Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Started by jinzin1,019 pages
Originally posted by samishe
That's what i can't understand. If his organs are damaged then it should take him atleast half an hour to heal them, not few seconds.

How does that equate in your mind?

Him healing from mortal wounds in seconds is absolutely nothing new.

Every time he takes a long time to heal from something it's either caused he's taxed out, his powers don't work, or it's if it's not explained and it happens it's an inconsistancy that falls into the "less often" category....

I mean that's just what he can do, not much point in debating against his super power when he's ben shown to use said power at ridiculous rates more often than not...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Meh, it's fairly inconsistant pretty much all the time. The Hulk fights are definitely among his highest showings there, though I'm not going to argue that Spiderman could overload him.

well it's not entirely more inconsistant than anything else going on in comics now days, It's just easier to gripe about because no one likes logan.. but the more consistant speed of the healing factor is faster than what people are trying to give him credit for, and if we're to assume he's at his best well... logic just dictates that we have to assume the more prominant consistancy is the more accurate one.

Originally posted by Dizzle
That's a very good explanation, actually... I'd still say that the Wonderman example is a very good way to illustrate the limits of Logan's healing though.

You mean a brick hitting him so fast that he doesn't have time to react or heal back from the previous hit?
You may be surprised to learn that I actually agree.. I remember coming to the conclussion that were wolverine to simply stand there and LET someone punch him without moving to roll with it, he'd probably most likely be KOed by a class 50 hit to the face.
NOW... I'd like to see wonderman try that with a riled up logan... I think we might find the results to be a great deal different.

Originally posted by Dizzle
I'm not going to lie, I'm a big fan of the "it's comics" argument myself these days. Mostly because Batman can outmuscle a trained tiger and rip a large pipe off of the ground, but hey, whatever works.

Batman being capible of superhuman feats while retaining his humanity is nothing new..

the guy kicks down reinforced steel doors, outwrestles WW, outfights her amazons, holds up 1,000 pound ceilings, and punches out new gods for christ's sake... and while we all see that it might not make the most sense, wehave come to learn to accept it because he's done this kind of crap SO damn much...

the same way logan's skin doesn't eradicate when hit by a class 100.

However the fact remains, If you're going to apply real world logic to one thing than it has to apply to all things... that being the case, super powers don't exist, and wolverine doesn't have to worry about being hit by a class 100 anyway.

Originally posted by Dizzle
There's still a fine line though... If Batman were to begin flying under his own power and punch out Superman, it would still be PIS, regardless of the number of times he did it.

Not so, remember sabretooth? the guy started as a very near human and non superpowered character.... All he had was hightened senses and claws... But he kept sluging it out with superpowered characters, punching steel doors down, and hey whatyaknow? Over the course of a single year he went from being KOed by black cat to 3-punch KOing rogues ass silly... Now it's just generally excepted that he was a superhuman mutant all that time.... It's called character evolution.. if Bat's were to start doing this on a fairly consistant and generally regular basis you'd simply have to start excepting it or come to grips with the fact that you were being irrational about a fictional media.

Originally posted by Dizzle
I'll accept Logan's healing doing things that it "shouldn't" if it indeed is just an accelerated human healing factor, but I won't sit quietly when all of his flesh remains intact when a nuke gets dropped on him.

Well for starters, it's not "just an accelerated human healing factor" or he 1) couldn't heal organs, and 2) would be covered from head to toe in scarring literally.

Granted his healing factor may NOW be presented in a fasion that contradicts some past showings.. but again, he's doing it more and more consistantly by the day...
We now that he's a mutant, we know that mutations can CONTINUE to mutate over time, Why can't we chalk up his upgraded healing factor to a furtherance of his mutation?
More to the point... Why is it so hard for some people to just except that the character has evolved?
remember when wolverine first started? he was a 6 foot tall guy with claws attached to his gloves and no admantium or healing factor to speak of, should we assume that his healing factor and admantium skeleton are PIS in their entirety because they contradict how he was first presented? or should we just accept that the character has evolved? I'll levae that up to you, but I know which one I'll go with.

