Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I really don't understand the premise of this argument, just because someone beat someone in a match means they will here? There is no "defeat xxxx ability"... Pointless premise.

no it doesn't.. but it does help to lead to a specific conclussion on various other questions...

for instance.. the fact that wolverine's hit spiderman a number of times... indicates that he PROBABLY has a good chance to do so here

the fact that webbings been used a number of times on a fighting wolverine and has rarely proved effective... indicates that rendering wolverine helpless by webbing is PROBABLY going to be difficult to do here

the fact that he's unloaded on wolverine on several occasions and failed to knock wolverine out....... indicates that wolverine PROBABLY won't get KOed here...

and so on and so forth...

Originally posted by Dizzle
I never said Spiderman could beat Wolverine solely because he can beat Ock. I said the tentacles are faster than Wolverine, and so Spiderman has indeed performed better than in the encounter between himself and Wolverine. It's an example of a high end feat, as opposed to a low end one...

and I never said you did strawman.. 🤨

but statistically.. his tenticals are not faster than wolverine.. you may want to go to the wolvie vs. dock ock thread for more info...
and so, spiderman has not...

the one time doc ock had the chance to prove your theory correct through confrontation vs. wolverine.. he failed...

and so once again..

When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

Originally posted by jinzin
and I never said you did strawman.. 🤨

but statistically.. his tenticals are not faster than wolverine.. you may want to go to the wolvie vs. dock ock thread for more info...
and so, spiderman has not...

the one time doc ock had the chance to prove your theory correct through confrontation vs. wolverine.. he failed...

and so once again..

When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

😠 sonovabitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😠

what happened to the rest of my argument? 🙁

dammit!

But you have to bring ties to what abides to the forum and what is beyond the suspension of belief.

Originally posted by jinzin
no it doesn't.. but it does help to lead to a specific conclussion on various other questions...

It can help, if the situation is the same as the one here, if its a special situation, than the viability of the example is less reliable. See what I mean?

Originally posted by jinzin
for instance.. the fact that wolverine's hit spiderman a number of times... indicates that he PROBABLY has a good chance to do so here

Wolverine has had a rather poor history of hitting spiderman. 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
the fact that webbings been used a number of times on a fighting wolverine and has rarely proved effective... indicates that rendering wolverine helpless by webbing is PROBABLY going to be difficult to do here

I've seen his webbing work well not ONLY on wolverine but on several characters in his history, that COMBINED with the fact that the tensile strength of the webbing is 120 lbs per millimeter, AND is adhesive, leads to the conclusion that if wolverine's leverage is taken away from him he can indeed be webbed up.

Originally posted by jinzin
the fact that he's unloaded on wolverine on several occasions and failed to knock wolverine out....... indicates that wolverine PROBABLY won't get KOed here...

BUT the fact that wolverine's healing has been altered for EACH and every match he's been in makes it inconsistant, and THAT combined with the fact that spiderman has knocked him flying in one comic and not in another... AND that with the fact that wolverine DOES take damage at the rate of a human should mean that no matter how fast he heals, if he gets ko'ed then he can indeed be ko'ed.

Originally posted by Dizzle
It is impossible to explain Wolverine getting flciked by Hulk, much less smashed with a tree so hard that it makes a mushroom cloud. Not a singlke one. He says himself that he is rehealing ALL of his internal orgnas every time he is hit. No human healing could EVER do that; organs don't simply regrow themselves. Since Wolverine's healing is indeed HEALING, and not regeneration, he should logically NEVER takea shot from Hulk and live. It's a consistant feat, but physically impossible, by his character description.

you're strawmanning here.. my argument has nothing to do with character descriptions.. and they are not a vital part to the argument I've presented... wolverine has recovered from damaged organs and regenrated incinerated flesh, disintigrated muscles, tendons etc etc etc many times in the past.. again it's a matter of consistent feats.. which was what this argument is all about.. if wolverine's done something enough times.. you'll eventually have to accept it as part of his character.. no matter how much you disagree.. many characters in comics are physically impossible including spidey.... making that argument to discredit his feats is quite benign considering the place you're debating in....

