But, see, I never used blitz, because that's not accurate. What he does is bullrush Thor, since, unless Damborg modifies his stipulations, Superman's flight speed is intact. He's not running towards Thor. So if it's a better vizualization, imagine we're standing 500m apart, and almost as soon as the bell rings I come to you in a F1 car at top speed, but with virtually instant acceleration and stop - only several times faster than that. It'd take me a fraction of a second to get to you [or Superman to Thor], at which point separation from the hammer happens. That is, undoubtedly, the most simple and logical course of action based on the information Superman receives right at the start of the fight.
And there lies the problem, Thor also gets his information at the start of the fight, not prior to the fight. You sit there thinking on what he should do, but he doesn't have that luxury, the fight starts and he has at most a second to think what he would do, based on the data he just received. I never said that he doesn't do anything, but the probability that he does the small fraction of things he can do to Superman's simple plan is very, very low. And how many of those things can he do in the small time frame before Superman closes in?
To simplify it, let's think of it this way. What does Superman get on Thor? "Thunder God with a powerful hammer that he uses for battering or versatility". Based on Superman's abilities, easily his course of action would be to close the distance and separate him from the hammer. What does Thor get on Superman? Super-strong flying brick with heat vision and weakness to a radiation that he can't replicate and red sun. Does he try to throw the hammer at Superman, risking not hitting him and susceptible to being grabbed by the neck and beat the shit out of into the sun [once Superman grabs Thor, given his flying speed, he'll be in the sun in less than a second, since space is empty and it's a straight line]. Would Superman use his super-breath as he flies to limit Thor's field of vision and thus hammer strike, since his super-senses allow him to see either way? Possibly. Would he use his heat vision to keep Thor busy blocking it, so that he doesn't do anything else? Also very possible. Does he keep the hammer in his hand, and go physical? Superman is stronger, he'd hit it straight out of his hands, which a lesser Superman copycat has already done. Or do a Hulk [or Red Hulk], and grab his hand and start beating him with it. Or heat vision his face as he tries to hit him with the hammer. Freeze breath his hand. Waste time creating portals, when that only gives Superman an opening to physical grab him out of there? etc.
I think we're on the same page as to what tactics he'd employ - but we disagree on the extent of them working.
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Every single one of these has extenuating circumstances. Captain Marvel has never won, against Superman despite magic weakness in play.
Thor has been given equal speed. His attacks like lightning or hammer throws aren't.
If we are going by one/two time showings route, Superman goes intangible and pulls Thor's heart out while attenuating his body such that Thor can't even touch him.
Except far superior strength, durability and overall physical superior stats.
Because Superman can eat an axe swing from Persuader without getting pierced. Throw in a little magic and Viking cuts him.
Captain Marvel straight up admits that the magic weakness contributed to the KO. And it Superman brings it up himself in a different fight it was bothering him. https://comicnewbies.files.wordpres...w=620&h=920
Nightshade straight up restrained Superman. Because, magic.
There's more, these were from like, a quick Google search lol.
Nope, they're equalised equalized to Thor's speed. Even if he went intangible, he'll receive Mjolnir to the chest. Not that he can here.
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
So does Thor's magic advantage means that when he hits Superman with his magical hammer....it affects him just as it does everyone else?
Or does it mean SBP haha it tickles! Go back to your creator, Thunder God!
Because if the former....that's going to be difficult to show how that changes much. Yes, Superman has a magical weakness,but every respect thread has a whole section devoted to him resisting magic.
Hulk have a healing factor that works so fast it appears as if he is invulnerable. True dynamic strength and durability and he is one of the most aggressive characters in comics. I don't think that was a good comparison.
Ares has oneshotted Thor by surprising him. Heck Skurge has done so. Sucker shots can do that.
Getting cut doesn't means getting koed. The wasp analog was inside his head distracting him when Viking basically cheapshotted him. Later Superman made Viking flee and was beating Viking and Monster (Hulk analog) combined while he was merged with Batman.
He also said element of surprise as what it did.
Superman said magic gave Cap an edge over him. Despite that, he caught his punch and threw him away like nothing.
