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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Reasons for modern era characters to be more powerful


Reasons for modern era characters to be more powerful
Started by: The Ellimist

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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

Regarding his ability to ruin planets:

quote:
Is that possible?" he asked. "Nyriss told me the ritual on Nathema took days, if not weeks. And the Emperor had to trick hundreds of other powerful Sith into working with him so he could draw on their power."

"He's stronger now," Revan said.
- Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan


I'd also note his attack on Ziost didn't just effect Ziost alone:

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Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 01:21 AM
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MS Warehouse
Senior Member

Registered: May 2016
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More good points thumb up

The pt/ot era doesn't compare in terms of troves and troves of force abilities and knowledge. It's not even close. Furthermore, insinuating that valky needed a nexus and billions of inhabitants begs proof.

Last edited by MS Warehouse on Sep 6th, 2016 at 02:05 AM

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 02:02 AM
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The Ellimist
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
That is just 350-400 years. How exactly is that less impressive? They more than double them and they're all really powerful, if not extremely powerful.


So you think the they could take the same number of top combatants from the PT/OT/NJO era? Seriously? With Luke, Yoda, Galen, Mace, Anakin, etc?

Again, I'm drawing from like a sixth of the time.

quote:

So the dark side was more prominent in the ancient Sith era, that or Exar Kun and Naga Sadow were more powerful. Which is interesting in and of itself, because Plagueis is clearly unaware of the ability of ancient Sith to remain after death as spirits, he even dismisses the possibility of ancient Sith spirits existing. But nah, Banite Sith know everything, clearly. Which leads to another correction:


Plagueis didn't believe in the sith spirits, but Sidious did and surpassed all but Vitiate in his ability to cheat death.

Regardless, Plagueis speculated that the dark side was more prominent in the old days, but then changed his mind. Why do you keep ignoring that part?

quote:


Which is a very interesting statement:



The backcover blurb reinforces Plagueis's statement to cover all sith in history. thumb up

quote:

Isn't it?

Very strange orbital bombardment:

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Didn't you have this discussion before, where a quote was brought up that explicitly mentions bombardment?

quote:

All the inhabitants of Ziost afforded him, was the replenishment of his power.


Pure speculation. But even if that were true, it still didn't match Force storms in raw power.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 03:02 AM
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DarthAnt66
The Returned

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote:
Didn't you have this discussion before, where a quote was brought up that explicitly mentions bombardment?

I can quote you half-a-dozen quotes confirming Nihilus can consume worlds, and like four specifically concerning Katarr.

Whatever quote you're referring to, which I don't even know, is a clear inconsistency next to overwhelming evidence of the contrary.


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sep 6th, 2016 at 03:09 AM

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 03:06 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

Luke doesn't count among the 'golden age of the Jedi Order'. Given the only one left out of that bunch that might be Revan's superior is Yoda, no I'm not inclined to suggest a 'vast disparity' exists between eras.

Sidious eventually did, when they almost killed him. But that renders the argument of the Banite Sith besides Sidious being the most knowledgable as hogwash. Sidious knowing everything in spite of him stating himself that there's much he'd like to recover, is sheer folly.

Sidious is Valkorion's equal as of Dark Empire, but given Yoda was barely stalemating ROTS Sidious, who isn't nearly as powerful as he is in Dark Empire, then your PT Jedi > all argument is null.

He only changed his mind on the condition that any Sith preceding him would have to have died with their secrets to be his equal, which tears the statement apart.

Excuse me if I don't take Darth Plagueis' blurb as definitive when others have claims such as Bane > all. Stick to Sheev's most powerful wank and we might get somewhere.

Do you even know which quote you're referring to? it is stated that Nihilus 'blasts' the planet, this is commonly taken as a means to lowball his achievements, even though 'blast' is hardly definitive at all.

You know what is funny? The Ravager never even appears to have weapons in the Second Battle of Telos IV. Nihilus' power can easily 'blast' the planet, given the surface of the planet is completely wrecked. The actual visual depiction, as I've provided, clearly doesn't depict capital ship bombardment at all.

>Canonically stated in a codex entry.
>'speculation'


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Last edited by AncientPower on Sep 6th, 2016 at 03:19 AM

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 03:16 AM
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SunRazer
Outer God

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Quote? On page 6, he states he didn't get Sorzus Syn's entry until after Yoda's exile and Windu's death.


I didn't say Syn's entry. The very post of mine that you quoted mentioned Syn's holocron, which Sidious confirms the Sith had access to since the time of Darth Bane.

quote:
Also, Quinlan Vos had Bane's entry in the BotS in his possession prior to his tutelage under Dooku, so it's clear Palpatine didn't have it.


Where's this stated? I recall Quinlan getting the entry whilst under Dooku's tutelage, which is why no other Jedi scribbles in that section.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 07:26 AM
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DarthAnt66
The Returned

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

I addressed that already.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So far, the confirmed holocrons in the possession of the post-Gravid Banite Sith are:

- Sorzus Syn's Holocron (contents unknown)
- ...

And then some allege Darth Bane's Holocron, but have yet to show a source.


---

His entries make clear he's still a Jedi.

View pages 73, 77, 79, 83, 84. thumb up

By the way he acts, still early Clone Wars.

EDIT: He wouldn't be writing in the book that the Jedi should kill Dooku if it's Dooku's book and he let Vos read it, lmfao.


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Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sep 6th, 2016 at 07:35 AM

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 07:29 AM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
That group is less impressive than Luke/Yoda/Anakin/Mace/Kyp/Obi Wan/Jacen/Dooku/Kyle, and you're comparing the whole of previous galactic history to just seventy or so years!


