daredevil-types=BS. Spidey losing to guys with combat training who have actual superhuman stats=the fact.


__________________


Beware Blonde Badasses Emma Frost K' Dante

RIP Fluffy

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:09 PM
Charlotte DeBel is currently offline Click here to Send Charlotte DeBel a Private Message Find more posts by Charlotte DeBel Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
namorsubby
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma

although spidey has had his powers to aid him in fighting throughout the years......i still believe that one who engages in combat so often throughout such a long amount of time develops fighting skill seperate from their acquired powers......spidey's powers help.....but what about those villians who match him in speed,strength, and other categories? they test his fighting ability everytime they go up against him. I'm sure by now he's developed at least a rough set of skills he uses that is seperate from his powers....


__________________

Original Human Torch
Namora

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:09 PM
namorsubby is currently offline Click here to Send namorsubby a Private Message Find more posts by namorsubby Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
namorsubby
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Spidey losing to Daredevil-types=BS. Spidey losing to guys with combat training who have actual superhuman stats=the fact.
i'd have no problem believing spidey would lose to someone with slightly inferior physical stats but a load of MA knowledge.........heck, that's just like fighting in the real world. if you know what you're doing and the other guy doesn't........it may not matter that they're a little bigger,stronger, faster, etc


__________________

Original Human Torch
Namora

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:11 PM
namorsubby is currently offline Click here to Send namorsubby a Private Message Find more posts by namorsubby Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Charlotte DeBel
White Queen of KMC

Gender: Female
Location: Belarus

quote: (post)
Originally posted by namorsubby
although spidey has had his powers to aid him in fighting throughout the years......i still believe that one who engages in combat so often throughout such a long amount of time develops fighting skill seperate from their acquired powers......spidey's powers help.....but what about those villians who match him in speed,strength, and other categories? they test his fighting ability everytime they go up against him. I'm sure by now he's developed at least a rough set of skills he uses that is seperate from his powers....


Either not full match (i.e. strong but slower) or...dumber and losing via plot devices.
Spidey's rogue gallery isn't good proof of his combat skills...though there are some obscure people like Black Tarantula who can be the perfect test subjects for that situation.


__________________


Beware Blonde Badasses Emma Frost K' Dante

RIP Fluffy

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:15 PM
Charlotte DeBel is currently offline Click here to Send Charlotte DeBel a Private Message Find more posts by Charlotte DeBel Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Charlotte DeBel
White Queen of KMC

Gender: Female
Location: Belarus

quote: (post)
Originally posted by namorsubby
i'd have no problem believing spidey would lose to someone with slightly inferior physical stats but a load of MA knowledge.........heck, that's just like fighting in the real world. if you know what you're doing and the other guy doesn't........it may not matter that they're a little bigger,stronger, faster, etc


Then I can understand your reasoning. The very thing there is that Nighter has actual superhuman stats AND combat training (was elite mercenary even before getting powers) and no way should he be treated as a Daredevil\Batman type.


__________________


Beware Blonde Badasses Emma Frost K' Dante

RIP Fluffy

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:17 PM
Charlotte DeBel is currently offline Click here to Send Charlotte DeBel a Private Message Find more posts by Charlotte DeBel Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Tha C-Master
Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Gender: Male
Location: Kicking pigs out of the screen.

Depends on the level of stats and training really. A low level superhuman wouldn't make a difference. Another Spiderman with much higher training would. What better combat training is there than experience itself though?


__________________


Stompin' Time!!!
Props to SK wink

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:42 PM
Tha C-Master is currently offline Click here to Send Tha C-Master a Private Message Find more posts by Tha C-Master Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
SamZED
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Russian Federation

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Spiderman is not skilled. If hios powers were stripped he be a no body. He not skilled he relies on his powers to win. They even did a what if spiderman was properly trained and he was a complete utter monster.
I have to disagree, ofcourse he relies on his powers (why wouldn't he?) but he's definitely not a nobody, years of fighting experience would do that even if he suddenly loses his powers he'd be pretty strong, fast and agile and there are examples of that happening.


__________________


Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:50 PM
SamZED is currently offline Click here to Send SamZED a Private Message Find more posts by SamZED Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Tha C-Master
Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Gender: Male
Location: Kicking pigs out of the screen.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Spiderman is not skilled. If hios powers were stripped he be a no body. He not skilled he relies on his powers to win. They even did a what if spiderman was properly trained and he was a complete utter monster.
You might want to look up the definition of skill then. And honestly how many characters rely on their powers? Wolverine does also. They did a "What if" about what Spiderman would be if he didn't hold back and he was a monster as well.