Originally posted by Dizzle
The training room was filled with PIS. Spiderman webbed Wolverine between two buildings once, Wolverine could not escape until it dissolved.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Spiderman webbed his wrists once. Later, he had to free Wolverine from them. Used well, Logan can be easily incapacitated by webs. Once again, it won't necessarily happen instantly, but after a good amount of time spent keeping away from Wolverine, Logan will get webbed. He's dodged bullets, but has he dodged something comparable to a constant stream of stuff moving at at LEAST bulelt like speed?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Yes it is. Spiderman was hitting as hard as he can, but using all of one's strength is not related in any way to fighting intelligently. What if he had pulled out his web shooter when Logan was laid out on the headstone?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Except for the parts where he, you know, doesn't even begin to dodge, though Spider Sense allows him to begin dodging even before an attack begins... I said the only explanation other than it magically not working would be him ignoring it. There would be no reason for either to happen, so it's PIS.

Originally posted by Dizzle
PIS is plot induced stupidity, one character acting below or above his or her capabilities, so as to advance or enhnace the plot. It isn't much of a fight if Spiderman just dances around Wolverine and webs his airways, is it?

Originally posted by Dizzle
1) 8 times, many involving outside circumstances and PIS.

Originally posted by Dizzle
2) Consistancy vs. Accuracy. Silver Surfer fails to use his speed VERY consistantly He also forgets that he CAN expend his energy and fly without his board. Again, this has happened several times. But he can do both. Anytime he says he is "too slow" when not talking about him crossing a distance of a light year or three in an instant, it's PIS. It can be consistant, but still not accurate to the scope of his powers. Same goes for Spiderman and Wolverine. Spiderman has proven faster than he is portrayed in those direct confrontations, so regardless of how many times WOlverine hits him, it should almost never happen, WITHOUT plot devices and outside circumstances.

and yet it does.. so now you're arguing for how you think the characters should be? great.. then wolverine wins as he IS. what you were referring to sounds more like cis than pis.. but that's not what this debate is about...

Originally posted by Dizzle
3) Yes they are. So are yours, which, once again, was my point. An elk shouldn't KO Wolverine, Spiderman's spider sense should always work, Spiderman shouldn't be stupid enough to let himself be tackled..

Originally posted by Dizzle
Spiderman hits harder than bullets. Spiderman hits harder than elk. Spiderman hits harder than Daredevil. By a LOT. That's not a good point. They are all PIS, but it's something (people with less strength than Spidey) that has happened repeatedly.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Doc Ock jobbed... His claws move at 90 m/s, and are independently controlled by 4 AI's. Two grab Wolvie's arms, one guts him repeatedly. Ock holds a martini with the fourth..

so you assume.. actually statistical charts put his arms slower than wolverine's.. go check the wolvie vs. ock thread for info.... guess ock jobs to spidey too?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Ock's are mostly blunt, while Wolverine's are claws. Basically, all Wolverine does is block them. They're just sharp enough that the bullets get sliced in half in the process...

Originally posted by Dizzle
But does he dodge them via plot device? Ock comes out on top because he IS more powerful than SM. The fact that Spiderman can dodge him, though not necessarily indefinitely, is an example of his speed. I'm not saying "SM can beat Doc, so he can beat Wolverine too". I'm saying the tentacles outclass Wolverine in most categories relating to overall striking ability.

no, but I never argued that he did.. 🤨 you're assumption on his tenticals is an incorrect one.. once again.. go research the thread...

again.. in that same notion.. human characters have dodged the same tenticals... are they too as fast as spidey?

Originally posted by jinzin

I can't spell.. but you can't count.. wolverine wins.. 4 to 2...

appaerently niether can I... dammit... 5 to 2.. 😂

oh well.. I can own up to it...

wolvie still wins.. 😄

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It can help, if the situation is the same as the one here, if its a special situation, than the viability of the example is less reliable. See what I mean?

no it can help regardles.. because we can pick apart pieces of their encounters to estimate the one presented here...

for instance.. making the claim that spiderman can KO wolvie through physical force is an incorrect claim because of the examples presented....

