Just noticed this one, stepping back to address:
Originally posted by LanceWindu:
<STRONG>I believe he did not disapper because at that moment he wasn't one with the force. Obi-Wan and Yoda allowed themselves do die.</STRONG>
I don't think Yoda "allowed" himself to die, he dies of old age, he could not have prevented it.
"Strong with the Force am I, but not that strong"
Ok, Vader's surprise as Obi-Wan's disappearance and Obi-Wan's line about him becoming more powerful etc. is pretty much proof that this disappearing/ghost trick is way over Vader's head, and therefore over the had of ALL Jedi as Anakin underwent Jedi training. This whole trick is very exclusive indeed.
Remember, in favour of Anakin disappearing into the Force is the Website, and the comment of Rick McCallum and George Lucas. It is very unlikely that these comments are erroneous.
Meanwhile, the link between this and the ghost trick is very clear (otherwise thry both have to be seperate weird and mysterious things that Obi-Wan and Yodas discover in the next two episodes... FAR more likely that they are linked), and I think that Anakin's appearance at the end of ROTJ is clear proof that Anakin disappeared on the DSII.
As GL has also said, this is something at Obi-Wan and Yoda will discover in the upcoming epsidoes.
It is NOT a standard Jedi trick, it is something unique that these guys do, probably tied up with the whole Prophecy thing, which is probably why Anakin is able to do it despite having no idea; that last bit is a mystery to be uncovered.
Originally posted by Ushgarak:
<STRONG>Ok, Vader's surprise as Obi-Wan's disappearance and Obi-Wan's line about him becoming more powerful etc. is pretty much proof that this disappearing/ghost trick is way over Vader's head, and therefore over the had of ALL Jedi as Anakin underwent Jedi training. This whole trick is very exclusive indeed.</STRONG>
I have to take issue with that statement, despite pretty much agreeing on the whole, because Anakin didn't complete his training.
"He was a student of mine before he turned to evil." - implying that Anakin left before his training was incomplete.
"Don't make the same mistake that you father did." - implying that Anakin left before his training was incomplete.
PK, my point being that the disappearing trick could be something learnt at the very end of training, once a Jedi has been proven. You wouldn't want half trained dead Jedi running around the coporeal Force world...
ISnt it that the Syth dont know about it, Sorry I know that, that is Expanded universe, but surely the way in A NEw Hope that upon Obi Wans death VAder sort of prodded it seemingly surprised that there was no corpse it must have been something that not all Jedi automatically are either aware of or do. This may be seen reiterated by the fact that You didnt see Qui Gon do the dissappear. Although I suppose we will see in the next film as to whether or not we see the ghost...
Could it be that Jedi only fade and return as 'ghosts' if they have recognised and lived out their destinies? Obi lived out his - to oversee Luke on Tatooine as he grew into adulthood (and possibly to await Leia's message), and Yodi fulfilled his by training the last hope?
Or, perhaps Yoda and Obi-Wan were clones? Anyone considered that?
Vader wasn't surprised by Obi Wan's disappearance, he was just using his foot to make the cloak look neater on the floor. 😂
Ush, is it your sabre nutter who discusses the relevance of the Jedi's clothes vanishing? I remember reading some complex views on that. My best guess would be along the lines of fulfilling destinies, not casting some sort of 'spell' just prior to death.
I have no idea what sabre nutter makes of that, though no doubt he will have pointed out a continuity error in it somewhere. His site is, sadly, down right now.
Fulfilling destinies is in keeping, but also souns too generic (it would have happened in reocrded history); I wouldn't be surprised if this was somethung far more specific to the current situation; probably invoilving the Prophecy and maybe the MCs, but we are getting into stratospheric speculation there.
Well, I think a good deal of the events in the next two episodes will come about due to Anakin's unnaturally high MC count.
I just thought that GL would go for the fulfilling destinies thing, he has said that a lot of his ideas for Star Wars are about getting out there and doing what you're capable of.
this is phenominal! i haven't been able to check the site out for a while, and when i do, i see the very same topic i last indulged. so alright, this is what is plain to the eye: obi-wan disappears; yoda disappears; anakin's death is inconclusive, but he (or just hi suit) is burned, as is qui-gon's. i think that during the clone wars, we will all be made privy to more jedi deaths, and even if there is nothing overtly discussed in respect to disappearing, some will be witnessed during battles. and since i doubt anyone is conclusively right at this point, it is something we will all be looking forward to, and typing our fingers off about when we get home that night.