"Ya, I will agree... I just think because The hulk has so far alot of strength and a great healing factor, shouldnt make him a match for a invincible immune to physical damage 100 ton class brute."
I love that sentance.
I admire the way you gave Juggernaut an accolade he doesn't even have and prior to that, cheapened Hulk out of his actual strength level.
Nice way to go about debating.
-AC
"Cheapened hulk out of what?
He doesnt actually have enough strength to do anything with, he has to get mad to achieve anything.
Whats so special about that?
Juggernaut is invincible to all forms of physical damage... you silly goose, he has INVULNREBILITY.
He has a class 100 strength, as well."
Since when did partial INVINCIBILITY exist?
Answer: It doesn't. He isn't anything close to invincible or unstoppable. Wipe that theory off the chalkboard now.
Secondly, if you're gonna comment on Hulk's strength, have the balls to admit that there's no limit to it. Because there isn't. Don't come on here and say "Yeah he has great strength but Juggernaut has incredible strength." Hulk's strength is beyond Juggernauts, fact.
Besides, you tried all these with me back when the thread was in the 30 page limit and the stuff you said was so ridiculous that you ran away with your tail between your legs and let JuggernautFan debate for you, while you popped up here and there to just agree with him.
If you've got something to say in this thread's 102nd page, make it something worth while instead of polishing Juggernaut's helmet all the time.
Hulk isn't my favourite character, Surfer is. But I'm not too ashamed to admit that Surfer can be beat. You just need to realise that Juggernaut was created to be another regular big man along side Rhino and other generic people. They gave him interesting and heavily unbalanced powers but it doesn't change the fact that despite the odd scrap with a credible player, Juggernaut has always remained an X-Men guest star. Hulk is a Marvel flag bearer. There's a reason for this. That reason is that Hulk is the shit.
So in closing I'll leave you with a little thought provoker:
If Juggernaut was a good guy would this thread even have been created? No. Any Colossus Vs Hulk threads? No. Why? Because bad guys always get more credit than they deserve in a fight against the good guys. If you stripped Juggernaut of his evil and made him good or even neutral, half the people who claim he'd win wouldn't even consider him as a match.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So in closing I'll leave you with a little thought provoker:If Juggernaut was a good guy would this thread even have been created? No. Any Colossus Vs Hulk threads? No. Why? Because bad guys always get more credit than they deserve in a fight against the good guys. If you stripped Juggernaut of his evil and made him good or even neutral, half the people who claim he'd win wouldn't even consider him as a match.
-AC
not much to provoke 😉 juggernaut was turned into a "good guy" (puke) and replaced colossus on the team. to which he was slowly being depowered, and was fluctuating between power levels. from nearly his former self to way down below what colossus previously was...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Answer: It doesn't. He isn't anything close to invincible or unstoppable. Wipe that theory off the chalkboard now.
Last I checked, he was as close as they came.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Secondly, if you're gonna comment on Hulk's strength, have the balls to admit that there's no limit to it. Because there isn't. Don't come on here and say "Yeah he has great strength but Juggernaut has incredible strength." Hulk's strength is beyond Juggernauts, fact.
"Potential" for limitless strength, big difference.😉
And his strength still has yet to completely overcome Juggernaut's as it has others, but we've been through that.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hulk isn't my favourite character, Surfer is. But I'm not too ashamed to admit that Surfer can be beat. You just need to realise that Juggernaut was created to be another regular big man along side Rhino and other generic people. They gave him interesting and heavily unbalanced powers but it doesn't change the fact that despite the odd scrap with a credible player, Juggernaut has always remained an X-Men guest star. Hulk is a Marvel flag bearer. There's a reason for this. That reason is that Hulk is the shit.
Now come on, you know damn well that Juggernaut is well above Rhino power-wise, always has been. Hulk IS a flag character, no denying that there. Still, doesn't make him impossible to be beaten by non-flag characters. I know you didn't imply that, I just felt I needed to say it though.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If Juggernaut was a good guy would this thread even have been created? No. Any Colossus Vs Hulk threads? No. Why? Because bad guys always get more credit than they deserve in a fight against the good guys. If you stripped Juggernaut of his evil and made him good or even neutral, half the people who claim he'd win wouldn't even consider him as a match.
Actually, a Collosus vs Hulk thread was already made, but we pretty much concluded that it went to Hulk. Yeah, some bad guys get a lot of credit, but with most of their resumes, they deserve it. I give credit where credit is due. Good guy or bad, based on his powers and past experience, I say Juggernaut has a damn good chance against Hulk, despite what most people think. Although I still think it could go either way, I still also think the scales are more in Juggernaut's favor, based on the reasons I stated before.