As for the nuke, I think you're thinking of the pants...
Also, was there any time frame given between the time we see him get his ass bombed to the time we see him after the bombing? I remember the bombing occured around morning or noonish and we see wolverine in the crater around afternoon... His having healed in that amount of time seems to be fairly accurate..
what was more inaccurate was him healing from having all his flesh eradicated directly before the bomb and healing over the course of a conversation.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Wolverine's body is something... As is the ground, or in this setting, the walls of the cage. It doesn't have to be the first shot that gets him, but playing smart, Wolverine shouldn't come anywhere near Spiderman for the entire fight. Logically, since Spiderman is fast enough to keep away from Wolverine, and Wolverine has no ranged attacks, Spiderman should be able to dance around him and web his various parts to the arena at his leisure. Spiderman's webs are fast as hell, and blocking a bullet and blocking a stream of fluid are two different things entirely.

Wolverine would have to start out in an uncomprimising position for something like webbing him to himself to take place...or spiderman would need a bit of luck, either way that's not favorable as a scenario...
as far as cutting the webbing while it's being shot at him....
Taskmaster who was slower, had less stamina, and only one blade cut through the webs as they came at him, Spiderman even acknowledged that he figured that taskmaster would do it, (Another, {though irrelivant} example would be during his recent show he had to fight a swordsman(lady) who did the same thing.), I fail to see how wolverine who has more speed, skill, stamina, and blades couldn't do the same.

Originally posted by Dizzle
He DID web him into an inescapable position though...

well 1) he needed 2 walls to do it.
and 2) it obviousy wasn't inescapable as wolverine DID esacpe from it.... 😕

Originally posted by Dizzle
Wolverine had to wait for the webs to start dissolving before he could escape,

that's nothing but wishful (and perhaps bias) thinking on your part... there's nothing to support or suggest the notion that the webs had been weakened since wolverine had been webbed... Infact it's suggested that the webbing was no more forgiving to wolverine than it had been when he was first webbed... We do however know that wolverine did get out when he came to accept that he'd have to hurt himself to do it.

Originally posted by Dizzle
it was very clearly a Spiderman victory.

It was no more a spiderman victory than when wolverine grabbed spidey by the throat and slammed his head against a tree.
both parties were being an inconvenience to their counterparts
neither were prepared to be assaulted by their assailant (though spiderman has his spider sense for the good that did him)
and both appeared to be at a serious disadvantage without any real fight having taken place....

Originally posted by Dizzle
Also, Spiderman doesn't really have the means to KO Wolverine. His options are incapacitaion,

not by spiderman

Originally posted by Dizzle
which has been done, or killing him, which obviously has not.

How the hell is he going to kill wolverine again?

If there is a floor to this arena then there is a surface for Spiderman to web Wolverine to.

Also Taskmaster's big power is his ability to watch and mimic someone else's powers and attacks. Taskmaster studied SM enough to not only know his fighting methods but can enhance his own agility/speed from that.

So anyway I also illustrated several pages back that Spiderman could just as easily Web Wolverine's mouth as he did the same thing to the Lizard.

Originally posted by Soleran
If there is a floor to this arena then there is a surface for Spiderman to web Wolverine to.

no arguments there.. but how likely is this going to happen?

not likely at all....

Originally posted by Soleran
Also Taskmaster's big power is his ability to watch and mimic someone else's powers and attacks.

okay... so what? it's not like he "mimic"ed spiderman's webs back at him or anything...

Originally posted by Soleran
Taskmaster studied SM enough to not only know his fighting methods

are you somehow implying that after so many encounters and team-ups wolverine wouldn't be aware of spiderman's meathods? 🤨

Originally posted by Soleran
but can enhance his own agility/speed from that.

up until his short series and his expirement in using x2 speed he never ascending anything past peak human levels.

and none of what you said equates to wolverine NOT being ablwe to cut through those webs so what's the point of this post exactly?

Originally posted by Soleran
So anyway I also illustrated several pages back that Spiderman could just as easily Web Wolverine's mouth as he did the same thing to the Lizard.

