No doubt Thanos is the fastest. He outran the speed of light by billions of times (actually unlimited times) and destroyed all the multiverses of marvel, all the gods and all the primevals of all the marvel multiverses except his mistress Death which he loves. The only reason there even is marvel series now is that he recreated the multiverses with everything in it with the infinity gauntlet. Run around the earth.. pppfff superman does not even have power outside yellow-sun solarsystems. Thanos is indistructible and if he dies (somehow that is a weird part of marvel, that it could actually happen somehow) the multiverses would end again since he can not be reborn in the past if that happened and the time paradox would end it all, even the original beyonder.
My is this: Superman is to Flash what Thanos would be to an equivalent of superman would be in the marvel multiverse. Rather pointless comparison in power alone, as we all know superman can spin the earth so fast backwards that time goes backwards... silly as it seems. (also if that was the case, should not everything on the planet be in space then due to the centrifugal effect and laws of gravity. If he can travel fast enough to create a black hole out of the earth (as far as we know today the only possible way to get time to go backwards) should he not also be faster than a person that can run around the earth and back in one second as he claims. Also if superman is that fast, why the hell does he get beat by every single silly little villain with a gun that has a bit of kryptonite. (Which seems for some reason to be abundant in the DC universe.) Silly stuff indeed.
Running speed? well, superman would be cheating if he even used a single of his flying boons (look at earlier argument for superman's flying speed) and he is not a cheater as far as i know, and a pretty stand up guy. I think he would lose to Flash just to save his feelings.
And also to the one posting about he not beeing able to be at two times at once, not exactly at once, but if you can even concentrate at that speed enough to creathe a black hole you could probably stop every bullet ever shot at anyone. That he does not is more of a pondering... Perhaps superman is not as good as you think, he might be, not Clark Kent but rather douchebag steve with some good guy greg thrown into it.
Originally posted by fetöga
No doubt Thanos is the fastest. He outran the speed of light by billions of times (actually unlimited times) and destroyed all the multiverses of marvel, all the gods and all the primevals of all the marvel multiverses except his mistress Death which he loves. The only reason there even is marvel series now is that he recreated the multiverses with everything in it with the infinity gauntlet. Run around the earth.. pppfff superman does not even have power outside yellow-sun solarsystems. Thanos is indistructible and if he dies (somehow that is a weird part of marvel, that it could actually happen somehow) the multiverses would end again since he can not be reborn in the past if that happened and the time paradox would end it all, even the original beyonder.My is this: Superman is to Flash what Thanos would be to an equivalent of superman would be in the marvel multiverse. Rather pointless comparison in power alone, as we all know superman can spin the earth so fast backwards that time goes backwards... silly as it seems. (also if that was the case, should not everything on the planet be in space then due to the centrifugal effect and laws of gravity. If he can travel fast enough to create a black hole out of the earth (as far as we know today the only possible way to get time to go backwards) should he not also be faster than a person that can run around the earth and back in one second as he claims. Also if superman is that fast, why the hell does he get beat by every single silly little villain with a gun that has a bit of kryptonite. (Which seems for some reason to be abundant in the DC universe.) Silly stuff indeed.
Running speed? well, superman would be cheating if he even used a single of his flying boons (look at earlier argument for superman's flying speed) and he is not a cheater as far as i know, and a pretty stand up guy. I think he would lose to Flash just to save his feelings.
And also to the one posting about he not beeing able to be at two times at once, not exactly at once, but if you can even concentrate at that speed enough to creathe a black hole you could probably stop every bullet ever shot at anyone. That he does not is more of a pondering... Perhaps superman is not as good as you think, he might be, not Clark Kent but rather douchebag steve with some good guy greg thrown into it.
I voted for Superman, here's why.
While the Flash might have more coordinated movement in earth's atmosphere as he is simply using the Speed Force to slow down time around him, Superman is just really really powerful. Both physically and telekinetically en-flight.
As far as who can cover more distance in a straight line, Superman can in flight outside of earth's atmosphere. Contrarily, in earth's atmosphere, he will wreck everything across the globe before an eye-lid can finish it's blink.
Superman's flight mechanism allows for infinite speeds.
Originally posted by Dolos
I voted for Superman, here's why.While the Flash might have more coordinated movement in earth's atmosphere as he is simply using the Speed Force to slow down time around him, Superman is just really really powerful. Both physically and telekinetically en-flight.
As far as who can cover more distance in a straight line, Superman can in flight outside of earth's atmosphere. Contrarily, in earth's atmosphere, he will wreck everything across the globe before an eye-lid can finish it's blink.
Superman's flight mechanism allows for infinite speeds.
Ok I get it, you set a scenario in which the atmospheric conditions are in the favor of Superman.
Minus the fanboy nonsense... Flash is faster because he is able to outrun time/space itself. Superman isn't because originally his speed was "faster than a speeding bullet" thats not faster than time/space. Take away your fanboy Bias and Stay your sword my Son, This fight is not to your advantage.
