JEDI DEATH

Ho ho!

i like the idea of having to fulfill your destiny, look at the evidence, qui gon fulfilled his and found the chosen one - no ghost so far, ob1 did not fulfill his and still had to train Luke after he died although perhaps he knew this and so hence the ghost trick, if Luke was not fully trained then Yoda still had to train him after the end of rotj (although i could never understand why the ghost of ob1 could not just train him) and i'm not sure why anakin became a ghost, he had fulfilled his destiny and brought balance to the force by making the jedi and sith equal, i.e two sith and yoda and ob1. Perhaps his destiny included keeping Luke from the dark side.

I'm convinced though that each jedi has a destiny to fulfill be it large or small, qui gons was to find the chosen one, ob1's either to train him, or train the new hope and Luke's was to restore the Jedi order which he probably did and anakin did bring balance to the force all be it in a fairly brutish manor, perhaps that is why yoda was reluctant to train anakin, he knew that in order to bring balance to the force the jedi numbers would have to decrease dramatically and he feared the consequences, i.e the empire.

I think you may be a little backwards. Qui-Gon did NOT fulfill his destiny. I think he was destined to train Anakin, and Obi-Wan to train Luke. Who knows, Yoda was 800 years old, he could have fulfilled his 400 years before Luke was even born. Or maybe, he was destined to train the last hope, it just happened to be the Skywalker's.

But again, that's not consistent with something that is about to be discovered in the next couple of films, or something that is so unheard of that Vader has not even been told of it.

If it was just a matter of people fulfilling their destinies then it would be a matter of historical record.

Destiny may still come into it, but it will be something far more unique to this whole situation of the Prophecy and the Chosen One.

By the way, Sand person, your idea of Balance is not right. As has been discussed many times before and confirmed directly by GL, balance is NOT about making the numbers equal. The evil of the Sith is causing imbalance in the Force. You bring the balance back by defeating the Sith. Simple as that.

And this he DOES achieve. The Chosen One certainly did what he was meant to do, the long way around...

Shall I join the ghost debate again, Ush? 😈 😈

how is having an army of jedi and no sith balance, is it not a coincidence that the chosen one brought balnce to the force by killing all but two jedi. for their to be a balance there must be 2 sides of the scales, in this case the good side and the bad side.

No, You are plain wrong, Sand Person, as GL has explained.

You are using the wrong view of balance. This is a view of natural order, it's an Eastern thing. The Light Side of the Force keeps thing in equilibrium, but the evil and selfish Dark Side upsets things and makes it all go wrong.

Anakin removes this evil when he destroys the Sith Master, thus restoring balance.

Leave any other literal notions of balance behind you.

There is no room for debate here; this has actually been specifically explained by the big man himself.

if you're sure then i will let this one rest, just this once

Sorry, I've been trying to find a link to him talking about it, but I can't right now.

To be honest, his use of the word 'Balance' WAS open to mis-interpretation, and I am not surprised there are lots of people who thought he meant it in a good/evil balance type of way.

There are a lot of things he could have made more clear... let's see if he talks more of the Prophecy in the coming films.

GL told about the balance, I thought it was in a Japanese magazine, the following:

You have 2 colors, black and white, when they are blurred there is grey. To bring balance to the Force everything has to be black and white again; no blur; no grey

I've heard woese metaphors...

BTW, here is a depressing quote from Lucas in the Annotated Screenplays:

"One of the things that will never get explained in the films is how Ben was able to retain his identity, because it happened somewhere between the third and fourth movies. I set up that this is a discipline that he learned from Yoda; Yoda told him how to do that."

Hum...

Mind you, I think we can ignore it. He has more recently spoken of how the reason for Qui-Gon's non-disappearance will be exaplined (along with Obi-Wan's 'Strike me down' line), and also that explanation is bog all good for Anakin.

Could somebody explain the 'If you strike me down'-line?
OK, he advised Luke as a ghost but what had made him stronger than everyone else?

I have absolutley no idea what that line means. 😄

But as for the dissapearing thing - The reason Lucas put this in the OT in the first place is because it is part of "the hero's journey". Once the hero has completed his journey he is rewarded spiritualy in some way. It usually means that the hero will have a life of bliss, often in a place with other heroes. This is of course what happens to Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin.

If Lucas is sticking to the heroes journey formula then they are rewarded because they fulfilled there destiny and chose the right path. But this still leaves the questions :

1.Why are Yoda, Ben and Anakin the only ones to dissapear? -
I agree that this probably has to do with the prophecy.
Anakin was created to bring balance. He failed. But he redeemed himself and was rewarded.
Obi-Wan was CHOSEN to train Anakin. As Qui-Gon said "nothing happens by accident" and "the force will guide us". I don't think it's a coincidence that Obi and Qui-Gon were the Jedi to find him. But Obi-Wan failed. He redeemed himself by training Luke.
Yoda also failed because he couldn't foresee Palpatines plans and didn't help Obi-Wan enough. He redeemed himself by taking Luke(Obi-Wans new apprentice) under his wing and that's what he should have done with Anakin.

2. How does Obi-Wan know about it?
Lucas said that in TPM one of the council members already knows about the Sith and that the Jedi are going to die. I think it's Mace Windu who knows and if he knows that much then he'll probably know about the prophecy and everything that goes with it.

Lucas said just after TPM was released that there would be "big bombshell" regarding the force. What could that be?

Nice to have an ally at last.

But many people still fail to agree than Anakin disappears; argue it out with Queeq.

I still think that disappearing and ghost form are directly linked hence Anakin HAD to disappear; that and all the official material that agrees with me

But many people still fail to agree than Anakin disappears

You are right! Annakin disappears and NOT Vader, I told you before: look at the hair that he has as a ghost, it is cleary NOT Vader who has no hair!

Will you stop being hung up on that, Yerssot? It doesn;t matter WHICH facet of that man's personality disappears, it is irrelevant to the current argument.,

If you force me to spell it out...

Some people stil disagree that the man inside Vader's suit disappears.

I don't have an opinion about disappearing, but that wasn't the original intent. The reason Anakin appeared was to show that he had been completely redeemed, and would live on in a "spirit body" in the company of Yoda, OB1, and probably other Jedi. That's just my take on it, though.

That's what I meant by the heroes journey thing. They are all rewarded spiritualy at the end of their journey.

I think that it is VERY clear that there is no-one in the suit: look at the mask; it lays exctually IN the mask and not ON the mask like you can see it in the entire trilogy