Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by wolverine8888
nope they were talken wolverien was clearly not fighting and all the people on ur ****ing side admitt it was a non fight but ur to much of an idiot to understand any thing

Wolverine said "get out of my way before you get more than you can handle". Sounds like fighting words to me. At that point, Wolverine was done talking, and Spider-Man quipped, "Whatev" and proceeded to own.

But I guess his "hyper sense" which, according to you, allows him to tell in advance that his opponent is going to attack, was congested that day. Or maybe hyper-sense was just showing its benefits.

And why should it matter what other people "on my side" say? We are not monolithic, unlike Wolverine Cultists. 😆

not true at zaall ur taking words out of context. I own the ****in gcomic dont try and bullshit me. wolverine was warning him to stop and well piont at spiderman and tlak to him spiderman webbed him.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
not true at zaall ur taking words out of context. I own the ****in gcomic dont try and bullshit me. wolverine was warning him to stop and well piont at spiderman and tlak to him spiderman webbed him.

"Please, Mr. Spider-Man. Don't cause us to have to fight!"

(Note the period at the end of the sentence. Speakers of the English language might be familiar with this symbol. It means the speaker is done talking, as opposed to an ellipsis (...) which means a speaker "trailed off".)

Hypersense showing its benefits...

Guess he didn't smell that one coming! 😆

Yup...looks to me like Wolverine wasn't calling Spider-Man out at all on that one. Guess he didn't know it was coming at all, given that Spidey friggin jumped up into the air before he attacked (so vicious). 🙄

After all, it couldn't possibly be seen as Wolverine stepping to Spider-Man and getting embarrassed because Spidey was just way too fast for him to react to appropriately. (Hint : ✅ )

I think we're done with this "non-fight".

He's got a good point, he got owned... (ellipses)

OWNAGE!!!!

Hmmm I mean

Clearly a non fight.... our lord doeth not dirty his hands with low lvl muties...

Tell me about it...

soo well wolverine piont he says that hmmm wolverine clearly looks like he ready to fight ya with him all pionting and such. ya like i said non fight look at it if wolverine was gunan attack he would of had his claws out spiderman just shot he little webs right after wolverine said it shit.
clearly wolverine was not attack or even about to attack he was just warning spiderman. ur little pics show nuthing at all and even later on wolverine comments on how stupid spiderman is that he thinks he knows better when he doesent.
it was cearly not a fight nice try though.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
soo well wolverine piont he says that hmmm wolverine clearly looks like he ready to fight ya with him all pionting and such. ya like i said non fight look at it if wolverine was gunan attack he would of had his claws out spiderman just shot he little webs right after wolverine said it shit.
clearly wolverine was not attack or even about to attack he was just warning spiderman. ur little pics show nuthing at all and even later on wolverine comments on how stupid spiderman is that he thinks he knows better when he doesent.
it was cearly not a fight nice try though.

Hypersense? 🙄

Originally posted by Melnorme
Hypersense? 🙄

Forget that...how about any reaction time at all?

Face it...Wolverine stepped to Spider-Man, made a threat, and Spider-Man jumped over him (still no defense from Wolverine) and owned him. Sorry.

ya that allows u to tell ur oppnets mvoe sif ur actauly ready to fight. sense dont work liek spidersense. spidersense is always working but just like u or me if ur trying if u not paying attention u aint gunna hear or sense some thing but if ur read to fight and paying attention u will know it comming

Originally posted by Melnorme
Forget that...how about any reaction time at all?

Face it...Wolverine stepped to Spider-Man, made a threat, and Spider-Man jumped over him (still no defense from Wolverine) and owned him. Sorry.

? wolverimne pionted at spiderman tlaked to spiderman right after he was down or maby even during it spiderman shot his webs. in no way was wolverine read to fight.
u keep tryign to make this non fight into a fight and ur looking foolish

Originally posted by wolverine8888
ya that allows u to tell ur oppnets mvoe sif ur actauly ready to fight. sense dont work liek spidersense. spidersense is always working but just like u or me if ur trying if u not paying attention u aint gunna hear or sense some thing but if ur read to fight and paying attention u will know it comming

You claimed that his sense of smell allowed him to foresee future events. So it either does, or it doesn't.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
? wolverimne pionted at spiderman tlaked to spiderman right after he was down or maby even during it spiderman shot his webs. in no way was wolverine read to fight.
u keep tryign to make this non fight into a fight and ur looking foolish

"Excuse me, Wolverine?"
"Yes, Spider-Man?"
"I say, old chum, are you ready to engage in fisticuffs at this time?"
"Quite."
"Very good, chap! Then let's have at it!"
"Tallyho!"

