Except the Great Wall did not keep the Mongols out of China. If that is your example, then wanting to build a border wall for security after its spectacular failure would be retarded.
That is the same line of argument conservatives make against common sense gun laws. I am glad you agree they are retarded.
The wall did indeed worked, only problem was the Mongolian went and attacked were there were no wall. So yes, the wall did indeed accomplished its intended goal.
Guns don’t magically kill people though. But I also like the fact you forgets, those politicians that screams guns are bad, have bodyguards that protects them with guns, and live in gated communities with walls to keep the unwanted out.
A conservative challenged liberal Facebook friends to “make a case, not based on emotion” against Trump’s wall. Conservative buddies flooded his post with snide remarks about how this would be impossible for “deluded libs.”
“Okay, I’ll play,” I responded. And in order to avoid being accused of bias, I explained that I would use only conservative sources to prove my point. My primary source was a policy paper by the Cato Institute, a conservative, rightwing think tank, along with other conservative voices (listed at the end of the piece). Here’s why I’m against the wall, I wrote:
Walls don’t work. Illegal immigrants have tunneled underneath and/or erected ramps up and down walls to simply drive over them. People find a way. When East Germany erected its wall, it created a military zone, staffed by booted, machine-gun carrying guards ready to shoot to kill. Yet thousands managed to make it to West Germany anyway. More to the point, do we really want to model ourselves after communist East Germany?
Most illegal immigrants are “overstayers.” They come to the US legally — for vacations, business, to study, etc. — and then STAY past their visas. By 2012, overstayers accounted for 58% (THE MAJORITY!) of all unauthorized immigrants. A wall is meaningless here!
Walls have little impact on drugs being brought in to the US. According to the DEA, almost all drugs come in through legal points of entry, hidden in secret containers and/or among legit goods in tractor-trailers. A wall will have little to no impact on the influx of drugs into our country.
It’s environmentally impractical. Walls have a hard time making it through extreme weather. For example, in 2011, a flood in Arizona washed away 40 feet of STEEL fencing. Torrential rains and raging waters do serious damage. Also, conservative sources generally do not address the environmental harm that walls create, but there is plenty of documentation available that show its potential for irreparable damage to both plant and animal life.
A wall would forces the U.S. government to take land from private citizens in eminent domain battles. Private citizens own much of the land slated for the wall. The costs of the government snatching private land — and the legal battles that would ensue — are incalculable.
Border patrol agents don’t like concrete or steel walls because they block surveillance capabilities. In other words, they can’t mobilize correctly to meet challenges. So in many ways, a wall makes their job more difficult.
Border patrol agents say, “Walls are meaningless without agents and technology to back them up.” Are we prepared to pour countless billions annually — after the wall is built — to create a nearly 2,000 mile, militarized 24-hour surveillance border operation? Because according to patrol agents, that’s the only way a wall would work. Again, are we really, going to use East Germany, a brutal communist state, as our model here?
(please log in to view the image)
Where walls have been built, there was “no discernable impact on the influx of unauthorized aliens.” In other words, they came in elsewhere, primarily where natural barriers such as water or mountainous regions precluded a wall.
An unintended consequence is that a wall blocks farmworkers from EXITING when their invaluable seasonal work is done. Farmers are against the wall because it makes getting cheap seasonal labor almost impossible as few American citizens want or can even do those jobs. And if seasonal worker do get in, a wall makes it harder for them to leave! A wall traps migrant farm laborers in our country.
Trump’s $5 billion is a laughable drop in the bucket for what would ACTUALLY be needed. For example, according to the Cato Institute: An estimate for a border wall area that only covered 700 miles was originally 1.2 billion. How much did it REALLY cost? SEVEN BILLION. And that’s only for 700 miles. Whatever we think it’s going to cost, experience shows us we have to multiply it by more than 500%.
According to MIT engineers, the wall would cost $31.2 billion. Homeland Security estimates it at $22 billion. Given the pattern of spending mentioned in number 10 (plus Murphy’s Law), that means we’re really talking about pouring endless billions into something that doesn’t even work. And, of course, we taxpayers will be footing the bill, not Mexico. Given all the drawbacks, is that REALLY the best use of our taxes?
As the conservatives of the Cato Institute put it, “President Trump’s wall would be a mammoth expenditure that would have little impact on illegal immigration." Also it would create many “direct harms": “the spending, the taxes, the eminent domain abuse, and the decrease in immigrant’s freedoms of movement.”
And, we must add, since conservative sources do not — that the environmental harms are likely to be severe.
In other words, the facts show that walls don’t work and they create even bigger, more expensive problems.
So what happened after I posted this conservative-sourced, fact-based list of why the wall is a bad idea?
Silence.
I waited for someone to respond, to engage with me. Where were the angry defenses or rebuttals? But when I searched for the post after a few days, I couldn’t find it.
My FB friend had deleted it. You could say, like Trump with the government, he shut me down rather than deal with the facts.
The ugly genius of Trump is his ability to manipulate deep, primal emotions — namely fear and hate. He, along with Fox News, have convinced his base that they are in “extreme danger” from immigrants and only a wall will make them “safe.”
Unfortunately, the need to “feel” safe is much stronger than the will to grapple with a complex, multi-faceted problem.
And so, here we are, paralyzed by shutdowns at every turn.
Conservative Sources Outlining the Uselessness of Trump’s Wall:
So what you are saying is that people will just enter the country another way, as the majority already do, or they will just go around the wall. I agree, that is why a wall is a dumb idea.
But people who are determined to get into the country will find a way, just as people who are determined to get a gun will find a way. So why build a wall or have gun laws?
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Most times its not WHAT Trump is saying (Personally i’m all for keeping out some other country’s criminals and or potential terrorists), its HOW he’s saying it.
He’s an overbearing douchenozzle without a shred of couth and a blatant, cartoony racist.
That may be great when looking for ratings on a TV show, but not when the leader of the free world is looking to promote an agenda.
As for a legit reason why there should be no wall, its just not a prctical idea.
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
It was dumb to say Mexico would pay for it, but I find it interesting how some continually bring this up.
Let's be honest: if tomorrow Mexico magically decided they would pay for the wall, how do you feel democrats would react? Throw their arms up in the air and go "oh fine, as long as they are paying for it!"? Is that would people think would happen?
Cuz it wouldn't lol. They call the very notion of a wall immoral. Who pays for it is irrelevant nor is the effectiveness relevant: they do not want a wall, period.
So while Trump, like a jackass, continues to pretend Mexico will pay for it you have these jackasses acting like they would be in favor of it if it was feasible. No, they really would not. It is not about money nor is it about effectiveness. It never was.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Jan 6th, 2019 at 03:33 PM
If walls don't work, why did we bother putting up fencing?
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 5th, 2019 11:02 PM