Said 70 years is more explored than the rest of the material put together. Also a 3rd of that list is made up of the Skywalker bloodline, which is obviously an exceptional case.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I can quote you half-a-dozen quotes confirming Nihilus can consume worlds, and like four specifically concerning Katarr.

Whatever quote you're referring to, which I don't even know, is a clear inconsistency next to overwhelming evidence of the contrary.


I think he's talking about the one that says N "blasted them into ruins". Which doesn't specify bombardment and has been debunked as such many times already. Unseen, Unheard shows us it was a force attack.


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Last edited by Nephthys on Sep 6th, 2016 at 08:57 AM

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 08:52 AM
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MS Warehouse
Senior Member

Registered: May 2016
Location:


 

quote:
Said 70 years is more explored than the rest of the material put together. Also a 3rd of that list is made up of the Skywalker bloodline, which is obviously an exceptional case.

For some reason, this point is never addressed.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 12:54 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
On the other hand what does this mean for the resurgent Sith Empire? Malachor is described as one of the many Sith strongholds abandoned at the end of the Great Hyperspace War, which includes Korriban, and as Ziggy pointed out the Jedi seemingly laid waste or otherwise raided what the left behind. So presumably there accumulated Sith knowledge would be just as lacking.
Neither has this, interestingly.

And frankly this goes for the Jedi too, they lost the Temple on Ossus, and they suffered near extermination at the hands of the Triumvirate, forcing Meetra to rebuild the Order from the ground up. In that respect I can't see how the TOR era could possibly be considered to be in possession of more Force knowledge, when realistically it should possess some of the least.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 01:02 PM
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SunRazer
Outer God

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

Well, I mean, it's not as if Darth Revan's holocron doesn't include the teachings from Malachor V and Korriban that he studied, right?

But TOR Sith built their knowledge largely off experimentation, since they fled after the Korriban genocide from the Republic and stayed in exile for millennia. At most, they would have discovered some teachings left behind by the Sith earlier on Dromund Kaas.

By the time they came back to Korriban, however, there was only a destroyed world with its tombs being further looted over the millennia. The game is even set in the midst of excavation efforts. TOR era doesn't look to be much more convincing, lol.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 01:05 PM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

To address Neph's point though 1. the Skywalker bloodline was created to as a response to the growing power of the Sith, and 2. the TOR era is explored sufficiently enough to account for the best of each respective period, and yet they remain holistically inferior.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 01:05 PM
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MS Warehouse
Senior Member

Registered: May 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Neither has this, interestingly.

And frankly this goes for the Jedi too, they lost the Temple on Ossus, and they suffered near extermination at the hands of the Triumvirate, forcing Meetra to rebuild the Order from the ground up. In that respect I can't see how the TOR era could possibly be considered to be in possession of more Force knowledge, when realistically it should possess some of the least.


But isn't the argument that force users got more powerful over time while we are arguing that that wasn't possible considering that inifnitely more force knowledge was lost than found or created?

quote:
To address Neph's point though 1. the Skywalker bloodline was created to as a response to the growing power of the Sith, and 2. the TOR era is explored sufficiently enough to account for the best of each respective period, and yet they remain holistically inferior.

This is an opinion.. To you it may look holistically inferior, but to me it's anything but. I'll grant you the fact that some of the most powerful force users came about the time after Bane's eradication of the sith, but you have equally powerful characters in the TOR era.. If you want to argue quality>quantity, that's pretty much all you have and I'll concede that point.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 01:19 PM
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DarthAnt66
The Returned

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 05:23 PM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


Zenwolf is online now!

Eh just to note AP, you do see the Ravager firing as the Exile goes to board the ship.

https://youtu.be/0fAqt3xtlWw?t=98


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 05:31 PM
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DarthAnt66
The Returned

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Can I have a quote confirming that holocrons have all the knowledge of their creators (as the time of its creation)?


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 05:39 PM
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MS Warehouse
Senior Member

Registered: May 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Can I have a quote confirming that holocrons have all the knowledge of their creators (as the time of its creation)?
no such proof exists and I'm not sure it will help the OP argument anyways. We've seen maybe two holocrons that seem to possess the creator's full spectrum of knowledge and that's bane and nadd. I only use nadd because it took bane a decade to study the holocron.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 05:46 PM
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DarthAnt66
The Returned

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

And yet people expect Bane to have all the knowledge within Revan's holocron, which was flawed (the crystal was weak and it had no markings - note the markings were essential for the holocron's "appearance, knowledge, and cognitive processes") and only studied for "a few short weeks?"

laughing out loud

Also I'm not convinced that a lone holocron would contain all of Revan's knowledge. Holocrons are generally created with a specific purpose ("A Holocron could contain ancient rituals of devastating power, or the keys to unlocking the magics of ancient Sith sorcerers, or even avatars that simulated the personality of the Holocron's original creator."), and as made clear by Revan's, the emphasis was philosophy with a hint of Sith sorcery.


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"The Emperor had three-hundred years to break this man . . . and he never succumbed?"

Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Sep 6th, 2016 at 05:54 PM

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 05:50 PM
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MS Warehouse
Senior Member

Registered: May 2016
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First someone would have to prove revan's holocron contained all of its teachings which would be hard considering revan stressed the rule of two and not sharing power. Then we have to consider that bane learned all that he could for a few weeks max? At that point it becomes blatantly obvious.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2016 05:58 PM
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The Ellimist
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Registered: Apr 2016
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up


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