😛

Originally posted by Melnorme
You claimed that his sense of smell allowed him to foresee future events. So it either does, or it doesn't.

it does but it not like ****ing spidersense u have to be ready and concentrating it is not auto matic. like night crawler has hit wolverine when wolverine was talken to him but as soon as wolverine was paying attention and ready he nail night crawler easiliy.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
it does but it not like ****ing spidersense u have to be ready and concentrating it is not auto matic. like night crawler has hit wolverine when wolverine was talken to him but as soon as wolverine was paying attention and ready he nail night crawler easiliy.

Considering Spider-Man had just said that he would fight Wolverine rather than give up the kid, and Wolverine said that he was willing to kick Spider-Man's ass, Wolverine clearly was ready to fight. Add to that the fact that Spider-Man vaulted over Wolverine before he even snagged his wrists with webbing, and wasn't just a straight fast attack (like spraying him in the face while standing there) and your case looks pretty flimsy.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
it does but it not like ****ing spidersense u have to be ready and concentrating it is not auto matic. like night crawler has hit wolverine when wolverine was talken to him but as soon as wolverine was paying attention and ready he nail night crawler easiliy.

Wait a minute I've been away from comics for a while but when did super hearing and smell allow you to see into the future?

Even Daredevils senses Don't see into the future and his senses are stronger than wolverines
It's what allows him to avoid Bullseye's attacks 95% of the time and even then it's just because he could hear the object leaving his hand and in what direction it was going in thanks to his ears and radar sense

Even with all those senses he still gets hit sometimes

Originally posted by jinzin
it's pis because it's clearly beyond his capabilities and has no consistent backing in feats nor stats..

your examples all neglect the consistency of their meetings...

It is impossible to explain Wolverine getting flciked by Hulk, much less smashed with a tree so hard that it makes a mushroom cloud. Not a singlke one. He says himself that he is rehealing ALL of his internal orgnas every time he is hit. No human healing could EVER do that; organs don't simply regrow themselves. Since Wolverine's healing is indeed HEALING, and not regeneration, he should logically NEVER takea shot from Hulk and live. It's a consistant feat, but physically impossible, by his character description.

spiderman HAS used his webbing on wolverine... webbings been proven innefective against a fighting wolverine... inneffectective any time wolverine wants out... spiderman's used webbing on 4 of their 6 enounters... it doesn't work on wolvie's claws..

The training room was filled with PIS. Spiderman webbed Wolverine between two buildings once, Wolverine could not escape until it dissolved. Spiderman webbed his wrists once. Later, he had to free Wolverine from them. Used well, Logan can be easily incapacitated by webs. Once again, it won't necessarily happen instantly, but after a good amount of time spent keeping away from Wolverine, Logan will get webbed. He's dodged bullets, but has he dodged something comparable to a constant stream of stuff moving at at LEAST bulelt like speed?

spidey letting wolverine hit him was an act of desperation.. he was out of options... why would that be deemed pis?

Yes it is. Spiderman was hitting as hard as he can, but using all of one's strength is not related in any way to fighting intelligently. What if he had pulled out his web shooter when Logan was laid out on the headstone?

spiderman's spider sense has worked in all their encounters..

spiderman's spider sense hasn't been mentioned to be ignored ANYWHERE.. that's pure speculation....

Except for the parts where he, you know, doesn't even begin to dodge, though Spider Sense allows him to begin dodging even before an attack begins... I said the only explanation other than it magically not working would be him ignoring it. There would be no reason for either to happen, so it's PIS.

I'm not saying I'm an authority here.. but if somone's going to claim that pis exists then one has to have a standard for what is and isn't pis.. that much i know we can agree to... so then would you also not agree that wolverine taking a nuke is an extreme compared to your (albiet incorrect) examples?