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wolverine has had a rather poor history of hitting spiderman. 😕

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I've seen his webbing work well not ONLY on wolverine but on several characters in his history, that COMBINED with the fact that the tensile strength of the webbing is 120 lbs per millimeter, AND is adhesive, leads to the conclusion that if wolverine's leverage is taken away from him he can indeed be webbed up.:

IF....

but this is exactly why the examples are important.. they provide evidence that indicates doing so is EXTREMELY difficult..

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
BUT the fact that wolverine's healing has been altered for EACH and every match he's been in makes it inconsistant, and THAT combined with the fact that spiderman has knocked him flying in one comic and not in another... AND that with the fact that wolverine DOES take damage at the rate of a human should mean that no matter how fast he heals, if he gets ko'ed then he can indeed be ko'ed.

wolverine airborne or not as nothing to do with his conciousness.. so why bring it up?

if you want to assume spidey's at his best then wolverine should be as well... if his healing's at his best then there are plenty of wolverine healing factor feats which I'm sure would be labeled pis as soon as brought to the table.. his healing isn't terribly inconsistent thought.. he heals mortal wounds fairly quickly.. the times where he takes longer to heal something are actually less consistent... I'm not getting into this with you again.. we've already been over it... more times than I can remember...

but wolverine also HEALS damage literally thousands, to tens of thousands of times faster than a regular human can.. and that makes a huges difference.. protected by an admantium skull it's extremely hard to KO him.. and before you bring in the real world to this debate. I'm going to remind you again.. we've already been over this.. no sense in trying to change our positions.. they haven't changed for well over a year now..

Originally posted by jinzin
no it can help regardles.. because we can pick apart pieces of their encounters to estimate the one presented here...

Which allows supporters, particularly on the wolverine side, to pick and choose parts that support their claims only... if it has little to do with the match or the character is clearly fighting outside of their behaviour, then its bad evidence all around...

Originally posted by jinzin
for instance.. making the claim that spiderman can KO wolvie through physical force is an incorrect claim because of the examples presented....

Who's going to ko who in a comic book between two star forces in marvel, plot devices and fanbases make it clearly bad evidence, the forum needs not worry about this...

Originally posted by jinzin
5 out of 7 occasions? that doesn't seem to bad to me.. :cnfused:

Wolverine seldomly hits spiderman when spiderman doesn't want him to, and I mean REALLY doesn't want him too. Like he will in this forum, top it off with the fact that spiderman is leagues faster, more maneuverable, agile, with precog, etc, suggests further that wolverine simply WILL not hit him given reasonable luck and circumstance.

Originally posted by jinzin
IF....

but this is exactly why the examples are important.. they provide evidence that indicates doing so is EXTREMELY difficult..

On which circumstances, AND I would like to add that the way I'm applying the webbing isn't shown... the way the writer and artist makes them fight isn't the ONLY way they fight, because these writers are not doctors or mathmaticians they are writers. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine airborne or not as nothing to do with his conciousness.. so why bring it up?

I said nothing on this, if anything him being knocked into the air would be better than him being forced against something and hit...

Originally posted by jinzin
if you want to assume spidey's at his best then wolverine should be as well...

Spiderman at his best dodges everything wolverine does and webs him up completely with no trauma... healing or not.

Originally posted by jinzin
if his healing's at his best then there are plenty of wolverine healing factor feats which I'm sure would be labeled pis as soon as brought to the table.. his healing isn't terribly inconsistent thought..

DD ko's him with a dumbell but namor cannot in the same month, and why we are on this subject, why can't class 100's simply knock him out the state? Oh I forgot, the jobber aura.

Comics WILL NEVER have a cash cow lose easily, they will never display the matches logically, it has to look good and looking good SELLS. Its a business not an experiment.

Originally posted by jinzin
he heals mortal wounds fairly quickly.. the times where he takes longer to heal something are actually less consistent... I'm not getting into this with you again.. we've already been over it... more times than I can remember...

Originally posted by jinzin
but wolverine also HEALS damage literally thousands, to tens of thousands of times faster than a regular human can..

When he's fighting cosmics or getting hit by nukes he is, but when fighting daredevil and cap he isn't.

Originally posted by jinzin
and that makes a huges difference..

It would if it was consistant.