Does lizard's brain process things that move at the speed of bullets "in slow motion"?
Is his mouth as small as wolverines?
Does he even have the same anatomy as wolverine?
Healing factor?
no...

well then what the hell did that pic prove other than he could do it once against lizard out of a dozen fights..

That pic didn't prove a damn thing, and is WAAAAAYYYY more irrelavant than any of the pics already displayed where wolverine's hitting him in the face etc etc etc...

Healing factor won't help when you're not breathing. Also, Spider-Man is very accurate. He probably won't miss with the lung webbing.

Originally posted by jinzin
well it's not entirely more inconsistant than anything else going on in comics now days, It's just easier to gripe about because no one likes logan.. but the more consistant speed of the healing factor is faster than what people are trying to give him credit for, and if we're to assume he's at his best well... logic just dictates that we have to assume the more prominant consistancy is the more accurate one.

I dunno, some characters seem to be a lot more consistant than others... Wolvie's healing is worse than many, but at the same, not even close to some others. (No, see, Superman was still holding back then... and then... and then too... and then let's give him reality warping powers...)

You mean a brick hitting him so fast that he doesn't have time to react or heal back from the previous hit?
You may be surprised to learn that I actually agree.. I remember coming to the conclussion that were wolverine to simply stand there and LET someone punch him without moving to roll with it, he'd probably most likely be KOed by a class 50 hit to the face.
NOW... I'd like to see wonderman try that with a riled up logan... I think we might find the results to be a great deal different.

Not really surprised... You ARE official KMC Champion #2...
Wait... You'd take Wolverine over Wonderman in an all out fight? I'd go as far as to say "how", given Wonderman's speed and past showings against Wolverine?

Batman being capible of superhuman feats while retaining his humanity is nothing new..

the guy kicks down reinforced steel doors, outwrestles WW, outfights her amazons, holds up 1,000 pound ceilings, and punches out new gods for christ's sake... and while we all see that it might not make the most sense, wehave come to learn to accept it because he's done this kind of crap SO damn much...

Many of his more ridiculous feats can be attributed to either him outsmarting someone (Metron was, for all intents and purposes, completely human) or to someone holding back because he IS human. (WW) The truly ridiculous stuff often has another explanation behind it. (Motherbox!!!)

the same way logan's skin doesn't eradicate when hit by a class 100.

However the fact remains, If you're going to apply real world logic to one thing than it has to apply to all things... that being the case, super powers don't exist, and wolverine doesn't have to worry about being hit by a class 100 anyway.

Meh, there's a fine line. Comic physics should have, at the very least, a LITTLE ground in real world physics, or none of it is even remotely believable, and it's that much less fun. I agree, he shouldn't disintegrate, but where does the line get crossed? Nukes? Stars? Planets exploding? Blasts from cosmic entities? There's always something that Wolverine should never, ever, ever heal from, just as there's always stuff that Batman should never be able to do.

Not so, remember sabretooth? the guy started as a very near human and non superpowered character.... All he had was hightened senses and claws... But he kept sluging it out with superpowered characters, punching steel doors down, and hey whatyaknow? Over the course of a single year he went from being KOed by black cat to 3-punch KOing rogues ass silly... Now it's just generally excepted that he was a superhuman mutant all that time.... It's called character evolution.. if Bat's were to start doing this on a fairly consistant and generally regular basis you'd simply have to start excepting it or come to grips with the fact that you were being irrational about a fictional media.

In this case, it's about who he's meant to fight. You can only have Hulk KO Wolverine with a glancing blow so many times. If someone is thrown into a crowd of enemies that are far above them, they will almost always adapt to meet the challenge in comics, regardless of how high the bar. Look at Mantis and Gamora, and even Karate Kid... And Batman's villains. (coughEMPERORJOKERcough) However, they won't just randomly gain powers for no reason, like Batman just getting up and flying around one day, as it isn't necessary for him to survive in his environment.

Well for starters, it's not "just an accelerated human healing factor" or he 1) couldn't heal organs, and 2) would be covered from head to toe in scarring literally.