PIS is plot induced stupidity, one character acting below or above his or her capabilities, so as to advance or enhnace the plot. It isn't much of a fight if Spiderman just dances around Wolverine and webs his airways, is it?

I realize that.. but lets look at this...

one: wolverine has hit spiderman or gotten his hands on him on 8 occasions actually...

two: wolverine has consistently hit or touched spiderman in their encounters... secret wars is the only exception and incidently enough not only the first time wolverine dealt with peter but an occasion where logan admits to not wanting to hurt parker...

three: your examples are riddled with plot devices or circumstances that allowed for such a thing to take place.. wolverine vs. bullets was already explained to you... wolverine vs. dd wasn't a knockout.. so now you've got one measily example (elk).. and it doesn't even have anything to do with spiderman....

1) 8 times, many involving outside circumstances and PIS.

2) Consistancy vs. Accuracy. Silver Surfer fails to use his speed VERY consistantly He also forgets that he CAN expend his energy and fly without his board. Again, this has happened several times. But he can do both. Anytime he says he is "too slow" when not talking about him crossing a distance of a light year or three in an instant, it's PIS. It can be consistant, but still not accurate to the scope of his powers. Same goes for Spiderman and Wolverine. Spiderman has proven faster than he is portrayed in those direct confrontations, so regardless of how many times WOlverine hits him, it should almost never happen, WITHOUT plot devices and outside circumstances.

3) Yes they are. So are yours, which, once again, was my point. An elk shouldn't KO Wolverine, Spiderman's spider sense should always work, Spiderman shouldn't be stupid enough to let himself be tackled.

no your examples are... bullets are not spiderman.. elk is not spiderman.. dd is not spiderman.. and the same circumstances that led to your exmples and how they took place isn't given to spiderman..

Spiderman hits harder than bullets. Spiderman hits harder than elk. Spiderman hits harder than Daredevil. By a LOT. That's not a good point. They are all PIS, but it's something (people with less strength than Spidey) that has happened repeatedly.

actually cod ocs been "stated" at having lesser speeds than wolverine... as was evident in their fight when wolverine took over as part of the ff for a while...

Doc Ock jobbed... His claws move at 90 m/s, and are independently controlled by 4 AI's. Two grab Wolvie's arms, one guts him repeatedly. Ock holds a martini with the fourth.

doc ock blocks bullets while wolverine cuts them in half they would both appear to be very accurate...

Ock's are mostly blunt, while Wolverine's are claws. Basically, all Wolverine does is block them. They're just sharp enough that the bullets get sliced in half in the process.

actually I've read a number of spiderman comics.. spiderman wins many of his fights with doc ock via plot device.. he is consistently hit by those tenticals or wrapped up in them... it's a misconception that he does this consistently because everyone takes into account the end result rather than how the end result was attained... it's an easy mistake to make..

But does he dodge them via plot device? Ock comes out on top because he IS more powerful than SM. The fact that Spiderman can dodge him, though not necessarily indefinitely, is an example of his speed. I'm not saying "SM can beat Doc, so he can beat Wolverine too". I'm saying the tentacles outclass Wolverine in most categories relating to overall striking ability.

however.. still wolverine defeated doc ock... but what does that prove? nothing? why? cause dock ock IS NOT SPIDERMAN... spiderman has different attributes that help him in fights that wouldn't help dock ock right? same thing applies to wolverine.. this is exactly what I mean when I say it's not about JUST who's stronger and faster... not when these characters are so much more than one demensional.. that is.. they have so many attributes and abilities that it's hard to say the strongest and fastest win every time.. wolverine vs. spiderman is a perfect example of why...

I never said Spiderman could beat Wolverine solely because he can beat Ock. I said the tentacles are faster than Wolverine, and so Spiderman has indeed performed better than in the encounter between himself and Wolverine. It's an example of a high end feat, as opposed to a low end one...

Originally posted by jinzin
and just because it happened and people had problems with it doesn't dictate that it was induced by PIS...

Depends on the reasons they have problems with it. If they don't like it because one character is performing above or below his capabilities, well, that's the very definition of PIS. Some feats SHOULD be disregarded, while others should not.

which is ironic.. using characters at the tops of their games is almost a plea for the use of what some consider to be pis events as evidence... which is why i've made such a big deal about consistency....