Originally posted by jinzin
protected by an admantium skull it's extremely hard to KO him..

Originally posted by jinzin
and before you bring in the real world to this debate.

No just logic because you can't debate without it...

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm going to remind you again.. we've already been over this.. no sense in trying to change our positions.. they haven't changed for well over a year now..

Originally posted by Dizzle
"Top of their game" suggest using PIS? Consistant feats are sometimes PIS, inconsistant feats are sometimes perfectly good examples of one character's powers. Most of the time, Silver Surfer and Flash forget they can react at beyond lightspeed. Champion forgets he has been training for millenia, etc etc etc. [/B]

🤨 I don't follow this logic... at all...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Doc Ock has computers controlling each of his arms independantly. I'd say that's outweigh good smelling. That's 4 of them, conveniently enough... And that was Xavier exercising hyperbole anyway,[/B]

that's another brash assessment and specualtion.. you don't know it's hyperbole.. who else has ever read logan's mind when in berserker rage?

Originally posted by Dizzle
not Logan actually beating 4 chess computers. His AI are plenty intelligent when it comes to fighting, so yes, his skill is matched fairly well. The arms themselves do. Ock's frail human form, unfortunately, does not. I never said it was as simple as "Spdierman beats Ock, Spiderman beats Wolverine". I said Ock is faster than Wolverine, Spiderman dodges Ock. Therefore, Spiderman dodges Wolverine. .[/B]

again.. not entirely accurate or supported by feats..

and again.. it's not that black and white...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Once again, consistancy does not equal accurate. Wolverine should not be able to take a nuke, but he can reform from having all of his organs but his skin and skeleton liquefied? In less than a second? It's physically impossible for a healing factor that is essentially human, but faster. Consistant feat, but still PIS used to make the fights interesting.[/B]

those aren't the consistent feats to go by.. so why use them to make a point? 🤨

Originally posted by Dizzle
Good point, actually... I never did say that Spiderman can beat Wolverine solely because he can beat Ock, however. I brought him in solely as an example of something that would be very very hard to dodge that Spiderman DOES dodge. It wasn't necessarily in beating him, but in the fact taht he CAN dodge the tentacles. However, that also brings in the "are they always working to potential?" question... I didn't think, my apologies. .[/B]

again.. you just claimed that spiderman CAN dodge the tenticals.. but how do we know that this incident isn't PIS for dock ock? thus his dodging tenticals can't even be used as evidence going by your standard ❌.... but if he CAN dodge them... then wolverine CAN hit spiderman as he's shown he could do..

the main question is.. how did you come to the conclussion that spiderman can dodge them in the first place? how do you know spiderman can do it?

Originally posted by Dizzle
"Everything I've got" only applied to how hard he was hitting. It had NOTHING to do with how intelligently Spiderman was fighting. Beast is fighting Bishop. Beast knows Bishop absorbs kinetic energy. He runs up to Bishop and punches Bishop as hard as he can. Bishop liquefies him. He's using "everything he's got" in the one blow, yet he's clearly not fighting in an intelligent manner.[/B]

I've given him "everything" I've got.. could that not be interpretted to include intelligence as well?

Originally posted by Dizzle
You're not arguing that in SvFL, yet you ARE arguing it for WOlverine vs. Spidey. Your following "consistancy" is basically saying "It's happened fora good percentage of the time, therefore it WILL happen that way". Wolverine has hit Spiderman in a good percentage of their fights. Spiderman has beaten Firelord in 100% of their fights. Both are therefore "consistant" right? Despite the fact that PIS and additional circumstances are involved heavily in both?.[/B]

not that it WILL happen but that it is most likely to happen again until proven otherwise...

the difference between the firelors example and the wolverine one is that spiderman had a number of plot devices used as weapons working in his favor to overcome firelord.. when wolverine overcomes spiderman he does it by himself...
that alone changes things greatly..