"Last I checked, he was as close as they came."
He can be stopped. So he isn't unstoppable. And he, like most of the other people in the entire universe, has been killed. So that would make him no invincible. Either way, sufficient psychic attack is capable of killing him.
"Potential" for limitless strength, big difference.
And his strength still has yet to completely overcome Juggernaut's as it has others, but we've been through that."
No. He has limitless strength. You're basically saying that because he hasn't reached a limit.....he doesn't have limitless strength. He has grown significantly stronger as time has gone on and in the recent Hulk's he was stronger than ever before. The fact that his power increases with rage, which we have already been over, proves that he has no limit to strength, coz there's no limit to emotion. Granted Juggernaut hasn't reached a limit, but he has been said to have one. By oh, Marvel themselves. Where as Hulk is repeatedly cited as the strongest being to walk the Earth, with limitless strength. You can twist and turn it to try and weasel Hulk out of that but the fact will always remain.
"Now come on, you know damn well that Juggernaut is well above Rhino power-wise, always has been. Hulk IS a flag character, no denying that there. Still, doesn't make him impossible to be beaten by non-flag characters. I know you didn't imply that, I just felt I needed to say it though."
Yeah. Like I said, he has been put above those. However he was created to be in the same intimidating vein as those people. He was part of the Brotherhood. A big guy in a faction. Then as time went on he was given more of a back story and the incredibly unbalanced powers you see today. The only reason he is where he is now, is due to the fact that he's connected to Xavier. The attitude he had as a step-brother is now manifested in him being a remoreless Juggernaut and Xavier being the brother who was always thinking and trying to work things out, got psychic powers. Peaceful powers. They just stepped the family connection up to another level. If Juggernaut was just a random character on his own, he wouldn't be anywhere near the status he's at now.
"Although I still think it could go either way, I still also think the scales are more in Juggernaut's favor, based on the reasons I stated before."
The only reasons that I've seen when it comes down to it are:
Invulnerable, Immune to pain etc etc.
I've pretty much concluded that it would be a stale mate based on the fact that Juggernaut is unbalanced. That isn't just me saying it, I have compared the powers, the ratio of each, many times before. Juggernaut has some powers that give him a pointless advantage, like DC with Superman. They if they had balanced powers that traded off, a fair fight between anti-hero and villain, Hulk would win. It's easy to be immune to pain when you're wearing magical armour, protected by spells and have great strength, but if I've gone over the ratio/comparison stuff in past pages so I won't bother. Hulk is actually the better offensive fighter and attacker of the two by some light year measured margin so considering that killing isn't necessary for a defeat, I continue to vote for Hulk.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And he, like most of the other people in the entire universe, has been killed. So that would make him no invincible. Either way, sufficient psychic attack is capable of killing him.
mind telling anybody when juggernaut was killed, or you just pulling that outta yur ass?? also, a phsychic attack cant kill him, it can shut render him unconsciouss though 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No. He has limitless strength. You're basically saying that because he hasn't reached a limit.....he doesn't have limitless strength. He has grown significantly stronger as time has gone on and in the recent Hulk's he was stronger than ever before. The fact that his power increases with rage, which we have already been over, proves that he has no limit to strength, coz there's no limit to emotion.
no limit to emotion?? lol... prove it. you cant... therefor he has to have SOME limit.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Granted Juggernaut hasn't reached a limit, but he has been said to have one.
when has juggernaut been said to have a limit??? i'd like to here 1 source... a marvel source say that 😉 even hulks writers claim that juggernaut can call upon limitless amounts of strength also.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
By oh, Marvel themselves.
read above 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Where as Hulk is repeatedly cited as the strongest being to walk the Earth,
no, this is completely and utterly false. hulks writer (peter david) clearly said that around marvel HQ, the consesus was that juggernaut was stronger. also, in every directory they directly compare juggernaut and hulk BY NAME as RIVALS for strongest beings on earth. there is no edge ever given to either... besides by hulks writers lol.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
with limitless strength. You can twist and turn it to try and weasel Hulk out of that but the fact will always remain.
the fact that hulks writers even agree that juggernaut is stronger?? where are you wanting to go with this exactly...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The only reasons that I've seen when it comes down to it are:Invulnerable, Immune to pain etc etc.
I've pretty much concluded that it would be a stale mate based on the fact that Juggernaut is unbalanced. That isn't just me saying it, I have compared the powers, the ratio of each, many times before. Juggernaut has some powers that give him a pointless advantage, like DC with Superman. They if they had balanced powers that traded off, a fair fight between anti-hero and villain, Hulk would win. It's easy to be immune to pain when you're wearing magical armour, protected by spells and have great strength, but if I've gone over the ratio/comparison stuff in past pages so I won't bother. Hulk is actually the better offensive fighter and attacker of the two by some light year measured margin so considering that killing isn't necessary for a defeat, I continue to vote for Hulk.