Granted his healing factor may NOW be presented in a fasion that contradicts some past showings.. but again, he's doing it more and more consistantly by the day...
We now that he's a mutant, we know that mutations can CONTINUE to mutate over time, Why can't we chalk up his upgraded healing factor to a furtherance of his mutation?
More to the point... Why is it so hard for some people to just except that the character has evolved?
remember when wolverine first started? he was a 6 foot tall guy with claws attached to his gloves and no admantium or healing factor to speak of, should we assume that his healing factor and admantium skeleton are PIS in their entirety because they contradict how he was first presented? or should we just accept that the character has evolved? I'll levae that up to you, but I know which one I'll go with.

Logically, it isn't, but that's how it's been described...

So then how can we use ANY past showings in comics, besides the most recent ones? Your arguments beg the question "Is there such a thing as PIS?" I agree with pretty much everything you say, to a point. If someone just randomly gains a power out of the blue, are you saying that's OK?

A HUGE part of the pro Wolverine argument is that Wolvie has more victories over Spiderman than vice versa, but Spiderman especially has become a lot more powerful since then, so I don't see how the past fights can be acceptable pro Wolverine, yet past showings can't be used against Wolverine, because he's evolved, regardless of whether or not there's a good explanation behind it or not.

As for the nuke, I think you're thinking of the pants...
Also, was there any time frame given between the time we see him get his ass bombed to the time we see him after the bombing? I remember the bombing occured around morning or noonish and we see wolverine in the crater around afternoon... His having healed in that amount of time seems to be fairly accurate..
what was more inaccurate was him healing from having all his flesh eradicated directly before the bomb and healing over the course of a conversation.

What I don't agree with is the fact that he survived the initial explosion... All of his flesh should have been liquefied. Even Wolverine can't heal back without any of those cell thingies.

Wolverine would have to start out in an uncomprimising position for something like webbing him to himself to take place...or spiderman would need a bit of luck, either way that's not favorable as a scenario...
as far as cutting the webbing while it's being shot at him....
Taskmaster who was slower, had less stamina, and only one blade cut through the webs as they came at him, Spiderman even acknowledged that he figured that taskmaster would do it, (Another, {though irrelivant} example would be during his recent show he had to fight a swordsman(lady) who did the same thing.), I fail to see how wolverine who has more speed, skill, stamina, and blades couldn't do the same.

Standing up is an uncompromising position? What if Wolverine's feet get webbed together? Unless he's walking around with his legs constantly spread, the chance of them getting stuck together is pretty good. From there, his mobility is gone for a moment, (and he probably fell over, if his legs stopped working mid stride) in which Spiderman gets to dump as much webbing on Wolverine as he damn well pleases. I'll trust that you remember the "Webbing of the Hulk" scans, Spiderman can use a LOT of that stuff in a VERY short amount of time.

And hell no Wolverine isn't faster than Taskmaster. Show him catching bullets from short range and we'll talk.

well 1) he needed 2 walls to do it.
and 2) it obviousy wasn't inescapable as wolverine DID esacpe from it.... 😕

that's nothing but wishful (and perhaps bias) thinking on your part... there's nothing to support or suggest the notion that the webs had been weakened since wolverine had been webbed... Infact it's suggested that the webbing was no more forgiving to wolverine than it had been when he was first webbed... We do however know that wolverine did get out when he came to accept that he'd have to hurt himself to do it.

Hmm, I thought it was just the opposite... I'll check, just for you baby.

It was no more a spiderman victory than when wolverine grabbed spidey by the throat and slammed his head against a tree.
both parties were being an inconvenience to their counterparts
neither were prepared to be assaulted by their assailant (though spiderman has his spider sense for the good that did him)
and both appeared to be at a serious disadvantage without any real fight having taken place....

Meh, Wolverine was very obviously ready to fight. Spiderman jumped over him, stuck on the wall, and webbed his ass up. At the LEAST he wasn't caught unawares.

not by spiderman

Explain how Wolverine escapes if Spiderman webs his wrists to a wall. I'm not asking whether he could do it, I'm asking you how you can say Spiderman can't incapacite Wolverine with webbing.