Originally posted by Dizzle
Crossovers are disregarded because they are typically filled with PIS. Many of the fights that you use as support are filled with PIS. Nonfanvoted crossovers are disregarded because they involve a lot of PIS, not because they are out of continuity.[/B]

if they were canon they COULD be used.. because they are not canon. it's hard to say.. you claims for their use are based off specualtion.. they do indeed have quite a bit of PIS IMHO.... I agree.. but would you not also agree that cross-comapany crossovers are different from intercompany ones?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Has he outsped anyone with both Spiderman's level of reactions AND superstrength? Logically, every hit he takes will knock Logan a little ways. So while he can stand there and anticipate Speed Demon's attack, he can't even stand there against Spiderman.[/B]

and second:
falsy dychotomy.. you're assuming he HAS to outspeed spiderman to hit him.. he doesn't he can wear him down.. or draw him in..

Originally posted by Dizzle
Fighting to his fullest mentally, not physically.[/B]

everything would seem to imply... everything.. unless his brain conviniently shuts down like his spider sense does.. (any time he's losing.. lol)

Originally posted by Dizzle
PIS in Spiderman's favor? 🤨 How? Wolverine rips through webs, when they were holding him to the wall in a spot that he could not possibly have reached. Spiderman's spider sense either does not go off or he does not react to it. Spiderman fights like an idiot. Yup, everything's in his favor all right.[/B]

lol I wrote that funky.. my bad.. I meant to say I'd have to agree to an abundance of pis... therefore my agreeing to such would be in spiderman's favor because doing so would discard the feats... I don't agree that there was tons of PIS... everything can and has been explained through the grand mess of consistency...

wolverine was against a wall.. by strands.. we don't even see the webbing connecting his arms to the wall... that's always just been assumed.. but again it was organic webbing.. takes time to set.. more time than wolverine allowed for...
another fals dycotomy on the spidersense thing.. it assumes there's no possible way with wolverine's attributes that one can hit spiderman.. that's not true yet again thanks to consistency...
ans spiderman fighting like an idiot when wolverine either lets spiderman hit him or forgets to wave his arm out infront of him?..hmmmm

Originally posted by Dizzle
Wolverine's wrists were webbed, Spiderman had to break him out. .[/B]

wasn't a fight.. isn't valid...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Wolverine was webbed between two buildings, Wolverine had to wait for them to dissolve..[/B]

I have that issue.. he gets our before they dissolve.. 😕

that was the whole point of hurting himself....

Originally posted by Dizzle
Wolverine actually initiated the fight, Spiderman jumped over him before webbing him. With that much warning, Wolverine must be one slow little kid when he can shred it easily when ready for it. Oh wait... Has he ever blocked stuff like machine gun fire? This stuff engulfed Hulk within a second or so, it's easily as fast as bullets.[/B]

he was in mid conversation.. not much of a fight.. 🙄

there you go again.. using a feat as a standard of evidence and discarding your own standard.. completely engulfing the hulk in a second with webbing is physically impossible... you can't consistenly argue against feats if you're using them to support a point... 🤨

tell me that too was on purpose..

Originally posted by Dizzle
Are they anywhere near as fast as Spiderman? Flexible? Agile?Anything resembling precognition? Nope. They're about as strong, nothing more. And they stab through Wolverine's gut. They don't tear it out...[/B]

actually cyber's as fast.. sabretooth's faster. flexability and agility are neccessities to gut someone? there's that strawman again..
sabretooth was AS strong before his upgrades he's easily surpassed spiderman by now.. cyber was a little stronger...

tearing out wolverine's gut isn't credible anyways.. even with bloodlust on they still preform within character...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Characters are made more powerful when fighting stronger characters, and weaker and slower when fighting less powerful opponents. Head to head is, once again, not a good comparison. [/B]

so..

then how do you make a good assessment?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Which allows supporters, particularly on the wolverine side, to pick and choose parts that support their claims only... if it has little to do with the match or the character is clearly fighting outside of their behaviour, then its bad evidence all around...

Who's going to ko who in a comic book between two star forces in marvel, plot devices and fanbases make it clearly bad evidence, the forum needs not worry about this...

Wolverine seldomly hits spiderman when spiderman doesn't want him to, and I mean REALLY doesn't want him too. Like he will in this forum, top it off with the fact that spiderman is leagues faster, more maneuverable, agile, with precog, etc, suggests further that wolverine simply WILL not hit him given reasonable luck and circumstance.