"Top of their game" suggest using PIS? Consistant feats are sometimes PIS, inconsistant feats are sometimes perfectly good examples of one character's powers. Most of the time, Silver Surfer and Flash forget they can react at beyond lightspeed. Champion forgets he has been training for millenia, etc etc etc.

not accurate though.. like I just said.. it's not that simple when dealing with characters that have more than one demension worth discussing.. does dock ock have wolverine's enhanced senses? no.. how about his ability to come up with advanced battle strategies capable of beating 4 super computers at chess and at once in the time frame of a few seconds? maybe... does he have wolverine's fighting ability? damage soak? see it's more complicated than that alone...

Doc Ock has computers controlling each of his arms independantly. I'd say that's outweigh good smelling. That's 4 of them, conveniently enough... And that was Xavier exercising hyperbole anyway, not Logan actually beating 4 chess computers. His AI are plenty intelligent when it comes to fighting, so yes, his skill is matched fairly well. The arms themselves do. Ock's frail human form, unfortunately, does not. I never said it was as simple as "Spdierman beats Ock, Spiderman beats Wolverine". I said Ock is faster than Wolverine, Spiderman dodges Ock. Therefore, Spiderman dodges Wolverine.

see this is where consistency really counts though.... strength is a factor that is one demensional... which is why the more consistant feat is more valid to use. on the other hand, wolverine got KOed by an elk once.. and that's fine.. but it only happened once... spiderman can't say the same for getting hit by wolverine....

Once again, consistancy does not equal accurate. Wolverine should not be able to take a nuke, but he can reform from having all of his organs but his skin and skeleton liquefied? In less than a second? It's physically impossible for a healing factor that is essentially human, but faster. Consistant feat, but still PIS used to make the fights interesting.

and that's the funny thing.. you seem to think that the use of one character vs. character fight isn't a good place to draw examples from but you're using one right now with doc ock... you're displaying yourself to be a hypocrite and you didn't even realize it... you're so quick to give credit to spiderman that you forgot: going by your own standards we should discard any loss ocks ever had against spidey or any time that spidey has dodged his tenticals etc etc... thus spidey's feats over dock ock aren't acceptable as evidence... but you still used them to prove a point...
now things ARE getting completely contradictory.. by your own standards of course (of which I don't agree with.. so I need not worry about the contradictory nature of it.. but I did find it interesting..)...

Good point, actually... I never did say that Spiderman can beat Wolverine solely because he can beat Ock, however. I brought him in solely as an example of something that would be very very hard to dodge that Spiderman DOES dodge. It wasn't necessarily in beating him, but in the fact taht he CAN dodge the tentacles. However, that also brings in the "are they always working to potential?" question... I didn't think, my apologies.

Hmm, I AM a hypocrite. SWEET!

absolutely not.. the only reason I may appear partial in this thread is because I'm backing the consistent evidence.. unfortunately that evidence IS in wolverine's favor.. if it wasn't I wouldn't be in support of wolverine... just as I had to change my opinion on the matter of daredevil vs. wolverine two days ago...

Not going to get into it, because if one really thinks about it, everyone's a little biased one way or another, and NOT just because one thinks that a particular character "should" win.

that in and of itself is an opinionated statment.. which has evidence that goes against it considering the "everything I've got statment"

they're subpar because spiderman didn't win... that's not objective...

"Everything I've got" only applied to how hard he was hitting. It had NOTHING to do with how intelligently Spiderman was fighting. Beast is fighting Bishop. Beast knows Bishop absorbs kinetic energy. He runs up to Bishop and punches Bishop as hard as he can. Bishop liquefies him. He's using "everything he's got" in the one blow, yet he's clearly not fighting in an intelligent manner.

I'm not arguing that it happened.. nor am I arguing that it's 100% consistent.. because it is...

but you have to realize that spiderman had blatent plot devices and circumstances in his favor helping him to win.. and without them he would not have one.. wolverine has not been given such plot devices etc etc vs. spiderman however and that's why your comparison isn't an accurate one...

