Originally posted by Dizzle
I dunno, some characters seem to be a lot more consistant than others.....(No, see, Superman was still holding back then... and then... and then too... and then let's give him reality warping powers...)
agreed... but feats that we may have deemed ridiculous for his healing factor 6 years ago are borderline tame now... in spite of his inconsistancy he's been consistantly getting tougher and tougher in terms of his healing ability.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Not really surprised... You ARE official KMC Champion #2...
Wait... You'd take Wolverine over Wonderman in an all out fight? I'd go as far as to say "how", given Wonderman's speed and past showings against Wolverine?
Originally posted by Dizzle
Many of his more ridiculous feats can be attributed to either him outsmarting .....back because he IS human. (WW) The truly ridiculous stuff often has another explanation behind it. (Motherbox!!!)
Ah but you're feeding into my reasoning.. when batman does something we rationalize how he did it but accept it nonetheless.. when wolverine does something we don't agree with it's pis plain and simple in spite of the fact that much about logan and mutations AND how they work still remains a mystery. funny isn't it?
Originally posted by Dizzle
Meh, there's a fine line. Comic physics should have, at the very least, a LITTLE ground in real world physics, or none of it is even remotely believable, ........crossed? Nukes? Stars? Planets exploding? Blasts from cosmic entities? There's always something that Wolverine should never, ever, ever heal from, just as there's always stuff that Batman should never be able to do.
agreed.. to a point..
there is a point where they shouldn't do things based on how we precieve them right now... if they however started doing these things.. and started doing them on a semi regular basis well.. that changes matters.
Originally posted by Dizzle
In this case, it's about who he's meant to fight. You can only have Hulk KO Wolverine with a glancing blow so many times. If someone is thrown into a crowd of enemies that are far above them, they will almost always adapt ...) However, they won't just randomly gain powers for no reason, like Batman just getting up and flying around one day, as it isn't necessary for him to survive in his environment.
But we're not talking about something that the character does on a whim one day we're talking about something that the character displays on a semi-regular to a fully regular basis.. that differs from your analogy a great deal..
Originally posted by Dizzle
Logically, it isn't, but that's how it's been described...
Originally posted by Dizzle
So then how can we use ANY past showings in comics, besides the most recent ones??
That's actually a really good question... But we use older material to cover what we think might take place in a given scenario...
for instance: say spiderman starts a MAJOR story arch focused mainly on him fighting supervillians for like a year or two, do we still assume he can dodge bullets though we having seen him do it since the arch started? of course we do... based on his previous showings..
However would we assume that spiderman can only lift 3 tons like back in the day? hell no, we understand that the character has evolved since then right?
Originally posted by Dizzle
Your arguments beg the question "Is there such a thing as PIS?" I agree with pretty much everything you say, to a point. If someone just randomly gains a power out of the blue, are you saying that's OK?
However when the character displays such in issue 100... and 103.. and 110.. and 115... etc etc and does it more and more consitantly, it may still be by all rights stupid depending on viewpoint, and certainly induced by the plot of the story... but it's also become a developtment or evolution of the character... and we have to accept it or we can't accept the character as they're more often than not portrayed and hence can't accept the character as they EXIST.. and hence can't come to grips with the character and the character that we think SHOULD exist...
Originally posted by Dizzle
A HUGE part of the pro Wolverine argument is that Wolvie has more victories over Spiderman than vice versa, but Spiderman especially has become a lot more powerful since then, so I don't see how the past fights can be acceptable pro Wolverine, yet past showings can't be used against Wolverine, because he's evolved, regardless of whether or not there's a good explanation behind it or not.
Again arguing for iron spidey is like arguing for an entirely different character than the one this thread originally intended.. No one's using shield tech wolverine to make any points here.. so why would it be acceptable to use iron spidey...
And I'm not saying all past events showing wolverine in a bad light can't be used, I'm saying that they have to be taken with a grain of salt.. for instance, when someone shows wolverine getting downed by hulk's glancing blow I know it lacks credibility as to what wolverine can take now because SOOOOO many more showing's contradict that ONE.. however if the past feats are consistant... (i.e. spiderman getting hit or beaten by wolverine) then there's nothing to contradict the feat in question concerning the characters that this thread had intended.
you do raise an interesting point though.
Originally posted by Dizzle
What I don't agree with is the fact that he survived the initial explosion... All of his flesh should have been liquefied. Even Wolverine can't heal back without any of those cell thingies.
recovering from complete eradication
a nuke
the sun
70% of his flesh blown up by multiple sentinals
being beheaded
hell even now sabretooth "healed" after being cut into "pieces" by wolverine...
Originally posted by Dizzle
Standing up is an uncompromising position? What if Wolverine's feet get webbed together? Unless he's walking around with his legs constantly spread, the chance of them getting stuck together is pretty good. From there, his mobility is gone for a moment, (and he probably fell over, if his legs stopped working mid stride) in which Spiderman gets to dump as much webbing on Wolverine as he damn well pleases. I'll trust that you remember the "Webbing of the Hulk" scans, Spiderman can use a LOT of that stuff in a VERY short amount of time.