On which circumstances, AND I would like to add that the way I'm applying the webbing isn't shown... the way the writer and artist makes them fight isn't the ONLY way they fight, because these writers are not doctors or mathmaticians they are writers. Plain and simple.

I said nothing on this, if anything him being knocked into the air would be better than him being forced against something and hit...

Spiderman at his best dodges everything wolverine does and webs him up completely with no trauma... healing or not.

DD ko's him with a dumbell but namor cannot in the same month, and why we are on this subject, why can't class 100's simply knock him out the state? Oh I forgot, the jobber aura.

Comics WILL NEVER have a cash cow lose easily, they will never display the matches logically, it has to look good and looking good SELLS. Its a business not an experiment.

I agree, but spiderman does mortal damage faily quickly as well.

When he's fighting cosmics or getting hit by nukes he is, but when fighting daredevil and cap he isn't.

It would if it was consistant.

Trivial difference with blunt/concussive force...

No just logic because you can't debate without it...

Well I guess you give up then...

it has nothing to do about giving up my friend.. it's simply a matter of the fact:
even in this last post you've presented nothing that we haven't been over at least half a dozen times already in the last year..

I'm not trying to be offensive here but:

you keep bringing up the SAME points..
i keep giving the SAME counterpoints...
and you keep asking the SAME question...
and I keep ansering the SAME questions...

if the answers haven't gotten through to you yet then that's simply not going to change and I accept that.. but there's no logical reason to continue to debate with you because the debate never evolves... it's been the same redundant arguments for a year now.. there's no reason to reiderate what I've already stated and what you've already read over and over and over again.

DIZZLE... I'm not trying to cop out here.. all I ask is that we shorten down the arguments a bit.. (mainly due to time constraints for the holidays and such)

although.. again.. at this point I think you've displayed your position and argued it quite well..

though at the risk of sounding arrogant I say the same for myself.....

with my last reply to you I realized the same damn thing I told C here..

it's already getting redundant quick..

you think direct comparisons are not good to use...

I think they are...

nobody seems to be changing their minds so there's no further need to riederate.. this has been an interesting debate on understanding better where you're coming from.. I simply don't agree with your P.O.V. with that.. I'll just assume we can just agree to disagree on this particular instance.

Originally posted by jinzin
it has nothing to do about giving up my friend.. it's simply a matter of the fact:
even in this last post you've presented nothing that we haven't been over at least half a dozen times already in the last year..

I'm not trying to be offensive here but:

you keep bringing up the SAME points..
i keep giving the SAME counterpoints...
and you keep asking the SAME question...
and I keep ansering the SAME questions...

if the answers haven't gotten through to you yet then that's simply not going to change and I accept that.. but there's no logical reason to continue to debate with you because the debate never evolves... it's been the same redundant arguments for a year now.. there's no reason to reiderate what I've already stated and what you've already read over and over and over again.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And what new points do you expect from ANYONE at this point?

Spiderman has a bigger penis than Wolverine.

Originally posted by The Crab
Spiderman has a bigger penis than Wolverine.

i think someone pay's a lil to much attention to detail......... 😮

Originally posted by The Crab
Spiderman has a bigger penis than Wolverine.

actually when they bodyswiteched peter was shocked at the ...ermmmm "hefty load" he had to carry around as wolverine...lol..

Originally posted by jinzin
actually when they bodyswiteched peter was shocked at the ...ermmmm "hefty load" he had to carry around as wolverine...lol..

😂 Thats a plot device.

Originally posted by jinzin
actually when they bodyswiteched peter was shocked at the ...ermmmm "hefty load" he had to carry around as wolverine...lol..

Wolverine has the biggest jobber aura around and it has been said on another wolverine thread that most comics allow these characters to fight on a somewhat similar playing field despite the differences in abilities.

That said Wolverine gets let off the hook a TON more then any other character and if not for that piece would the play toy of all the high end people in marvel........(which of course isn't the case)

Spiderman 4 the Win!

"For when the lords storyline needed the impossible made possible it was done... For nothing was impossible to one who posseded the claws of six...."

".....and when the lord questioned reality it was changed... For his right was ALWAYS RITE..."

Taken from the book of our lord.....