How the hell is he going to kill wolverine again?

Suffocation... In simpler terms, chokin' the b!tch.

To jinzin:
Wait a minute, Wonderman could not lose to Wolverine. Sorry, but that's going over into "Wolverine can't even come close" territory. That's like saying Wolverine's gonna beat Colossus or Iron Man sometime soon.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
To jinzin:
Wait a minute, Wonderman could not lose to Wolverine. Sorry, but that's going over into "Wolverine can't even come close" territory. That's like saying Wolverine's gonna beat Colossus or Iron Man sometime soon.

🤨

did you even read what I actually wrote?....

you may want to read that over instead of just commenting on what you THINK i said.... 🙄

(*remembers Wrecker thread)... "pfffft"..

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Healing factor won't help when you're not breathing. Also, Spider-Man is very accurate. He probably won't miss with the lung webbing.

yeah it would... it would keep logan alive indefinitely.. maybe 20 or 30 minutes... AT LEAST as long as he was trapped submerged by tiger shark....

Originally posted by jinzin
🤨

did you even read what I actually wrote?....

you may want to read that over instead of just commenting on what you THINK i said.... 🙄

(*remembers Wrecker thread)... "pfffft"..

Yeah, I read it. Doesn't make sense that you would think that Wolverine has close to a chance of hurting Wonderman, and that any fight between the two would be Wolverine getting beat like a red-headed step-child. Also, what would a healing factor do when you've got webbing in your lungs? It's not really a wound.

Originally posted by jinzin
yeah it would... it would keep logan alive indefinitely.. maybe 20 or 30 minutes... AT LEAST as long as he was trapped submerged by tiger shark....

As long as we aren't arguing for him surviving 3 days without air here... 😉

And as far as I can tell, the instance in which Spiderman webbed up Wolverine was very simply a curbstomp in Spiderman's favor. Wolverine was in fightin' position and everything, he was clearly ready to fight. Spiderman basically jumped over him, then webbed his wrists, then proceeded to hang him up with his claws facing his temples. I don't see anything directly stating that Wolverine had to wait for them to begin dissolving, but the whole fight was basically Parker having his way with Wolverine.

Any scans besides the end result?

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Yeah, I read it. Doesn't make sense that you would think that Wolverine has close to a chance of hurting Wonderman, and that any fight between the two would be Wolverine getting beat like a red-headed step-child. Also, what would a healing factor do when you've got webbing in your lungs? It's not really a wound.

oh so you DID read it? you just didn't comprehend it.. okay that makes more sense..

look at what i wrote again I don't say anything about wolverine beating wonderman.. 🤨

And again you can't follow along.. logan gets webbed in mouth (assuming it happened) healing factor keeps him concious without oxygen until he either does something about it, or his healing factor takes care of it for him... it's really not a difficult concept to understand.

"NOW... I'd like to see wonderman try that with a riled up logan... I think we might find the results to be a great deal different."

You're basically saying that Wonderman still wouldn't knock him around like a little punk. If Logan were riled up, then he'd be more pissed when he woke up. That's about it.

Originally posted by Dizzle
As long as we aren't arguing for him surviving 3 days without air here... 😉

And as far as I can tell, the instance in which Spiderman webbed up Wolverine was very simply a curbstomp in Spiderman's favor. Wolverine was in fightin' position and everything, he was clearly ready to fight. Spiderman basically jumped over him, then webbed his wrists, then proceeded to hang him up with his claws facing his temples. I don't see anything directly stating that Wolverine had to wait for them to begin dissolving, but the whole fight was basically Parker having his way with Wolverine.

Again it wasn't a fight... wolverine's hands were up sure.. in that same issue he had his claws poised out towards the golden child mutant in spite of having no intention of fighting the kid...

also the conversation they have makes it very clear that wolverine's focus is on the kid and that he's not trying to fight spiderman..