You're not arguing that in SvFL, yet you ARE arguing it for WOlverine vs. Spidey. Your following "consistancy" is basically saying "It's happened fora good percentage of the time, therefore it WILL happen that way". Wolverine has hit Spiderman in a good percentage of their fights. Spiderman has beaten Firelord in 100% of their fights. Both are therefore "consistant" right? Despite the fact that PIS and additional circumstances are involved heavily in both?

if my argument were flawed as you claim I would be using cross company non-canon crossovers to support it.. I haven't.. and thus the flaw that you THINK you found in my argument can't stand on it's own...

canon deviates from non-canon as canon events become part of the character's repsective history.. this is why the consistency of the wolverine/spiderman showings is so important...

Crossovers are disregarded because they are typically filled with PIS. Many of the fights that you use as support are filled with PIS. Nonfanvoted crossovers are disregarded because they involve a lot of PIS, not because they are out of continuity.

yeah I know.. that's the point...

just like logan has shown himself capible of dodging things faster than spidey and tagging things/people faster than spidey...
another reason why direct comparisons are so important...
without them everything else is just specualation but because of the range of feats that each character has there will always be evidence to underdetermine other evidence...

Has he outsped anyone with both Spiderman's level of reactions AND superstrength? Logically, every hit he takes will knock Logan a little ways. So while he can stand there and anticipate Speed Demon's attack, he can't even stand there against Spiderman.

namely.. because he claims the exact opposite of that... 😕

Fighting to his fullest mentally, not physically.

no.. Id have to agree to an abundance of pis in spiderman's favor for your point to be a correct one.. I don't....

PIS in Spiderman's favor? 🤨 How? Wolverine rips through webs, when they were holding him to the wall in a spot that he could not possibly have reached. Spiderman's spider sense either does not go off or he does not react to it. Spiderman fights like an idiot. Yup, everything's in his favor all right.

he shredded through them actually.. between spidey and venom webbing's been used on wolverine 5 or 6 times.. it however has worked none of those times.. unless of course you count mk spidey/wolverine 4part mini... which wasn't even a vs. scenario...

Wolverine's wrists were webbed, Spiderman had to break him out. Wolverine was webbed between two buildings, Wolverine had to wait for them to dissolve. Wolverine actually initiated the fight, Spiderman jumped over him before webbing him. With that much warning, Wolverine must be one slow little kid when he can shred it easily when ready for it. Oh wait... Has he ever blocked stuff like machine gun fire? This stuff engulfed Hulk within a second or so, it's easily as fast as bullets.

this is funny.. i mean aside from the fact that spiderman as a hard enough time not getting punched by logan in h2h.... cyber and sabretooth are on spiderman's level in terms of physiology... hell they're even better fighters... do they beat logan easily by gutting him? no...

Are they anywhere near as fast as Spiderman? Flexible? Agile?Anything resembling precognition? Nope. They're about as strong, nothing more. And they stab through Wolverine's gut. They don't tear it out...

do you haven any direct comparison to even help make that claim? no...

Characters are made more powerful when fighting stronger characters, and weaker and slower when fighting less powerful opponents. Head to head is, once again, not a good comparison.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Wrong again. I'm asking you to show that it's subjective. Yet again, you have failed to recognize this and/or accomplish it. This is now no less than the fifth time this has happened. Therefore, you have had trouble with such, despite your claim to the contrary.

nothing but a "nu-uh' argument on your behalf.. your use of feats is subjective.. not only is it self evident but I've explained it... if you still can't grasp the concept, you're clearly beyond my or anyone elses help... but hey.. you think you've never been wrong and that's what matters..

Originally posted by Melnorme
If 2 paragraphs of three sentences each is a "ramble"...well, I just don't know what to say. I guess it explains your apparently spelling, grammar, and comprehension skills. 😆.