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
For what I have read. Flash is faster RUNNING, Superman is faster flying.
Superman almost matched teleportation speeds in jla, and has catched the flash at least twice off panel.Which reminds me i should post those retcon fests.
The Flash will dance around Superman even if he's flying, he'll reach Superman's destination first.
As for what I said, in order for Superman to achieve greater overall speed than the Flash he needs two thrings, the ability to cut loose in the vacuum of space, and a few hours of constant acceleration. they have both surpassed the speed of light, traversed time and space, and have broken multiple dimensional barriers, however in theory Superman is not limited by that perpetual velocity ball of energy known as the Speed Force, only by his own gravity manipulation, which can turn him into his own speed force imo. But he has no maneuverability at the Flash's speeds, which is why his greater max speed would be useless in combat. The Flash has infinitely better acceleration too.
As far as we know in the New 52 Justice League series, the Flash is a lot faster, almost pulled Superman out of the path of Darkseid's Omega Beams even though Superman could not outrun them himself.
In a pure foot race Superman loses 10/10, unless it's pre-crisis. I would say overall your best bet is the Flash when not getting all theoretical. However after a certain point in time the Speed Force could reach speeds that allow the Flash greater speeds than Superman could ever accelerate to, even if going at it for a few decades of acceleration, which would use up more than all of his solar energy even if sun-dipped.
With the current portrayal, the Flash has already accelerated beyond the speed of light and has entered the speed force and gone into alternate dimensions, Superman has not.
The Flash has been stated and proven to be faster than Superman in the Justice League, currently, the Flash is the fastest super-hero in DC...bar none.
With out trying to get into a debate.
Then you should check where Superman exorcised a ghost planet with superspeed, that counts as dimensional travel.
Also he has a great deal of manoeuvrability while flying as he can turn in 90 degree angles while racing light.
And he has catch to the flash in at least 2 times and matched flash frequency on 1 time.
I will agree that Flash is faster running vs Superman running but flying is another story.
Also that thing about atmosphere and Superman is only a myth, as he has ftl on atmosphere and from the get go.
The speed force has been reached by Diana, so entering the speed force if achieved by certain speed then that means Diana is also faster than Superman, which she is not.
There is also a scan of Superman almost matching teleportation speeds from the ionosphere to two miles under ground, meaning that Superman had to dig two miles of rock in order for him to match the teleporters.
Flash has defeated teleportation, but he did this while amped
Superman did not.
All and all and since comics are always like this, I stick with my claim of Flash being faster on a foot race, Superman flying vs Flash running is another story.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
The way I see it, Superman's muscles move just as fast as Barry's, and his brain does as well, but he cannot do dimensional travel.Which is questionable in its practical uses in a fight anyway.
This agrument broaches biased fanboyism.
Despite past showings, The Flash has proven to be the faster of the two current versions. Marginally, in fact, in Justice League #2 during their battle against Darkseid. In Justice League #1 Superman could not connect a single blow the Flash saw coming, however the Flash did not expect Superman to flick him 100 feet back with his index finger.
Ultimately, as for current Superman's mass acceleration in the vacuum of space through perpetual flight velocities, those velocities might never be able to reach the velocity of the Speed Force, which has been accelerating since the dawn of time. It's bursts of excess energy power the Flash's speed, and they continue to become more powerful, whereas the sun goes closer to becoming a red giant each day.
Originally posted by DolosThe Flash will dance around Superman even if he's flying, he'll reach Superman's destination first.
Originally posted by Dolos
I voted for Superman, here's why.
Dolos my friend,
In my country we call your conflicting comments a contradiction.
Maybe you just had a change of heart but like Abhilegend says "1/2 infinity is still infinity" right?
There are a couple of things to mention here if I may.
Superman has performed dimensional hopping (Supeman V2 #14) though he did this while a much weaker Byrne version with extra life force from others.
But He says "This dimension hopping is a bit exhausting...even with the booster shot of additional life energy we got from our fallen friends"
This was a weaker version than post Mongul training.
After the Mongul training he has the exorcising the planet and the destroyer feat which could be consider as dimensional travel.
Not like it matter in the end like CC said as I also don't see too much use for an actual fight.
And I agree pretty much with what was said. I mean being second to the flash is not actually bad in any way shape of form as long as Supes can tag his ass. But they according to some writers they are very close. I still like the Idea of Superman being faster flying than a Superman running.
Running is Flash's game.
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
There are a couple of things to mention here if I may.Superman has performed dimensional hopping (Supeman V2 #14) though he did this while a much weaker Byrne version with extra life force from others.
But He says "This dimension hopping is a bit exhausting...even with the booster shot of additional life energy we got from our fallen friends"
This was a weaker version than post Mongul training.
After the Mongul training he has the exorcising the planet and the destroyer feat which could be consider as dimensional travel.