Also I agree extra training would benefit him, but he isn't a nobody without it, he's had his powers removed and was able to survive supervillians.

Basically the problem is that many posters on the forum are thinking about him using human abilities, which are much less useful for him. His style is unorthodox and goes with his power sets. He getting training would help his style of thinking, nothing more. What would he start doing? Normal Earth based moves where he stands still and does one hit a a time? Which is harder to defend? That or a person doing something unorthodox that is hard to defend against.

Take it from an actual MA with really good experience AND really high physical ability. And I'm not talking about these people who all think they know something because they watch UFC.

But since you guys love UFC as an example. Why did Brazilian Jiu Jitsu become so popular and effective? Pop quiz.

It was because the styles that fighters were using on this side of the globe were mainly boxing and poking tactics with no defense against ground and grapple based moves. When BJJ came about it was new and unorthodox and people didn't know how to defend against it, hence it was so powerful. Now everybody knows it and it is effective (but somewhat overrated). Would a guy with only BJJ knowledge stomp in MMA now? Hell no, he would be crushed by other competitiors.

But we must also look at stat gap, you can put me against a 12 year old 3rd degree black belt and he would get stomped (they are out there). My physical ability is much higher, much higher than an averge man's and much more a small kid. Hence why I train everything. It is all one pool really.

If they are evenly attributed and one has more physical training, that person will often do better.

If they are evenly s killed and one has higher stats, the other one will more often do better.

If one is a little more skilled, and the other is quite higher physically, the latter will still win because physical ability is always there. It isn't something you turn off. A "skilled" person still makes mistakes and are open to different things, hell the most skilled fighter can be beaten by an average Joe at the bar if he's hit the right way.

Now Parker with no powers isn't going to take on Batman, of course not, but he could take on an average or well trained man with no powers, I believe that. Even without his super powers he would still be more physically advantaged than most could hope to achieve that are normal humans, and he is still more dangerous with his powers and without that (what if) training, than he would be with the training and no powers.


__________________


Stompin' Time!!!
Props to SK wink

Last edited by Tha C-Master on Dec 16th, 2009 at 01:57 PM

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 01:54 PM
Tha C-Master is currently offline Click here to Send Tha C-Master a Private Message Find more posts by Tha C-Master Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Mindset
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Iron Fist or Midnighter who have smaller gap to close statswise would beat poor Pete into ground.
IF and Midnighter aren't really close stat wise.

Midnighter isn't close to Parker stat wise either.

Neither character would beat Peat into the ground, well, pre upgrade IF wouldn't.


__________________



Sometimes all you have left is your Rage

Old Post Dec 16th, 2009 05:34 PM
Mindset is currently offline Click here to Send Mindset a Private Message Find more posts by Mindset Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Gender: Male
Location: Death Star

Mids.


__________________

The price of fame is high and the Thing cant pay the way.

Old Post Jun 4th, 2011 05:00 PM
juggernaut74 is currently offline Click here to Send juggernaut74 a Private Message Find more posts by juggernaut74 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
cdtm
@#$%

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It has nothing to do with physical capability, I wouldn't say he has the higher maximum output, just that he's willing to kill, the idea is to do just enough to incapacitate. Something he can do. I'd say about even.


Willing to kill, yes.

Would he try and kill another hero, though? He didn't want to kill Zealot, despite her trying to cut him in two. (To his credit, he still held his own, and even technically won the match...)

Anyways, bloodlusted or not, I'm backing Spidey. I've never even seen Midnighter dodge a bullet, and if you're not at least a bullet timer you may as well be standing still compared to Spidey...

Old Post Jun 4th, 2011 05:10 PM
cdtm is currently offline Click here to Send cdtm a Private Message Find more posts by cdtm Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Bentley
Hero Class

Gender: Unspecified
Location: France

Without the spider-sense, MN dominates evil face


__________________

Old Post Jun 4th, 2011 06:07 PM
Bentley is currently offline Click here to Send Bentley a Private Message Find more posts by Bentley Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Digi
Forum Leader

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Hm. There's other threads of these two despite this one being old. I've responded at length in the past.

Anyway, Pete with SS takes a clear majority. Without it, MNer doesn't break a sweat and wins. I could go into why, but old thread is old.


__________________

Old Post Jun 4th, 2011 07:44 PM
Digi is currently offline Click here to Send Digi a Private Message Find more posts by Digi Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Bentley
Hero Class

Gender: Unspecified
Location: France

MN punked enemies with superspeed, flight and superman-like status during baptism of fire, Pete's status barring agility will never come into play, and speed won't win it for him.