Not quite a win there.
And if was after Superman had just ran through a gauntlet of supervillains. He endured Silver Banshee just fine earlier.
I can do a lot worse for Thor if I want.
Thor has equal speed to Superman. Not that he has his experience.
Vision isn't Superman and he is particularly susceptible to electrical attacks.
Like the Op said, this is just a way of shutting down the speed blitze and magic weakness arguments. The burdon of proof is on proving eithet can shut the other down, comic book style (So we can look at, say, Thor vs Gladiator or Count Nafaria. Or point to Superman vs non magic based versatility)
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Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
The scene where's he's cut is earlier in the fight. It shows his vulnerability which is the purpose. Were it just an axe, it likely wouldnt have cut him.
His performance after where he punches him once doesn't mean he doesn't have a magic vulnerability.
I don't see how that matters? He also switched him over to batman because he was having difficulties. (Lol) these instances are just to back up the magic vulnerability. Superman being tough doesnt change that, it just means he'll be particularly susceptible to them sometimes.
A gauntlet? Who? Mind controlled banshee and mind controlled Mongul? The real gauntlet comes after that iirc. And regardless, Superman straight up admits the magix was affecting him.
Do worse in what area, Thor doesn't have a magic vulnerability, if it knocks him out it was just the strength of the spell, not his,acceptability to spells.
No, Superman has equal speed to Thor. There's a difference.
Superman also wouldn't like a chunk of Uru in his chest and it didn't look like an electrical attack regardless.
According to some writers (Like Busiek on CBR, against Pendaran and cohorts), he claimed Superman isn't especially weak at all. No more then Hulk, Batman, or Gladiator
He simply lacks magic resistances/immunities.
Basically, in his argument magic is something you can defend against, or you can't. And physical defenses are completely ignored by it.
So by virtue of being a purely physical brick, that makes him "weak against magic."
The take away is, if Hulk can power through an hammer blow or attack from Mjolnir, then so can Superman.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
The argument I'm talking about happened years ago. Left Pendaran unable to argue further then "I mean, it was nicely argued. But it's just one guys opinion."
But even better if there's something more recent (And verifiable, since CBR was also purged..)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
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ah, i see. i think the issue is we're arguing under different understandings of the rules here. i'd assume that equal speed applies across the board--ie their flight speed is also the same meaning they could cover the same distance in the same amount of time. that would mean supes is attacking thor at thor speed. now, that can be pretty fast, but his acceleration is a LOT less than superman's in 99/100 cases. so this would be a relatively slow, easy to react to bullrush...
you're also assuming that supes would easily replicate glads feat of knocking the hammer away, but i'm not so sure it would be that easy. i mean how many battles against uber opponents had he fought and NOT had the hammer knocked away? i'm not sure the assumption that superman would do so is a given. then once he's reached thor, even if he does succeed, (get to him and knock away the hammer) it still isn't over. thor can effortlessly recall the hammer (and in this scenario it is by far the fastest thing on the field) and have it hit supes in the back (ala worthy thing) or he could summon lightning (which i do think would do damage to superman...some of those lightning feats are pretty impressive) to break up the ensuing wrestling match.
again, we're seeing the effectiveness of this bullrush differently. i def feel like thor would have time to decide whether to throw, spin or swat with the hammer. he's blocked laser fire easily enough and here superman would be bullrushing at far below light speed.
are these tactics you suggest possible? sure. do i see them being as effective as you do? no, you're right i don't. i mentioned knocking the hammer away already. he could, but as i said, it's not a given in my mind. could he grab thor's hand and beat him with the hammer? maybe, but again, while he's bullrushing? i just don't see it. in this bull rush scenario, i can see supes charging with hv, and thor spinning the hammer to block. i doubt he'd go for bfr that early, but he could and the portal is strong enough to suck in guys like nefaria, who is also stronger than thor and has caught a hammer blow. i'd guess superman would stop his charge when the hammer spun then it would come down to a more typical battle where the hammer's versatility would be the difference. /shrug
yep. and i think we have a different understanding of the rules too.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 10th, 2018 06:49 AM
stupid OP.