Again, He can slice through the stuff with ease.. And while I'll agree that spiderman CAN do what you just discrubed I again have my doubts as to how likely it is that it would be succesful...
As for the Hulk thing.. that I simply don't agree with at all... I remember those scans and that feat definitely falls into the the less consistant category.. you already know how I feel about that.
Originally posted by Dizzle
And hell no Wolverine isn't faster than Taskmaster. Show him catching bullets from short range and we'll talk.
irmmm I don't have to 😕
taskmaster didn't start catching bullets until his 4 part mini.. aside from the fact that wolverine's cutting them in half nowadays, taskmaster was shown slicing through spiderman's webbing WELL before the 4 part miniseries was even a gleam in marvel's collective eye...
Originally posted by Dizzle
Meh, Wolverine was very obviously ready to fight. Spiderman jumped over him, stuck on the wall, and webbed his ass up. At the LEAST he wasn't caught unawares..
He was ready to fight the golden mutant.. not spiderman.. hell his claws weren't even out how the hell you came to the conclussion that he was prepped for a spidey confrontation is beyond me.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Explain how Wolverine escapes if Spiderman webs his wrists to a wall. I'm not asking whether he could do it, I'm asking you how you can say Spiderman can't incapacite Wolverine with webbing.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Suffocation... In simpler terms, chokin' the b!tch.
fair enough.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Theres a time where Spidey webbed Wolvie up to a wall and Wolvie pulled out pieces of the wall, freeing his hands. Does that not count? Just wondering.
I think it's just naturally assumed that any walls that spidey brings to this "arena setting" will be more structurally sound than those ones were.. lol...
Originally posted by jinzin
yeah there is, just because you can't grasp the point doesn't mean one doesn't exist...Had you read or at the least skimmed through these pages you would have known, half the things you've brought up have been covered, what you JUST requested is already posted, and you would have saved the thread from being EVEN MORE repetitive.
It's not willpower.. it's not a concious effort it's just something that happens relative to his entire body when he gets pissed.
It's not that you asked a question it's that you assumed you knew what I said, then tried to call me out on it, THEN tried to invlidate what I said, and doing it ALL without having read through and gained a decent understanding of what was being discussed... All in some ridiculous attempt to either belittle me or make me look bad.. pfffft.. for as well as that went for ya... 🙄
It's the same as what you're doing with the ap/mider thread.. you can pass it off as trying to build up respect for them but I read where you first brought this up, it's created as as much of an isnult as it is anything else...
Again just because you can't follow those points doesn't mean they don't exist. I've made plenty...
Jinzin, you haven't MADE a valid point. At all. Ever. It's the same thing over, and over, and over again. Wolverine has a healing factor, blah blah blah. Wolverine has fast hands, blah, blah, blah. Wolverine has experience, blah, blah, blah. It's the same thing in different wording. You never have made a valid point. Truth be known, if I wanted to make this personal, like you have, then I would have came right out and start throwing out derrogatory comments like you have. Need I reming you of this?
Originally posted by jinzin
it's so sad how underratted those poor symbiotes are, everything that wolverine has would be increased by the symbiote 5 to 20 fold, including reflexes, precognitive senses, speed, healing factor, hightened senses, and obviously strength.
It's said that thos adamantium claws can go through anything, ANYTHING, with a symbiote, I believe, he would have more than sufficient strength to cut right through superman. heat vision? venom got blasted with a sonic gun, and them blasted by human torch immedietly after that, and because he was so pissed he was still beating the crap out of both of them before it was over. So while Superman's heat vision wouldn't be a walk in the park:
1: wolverine's berserker rage would help the symbiote push past the pain
2: Wolverine's been hit with cyclop's optic blast at point blank and just got up smoking,
3: Wolverine's been set on fire on multiple occasions, and it's never really slowed him down,(Although one could argue effectively that in that same regard, spiderman, backed down venom with a lighter)
supe's strength? well like a few people stated before, logan fights hulk and a regular basis and has bested him several times. Venom had what it took to at least make a semi interesting fight against hulk and juggs, using just his brute strength, so combined I don't think strength will be too much of an issue because:
1:the symbiote would soften supes punches
2:wolverine's skeleton will soften the punches
3:Any damage that his punches did would heal practically instantaniously with an accelerated healing factor.Which leaves us with speed. Well like i said in the carnage post, Venom was shown to capture quicksilver and flash rather easily using his symbiote, and wolverine caught ogun who's supposed to transcend the speed of light. Wolverine's nearly has fast and agile as spiderman without a symbiote, so with a symbiotic upgrade, imagine how much faster, agile, etc he would become, and he would know when superman was about to strike using his newly-possesed spider sense. Now as to whether or not he'll actually be able to do anything about it, i doubt it, but it would help him roll with the punches.
flight, well venom took apart the jury and they all fly so that answers that.
which leaves supes with his arctic breath,,,,,yeah he's gonna beat venolverine with breath,,,,i'm not saying it's inteirely inplausible.....just stupid.