Not like it matter in the end like CC said as I also don't see too much use for an actual fight.
And I agree pretty much with what was said. I mean being second to the flash is not actually bad in any way shape of form as long as Supes can tag his ass.
It is like Usain Bolt vs Carl Lewis
im not arguing the fact of who would win a fight...HOWEVER we could talk on that one later.
Im not opposed to Supes dimentional jumping.....But I question between the two who could have controll over themselves while shifting planes and traveling that fast. Supes was not made for that...Flash was.
One more point to that..Flash can vibrate fast enough to cause a wormhole...in case yall dont get what I mean, a wormhole gives him a point A to point B traverse in a blink.
Speed is flash thing and He is supposed to have more control over it, after all Superman accomplish his great speed by bending the laws of physic with sheer muscle force, while flash taps into the speed force, so is a given that Flash controls the speed better, as to the wormhole thing that is like Thor creating a dimensional portal to go from one end of the galaxy to the other. Is not really raw speed per say but more like teleportation.
In that case Thor is faster than Superman because He can open portals from one end to the universe to the other. So is Green Lantern and whoever can open those portals
Originally posted by Dolos
This agrument broaches biased fanboyism.Despite past showings, The Flash has proven to be the faster of the two current versions. Marginally, in fact, in Justice League #2 during their battle against Darkseid. In Justice League #1 Superman could not connect a single blow the Flash saw coming, however the Flash did not expect Superman to flick him 100 feet back with his index finger.
Ultimately, as for current Superman's mass acceleration in the vacuum of space through perpetual flight velocities, those velocities might never be able to reach the velocity of the Speed Force, which has been accelerating since the dawn of time. It's bursts of excess energy power the Flash's speed, and they continue to become more powerful, whereas the sun goes closer to becoming a red giant each day.
Nothing fanboyish about it.
Checking back on their Pre-Reboot phases, Superman has blatantly stated before that "Wally is fast enough to see it coming, but not fast enough to do anything about it." When he was fighting the rest of the leaguers.
He also casually matched Professor Zoom's speed in Time Masters once he got annoyed, with the latter declaring Superman's speed as a match for his own.
Barry has shown annoyance in the past about not knowing what Superman's true speed is as he feels he always held back, even during their races, while conversing with Hal.
Superman even caught Barry during the Grounded series while he was transforming Boulder city, Colorado into several cityscapes from different eras of Krypton, along with costuming up every citizen on the street as well, all in a few seconds. This was a massively faster than light feat, and Superman caught Barry, though he struggled a bit. Now, Barry claimed later that he was holding back, but that may have been a idle boasting, seeing as the Kryptonian head-band didn't just flood his brain with Kryptonian imagery and prose, but it made him unstable enough to not be able to stop running. He was literally out of control, as seen by him still trying to run while his legs were suspended in the air while Clark held him.
So yeah, while he may not have gotten into the Speedforce--which would have taken him out of our dimension to begin with, he WAS running at his max practical speed. And Superman caught him.
I stand by what I said before.
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Speed is flash thing and He is supposed to have more control over it, after all Superman accomplish his great speed by bending the laws of physic with sheer muscle force, while flash taps into the speed force, so is a given that Flash controls the speed better, as to the wormhole thing that is like Thor creating a dimensional portal to go from one end of the galaxy to the other. Is not really raw speed per say but more like teleportation.In that case Thor is faster than Superman because He can open portals from one end to the universe to the other. So is Green Lantern and whoever can open those portals
You reiterated my point and went in another direction. I know speed isnt determined by a wormhole. I stated that point to draw someone elses attention who wanted to measure fighting abilities and such in a contest of speed.
Originally posted by SMIFF-N-WESSON
You reiterated my point and went in another direction.
Well, I support the idea of Flash being faster running vs SM running, since my original post. "Flash" "Running is Flash's game"
Originally posted by SMIFF-N-WESSON
I know speed isnt determined by a wormhole.
Originally posted by SMIFF-N-WESSON
One more point to that..Flash can vibrate fast enough to cause a wormhole...in case yall dont get what I mean, a wormhole gives him a point A to point B traverse in a blink.
Then why mentioning A to B in blink?
Originally posted by SMIFF-N-WESSON
I stated that point to draw someone elses attention who wanted to measure fighting abilities and such in a contest of speed.
Who wanted to measure fighting abilities in here?, I'm sure you are familiar with the idea of "expanding on someone's opinion" which I'm sure that is why you mentioned the wormhole or the able to shift planes better?
Plus you made that clear in the same post, why trying to mention wormholes to get my attention on a topic that you already stated we are not arguing?
Originally posted by SMIFF-N-WESSON
im not arguing the fact of who would win a fight...HOWEVER we could talk on that one later.
Maybe I'm getting all this wrong, but We both share the same opinion that Flash should be faster running, So I don't really see a point on all this shifting and wormholes thing unless you, like me, were only expanding on your point of view.