I mean spiderman starts webbing wolverine in the middle of a dioloague for god sakes. how you think that's a fight is beyond me...

and AGAIN it's no more a fight than when spiderman got his head bashed into a tree.. or when he got stabbed.. or when he got tackeled... or when he got kicked in the balls...

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
"NOW... I'd like to see wonderman try that with a riled up logan... I think we might find the results to be a great deal different."

You're basically saying that Wonderman still wouldn't knock him around like a little punk. If Logan were riled up, then he'd be more pissed when he woke up. That's about it.

look at some of wolverine's fights with bricks.. or AnYONE for that matter.. when he gets pissed the results differ by a decent amount...

SCANS! I want proof that it wasn't a fight!

Also, there are very rare moments that Wolverine doesn't wanna kick some ass. Also, what's the point of saying the fight would be different it Wolverine was mad? He won't get kicked around any less. It's like saying Micheal Jordan pissed off is gonna have any different effect if he fought Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
SCANS! I want proof that it wasn't a fight!

the encounter in it's entirety has been posted in this thread no less.. AND BY ME.... ughhh if you're going to be posting in here the least you could do is read the damn thread.. or at least skim through it.....

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Also, there are very rare moments that Wolverine doesn't wanna kick some ass.

Really depends on when.. when logan's drinkin and there's a big group of street punks to pumble he has a hay day...

when there's other respected super hero teams to consider, it's a different matter on most occasions.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Also, what's the point of saying the fight would be different it Wolverine was mad? He won't get kicked around any less. It's like saying Micheal Jordan pissed off is gonna have any different effect if he fought Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee.

doh stop reading what parts you THINK you're going to be able to call me out on and start following along with the conversation taking place.. jeesh...
look, dizzle thinks their fight is a decent way to demonstrate what logan's healing factor could take, Logan was calm and he got downed in about a page.
I already stated that an angry wolverine has an accelerated boost in his healing factor and that means he's regenrating organs as fast as hulk can throw punches, and he's not getting KOed by hulk dropping trees on his head with the force of an explosion.... which equates to wonderman having a harder (maybe even much harder) time putting logan down and out for the count. A lot harder at least, than he did in their previous encounter.. which means that while the wonderman feat may be a good way to demonstrate strength vs. wolvie's healing factor and a calm wolverine.. it isn't however a good way to describe what logan could take while in "bloodlust".

Of course if you're still having problems following along, I could always draw you out a map with crayons... ❌

Okay, there is no point in being a dick about it. There's also no point in me reading 600 PAGES OF REPETITIVE DEBATE!

Second of all, I've never heard anything about Wolverine being able to accelerate his healing factor through willpower. The only people I've seen do it are Hulk and Deadpool.

Third, what the hell is your problem with someone asking you a question? Is it fan hostility or just having a bad day. There's no point going around being a douchebag just because you can't make a valid point.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Okay, there is no point in being a dick about it. There's also no point in me reading 600 PAGES OF REPETITIVE DEBATE!

yeah there is, just because you can't grasp the point doesn't mean one doesn't exist...

Had you read or at the least skimmed through these pages you would have known, half the things you've brought up have been covered, what you JUST requested is already posted, and you would have saved the thread from being EVEN MORE repetitive.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Second of all, I've never heard anything about Wolverine being able to accelerate his healing factor through willpower. The only people I've seen do it are Hulk and Deadpool.

It's not willpower.. it's not a concious effort it's just something that happens relative to his entire body when he gets pissed.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Third, what the hell is your problem with someone asking you a question?

It's not that you asked a question it's that you assumed you knew what I said, then tried to call me out on it, THEN tried to invlidate what I said, and doing it ALL without having read through and gained a decent understanding of what was being discussed... All in some ridiculous attempt to either belittle me or make me look bad.. pfffft.. for as well as that went for ya... 🙄

It's the same as what you're doing with the ap/mider thread.. you can pass it off as trying to build up respect for them but I read where you first brought this up, it's created as as much of an isnult as it is anything else...

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Is it fan hostility or just having a bad day. There's no point going around being a douchebag just because you can't make a valid point.

Again just because you can't follow those points doesn't mean they don't exist. I've made plenty...