Originally posted by Melnorme
This was in "Spider-Man" by MacFarlane? That wasn't even a slam. Wolverine was crowding him...Spidey could have flicked him away like an insect, as he did in Secret Wars, if he chose to, and Wolverine would not have been able to stop it.:

funny.. looks like a slam to me.. 😕

http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcfarlane9qr.jpg

and those claws probably would have stopped peter realll quick.. 😉

Originally posted by Melnorme
In a series where it has been noted to be badly written, that the stab was PIS, and also a training session where Spider-Man was going easy, and thus, not Bloodlusted. But, I'll give you that as your 1 "big victory"..

spiderman was going no more easy than wolverine.
it was a sparring session... which implies a different meaning to training session...
and finally.. it was no more badly written than secret wars...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Spider-Man didn't know that was Wolverine (in fact, he thought he was attacking some impostor) and again, his spider-sense didn't trigger in that fight. Wolverine saw Spider-Man coming and, more or less, "flagged him down". It also ended in a stalemate..

spiderman didn't refer to his spider sense so it didn't trigger? jeeze I guess spiderman's spider sense hasn't worked in 60% of his fights when it isn't drawn in or mentioned speciffically.. regardless of him doing feats that require the spider sense in order to work... 🙄.. it was working.. it doesn't work like spiderman fanboys want it to however... and it's consistent in terms of spiderman vs. extremely well trained fighters...
he was attacking an "imposter" whom he felt he needed to hit hard enough to crumble brick and dent metal.. go figure...
he got the jump on wolvie and it didn't work
wolverine was holding back too... it's not a stalemate cause wolverine hit him...

if he wasn't holding back considerably this is what would have happened..

http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideykill26wm.jpg
or this
http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideykill40gl.jpg

Originally posted by Melnorme
As has been proven before, and corroborated by others, an impossible manuever. And more importantly, a stalemate..

you mean like how breaking logan's neck is impossible?...
anyways...
I explained just how he could have done that.. it was ignored as always...

and it wasn't a stalemate.. spiderman collapsing onto the ground does not dictate a stalemate.. 🤨

Originally posted by Melnorme
Funny, Logan thought Spider-Man could break his neck, too. I guess he was operating under a false premise as well.

as cresh pointed out on many occasions logan eventually owned up to flat out lying to spiderman so he didn't have to "hurt the kid"
the admantium bonding proccess is well known.. no matter how many anti-wolverine debators HOPE otherwise..

Originally posted by Melnorme
"We're lucky that's all [Spider-Man] was trying to do! He really clobbered us! He made us look like fools--! Like amateurs!"
-Wolverine on his encounter with Spider-Man in The Secret Wars
Yes...clearly "no biggie" 😆
According to Wolverine's own words (and he's got...what, a century of experience at this point?), that's one for me.

yep that's one I gave to you.... and no it's not a biggie.. wolverine admitting that they were made to look like fools isn't that big of a deal.. they were... does that mean that wolverine was anywhere near finished in that "fight"? no.. hell no... and there's no evidence to support that kind of argument.. especially considering he was up two panals after getting hit...

as for experience.. spiderman is more experienced in super hero fights than wolverine at this point... wolverine's experience fighting ninjas.. or fighting in wars isn't quite the same...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Wolverine was not mid-conversation. It was after the conversation was done...and the blasts from the "omega level mutant" 14-year old with zero experience had healed at that point...no clear visible damage..

there was no clear visable damage to wolverine in his secret wars appearance with spidey.. yet you claim victory there.. hmmmm

anyway.. burns can appear to be as though regular skin in comics.. the actions speak in this incident.. are you arguing that wolverine's skin durability>>>> omega level blast? honestly...

and yes it was in mid conversation.. conversation requires two participating parties.. wolverine made a statement and waited for a response... he was trying to avoid a confrontation... spiderman provoked one yet again....

Originally posted by Melnorme
Spider-Man (Webs are a plot device now? Hardly...they are part of him) webbed him up like he was a rank amateur, and held him there until the webs dissolved an hour later. That's two...

webs?... hey there strawman! 🙂

no I never said webs were the plot device.. but the walls are... 🙄

Originally posted by Melnorme
So, again so that you don't get lost again. The count is 2-to-1. Spider-Man wins!

I can't spell.. but you can't count.. wolverine wins.. 4 to 2...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Oh, and next time, please try to show how I'm being subjective. I'm still waiting, and you just look worse and worse as you dodge with every post.

it's like you said.. "you can lead a horse to water but..."

I really don't understand the premise of this argument, just because someone beat someone in a match means they will here? There is no "defeat xxxx ability"... Pointless premise.