The sad part is i keep giving good reasons why symbiotes are so dangerous in the right hands, but no one ever reads em, they just think i'm a loon.
Wolverine with a symbiote could beat Superman? Yeah, and I live on Drury Lane and make muffins. Was that your little brother that day, or did you leave your brain on the headrest? Either way, your cred is dead. In fact, that whole speech you gave is worse than what Wolverine8888 has said before. Also, don't question my motives. Mider and Wolverine8888 deserve a second chance, like anyone. Capt it Up has proven that he's a shifty debater in this thread and in the thread I created. He's proven that he's very intelligent as well. He just has a temper. As for you, you're just a punk who can't make a valid point, and when he's challenged, takes debates personal and lowers himself to making petty comments about people, such as calling people morons and such. So, get over the fact that you're fighting a losing battle, and relax. Maybe you'll learn something and have some credibility later on.
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Jinzin, you haven't MADE a valid point. At all. Ever. It's the same thing over, and over, and over again. Wolverine has a healing factor, blah blah blah. Wolverine has fast hands, blah, blah, blahWolverine has experience, blah, blah, blah. It's the same thing in different wording. You never have made a valid point.
God you're such a fool...
You've already indirectly admitted and proven that you haven't read through this thread yet you deem yourself fit to tell me that I haven't made a single valid point here? pffft... CONTRADICTION anyone?
I mean seriously.. how would you even be able to tell if someone WAS making good points? 30 minutes ago you couldn't even follow along with a simple conversation I was having with someone else in spite of it all being there for you to follow....
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Wolverine with a symbiote could beat Superman? Yeah, and I live on Drury Lane and make muffins. Was that your little brother that day, or did you leave your brain on the headrest? Either way, your cred is dead.
Why is my cred dead again? oh that's right, cause I always have evidence of some sort to back my claims.. yeah my "cred" sucks.. 🙄
For someone who likes to chastise others for sounding like a broken record.. this is the best you got? A post i made well before I took into account the limitations bestowed by the rules of the forum and the general taboos (i.e. using crossovers)....
well it's true.. totally free of CIS and PIS limitations Symbiotes BY THEMSELVES have shown the inginuity to take out big guns (i.e. silver surfer, the traveler)
they've been shown crossing national ground within minutes if that...
crossing the spans of the universe in a few short panals.
breaking down at the molecular level to travel through computer screens
using psychological warfare by instilling illusionistic nightmares
etc etc
NOW venom's symbiote is twice as powerful as it used to be and nowhere NEAR as week as it used to be to it's former weaknesses...
Aside from that venom already proved that superman wasn't that big of a threat without his strength, and with wolverine's superhuman attributes and ability to stand up to brick hits superman's strength doesn't present that big of a challenge...
I admit that post is horrible.. and my rationality wasn't good either.. For instance, ice breath would probably do the trick, heat vision's a hit or miss depending on how powerful the blast was.. But the evidence still remains that wolvenom would have a GREAT chance at taking down supes... hell when venom decided to try and tentical supes, he looked worried as all hell...
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
In fact, that whole speech you gave is worse than what Wolverine8888 has said before. Also, don't question my motives. Mider and Wolverine8888 deserve a second chance, like anyone.
oh please, what you think of some of the wolverine supporters around here is well documented.. and you're not fooling anyone as to your motives... Cap even called you out on that...
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
As for you, you're just a punk who can't make a valid point, and when he's challenged, takes debates personal and lowers himself to making petty comments about people, such as calling people morons and such. So, get over the fact that you're fighting a losing battle, and relax.
Maybe you'll learn something and have some credibility later on. [/B][/QUOTE]
I may have just called you a fool but where did I call you a moron? 🤨 Or are you making up what I said like you did with the wonderman thing? 🙄
A losing battle by who's authority?
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Maybe you'll learn something and have some credibility later on.
Maybe you'll learn something and I'll stop humiliating you...
probably not though ❌
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
I dunno. I loved that arc of the Venom series, but taking a nuke is a little much, especially if your pants are still there, and the symbiote isn't fried.
the symbiote absorbed roaches to absorb their ability to survie nukes.. which is probably why fire hasn't shown to work against the venom symbiote anymore.
Originally posted by thesilverspider
That nuke thing was suspect like what king of nuke leaves plastic signs unharmed and wolverine's pants aren't even dirty,unless Wolverine's pants are made from the same material as Hulk's.........
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
"Hulk Pants Activate! Iron Boot Go! Kill Rhino!"sorry. Random.
the sad part is.. IF rhino fought it out with a boot....
he'd lose.... 🙁
Originally posted by Thunderstrike
I think that Living Tribunal once decreed that Rhino shall never win a battle, ever. He once fought a kid with an ice cream cone. He had the upper hand until a piano fought on his head. That child grew up to be Spider-Man, who then continues to kick Rhino's ass to this day.
when deadpool had "rhino-chucks"
best thing EVER.