__________________

Old Post Jun 4th, 2011 08:51 PM
Bentley is currently offline Click here to Send Bentley a Private Message Find more posts by Bentley Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Digi
Forum Leader

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bentley
MN punked enemies with superspeed, flight and superman-like status during baptism of fire, Pete's status barring agility will never come into play, and speed won't win it for him.


My defense of Pete revolved around the idea that MNer's abilities and the way they work can't account for what amounts to the precognition that is Pete's SS. His computational brand of fighting can't account for someone who can literally know what you'll do before you do it. That, and his physical stats don't match up to Pete, since the SS would negate most of the skill edge.

Minus SS, MNer pwns of course. But that's not in the spirit of the original thread.


__________________

Old Post Jun 5th, 2011 06:49 AM
Digi is currently offline Click here to Send Digi a Private Message Find more posts by Digi Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Omega Vision
Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

Gender: Male
Location: Miami Metropolitan Area

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
My defense of Pete revolved around the idea that MNer's abilities and the way they work can't account for what amounts to the precognition that is Pete's SS. His computational brand of fighting can't account for someone who can literally know what you'll do before you do it. That, and his physical stats don't match up to Pete, since the SS would negate most of the skill edge.

Yeah?

Well...


...you're a poopy pants.


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Jun 5th, 2011 05:16 PM
Omega Vision is currently offline Click here to Send Omega Vision a Private Message Find more posts by Omega Vision Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
cdtm
@#$%

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bentley
Without the spider-sense, MN dominates evil face


I'm gonna need to see some MN feats, to agree with this, because right now I peg him around Cap level.

The comics I have read of Midnighter, he usually takes down mooks and canon fodder.. In their first issues, he did take down some super humans that were flying through buildings and such, which could be impressive, except the super humans turned to clay against other heroes and even bullets..

You mentioned Trial by Fire? Is that an Authority story? Image or Wildstorm?

I can't find it through a Google search. All I keep getting is either the Kyle Rayner story, or webpages about Christianity..

Old Post Jun 5th, 2011 05:45 PM
cdtm is currently offline Click here to Send cdtm a Private Message Find more posts by cdtm Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Bentley
Hero Class

Gender: Unspecified
Location: France

The showing I was talking about was in the circle storyline. He also hurts Apollo who has superhuman durability.

But Digi must know better, he's read more Authority than I have -and it was a while ago, maybe I'll buy some trades by the sole reason of Hawksmoor's awesomeness-.


__________________

Old Post Jun 5th, 2011 08:41 PM
Bentley is currently offline Click here to Send Bentley a Private Message Find more posts by Bentley Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
srankmissingnin
VP of Comic Knowledge

Gender: Male
Location: Canada

Spider-man wins via webbing with or without his Spider-Sense.


__________________


Play League of Legends for free and reference me - GentlemanZombie - when you join

Old Post Jun 5th, 2011 11:10 PM
srankmissingnin is currently offline Click here to Send srankmissingnin a Private Message Find more posts by srankmissingnin Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Digi
Forum Leader

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man wins via webbing with or without his Spider-Sense.


True sometimes but not always. This would be his best method of victory, but you're shortchanging MNer. I give Spidey maybe 8-9/10 with SS, 2-3/10 without. He takes a lot of hits sans SS.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
I'm gonna need to see some MN feats, to agree with this, because right now I peg him around Cap level.

The comics I have read of Midnighter, he usually takes down mooks and canon fodder.. In their first issues, he did take down some super humans that were flying through buildings and such, which could be impressive, except the super humans turned to clay against other heroes and even bullets..

You mentioned Trial by Fire? Is that an Authority story? Image or Wildstorm?

I can't find it through a Google search. All I keep getting is either the Kyle Rayner story, or webpages about Christianity..


The Authority have a great respect thread, including a robust section on MNer. There's more than enough contained there to get a rough idea of his abilities. He's > Cap though. WS occasionally has the problem that no one knows their villains, and the Authority usually kills its villains, so we don't have a frame of reference for power levels sometimes. But he's still done way more than trash mooks.

And yes, as Bentley mentioned, he hurt a legit low herald Superman clone with a precise strike to his ears. One of his highest showings.


__________________

Old Post Jun 6th, 2011 01:29 AM
Digi is currently offline Click here to Send Digi a Private Message Find more posts by Digi Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 08:27 AM.
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » Spider-Man vs Midnighter

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.