-AC
how is hulk the better fighter lol... in his savage form he has basic fighting skills, but with emmense strength behind it. the smart hulk has already proven inferior (in intelligence and in strength) because 1) he couldnt outfight, or figure out the fact that juggernaut was no normal man from the very FIRST page of thier encounter. where juggernaut literally sent him flying THROUGH the trees. last i checked, no man on earth could send another man flying THROUGH trees.
"mind telling anybody when juggernaut was killed, or you just pulling that outta yur ass?? also, a phsychic attack cant kill him, it can shut render him unconsciouss though "
Everyone was killed in "The End" and Juggernaut can be seen in the comics and for those about to speak, yes...it does count.
"no limit to emotion?? lol... prove it. you cant... therefor he has to have SOME limit."
Prove that there is a limit and we can talk. Emotion is something that increases/differs with thought. Emotion, feeling, thought. All human characteristics such as these are scientifically limitless. BUT this is not a science thread. The point was Hulk's strength which has been cited by many many people, fans, writers and ahem, creator himself, that Hulk's strength is limitless. Limit-LESS. Without limit. It's fact, yes it is. Deal. Any more posts regarding this won't be answer because it's getting beyond funny. It's not as if it's just me saying it, is Marvel.
"when has juggernaut been said to have a limit??? i'd like to here 1 source... a marvel source say that even hulks writers claim that juggernaut can call upon limitless amounts of strength also."
I love the way you demand a source then go an spout of a random bit of info with absolutely zero back up. Such a hypocrite. Before you even QUESTION the way I deliver info, I suggest you take a look back at this age old thread. Since my arrival on this forum I have been debating in it, providing points and factual information wherever possible. You are just some random hypocritcal yahoo coming out of the wood work. Practise what you preach or zip it.
"no, this is completely and utterly false. hulks writer (peter david) clearly said that around marvel HQ, the consesus was that juggernaut was stronger. also, in every directory they directly compare juggernaut and hulk BY NAME as RIVALS for strongest beings on earth. there is no edge ever given to either... besides by hulks writers lol."
Hahahaha. The only edge given to Juggernaut here, undoubtedly is by Juggernaut fans. Maybe the odd person otherwise. Loads of people who have said Hulk would win, don't even regard Hulk as their favourite. There you go being hypocritical again. Watch Mutants and Monsters with Stan Lee, the man who actually created The Hulk. He said that he is the strongest being to walk the face of the Earth. A living, breathing engine of destruction. Juggernaut is an X-Men regular, he is not a Hulk rival nor will he ever be. Abomination is the one with that title.
"how is hulk the better fighter lol... in his savage form he has basic fighting skills, but with emmense strength behind it. "
Hardly basic fighting skills then is it? You really do present the most contradictory, ridiculous theories ever.
"because 1) he couldnt outfight, or figure out the fact that juggernaut was no normal man from the very FIRST page of thier encounter. where juggernaut literally sent him flying THROUGH the trees. last i checked, no man on earth could send another man flying THROUGH trees."
The question "Why did he not stroll up to him in Juggernaut clothing if he thought he was stronger and able to win?" still hasn't been answered.
The fact of the matter is this KillAll. Every person, opponent or not, on this thread, can vouch that I have done more than provide very very convincing reasons, fact-based and opinion-based, that Hulk would win. There is nothing being said right now by you or I that hasn't been said, countered and re-countered before. No one is gonna admit Juggernaut will lose besides those who believe Hulk will actually win and vice versa. So carrying it on is a bit redundant. I only posted back in here because certain people were saying how no one had given valid opinion.
So continue along if you want.
There's not much left for me to say.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah. Like I said, he has been put above those. However he was created to be in the same intimidating vein as those people. He was part of the Brotherhood. A big guy in a faction. Then as time went on he was given more of a back story and the incredibly unbalanced powers you see today.
But you're right, Juggernaut is one dimensional, and is overpowered. But I think the same can be said from the Hulk. I mean, almost being invulnerable, possessing an incredible healing factor AND being able to reach limitless strength is also too much, if you ask me.
They deserve each other.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Last I checked, he was as close as they came."He can be stopped. So he isn't unstoppable. And he, like most of the other people in the entire universe, has been killed. So that would make him no invincible. Either way, sufficient psychic attack is capable of killing him.
When did I say he couldn't? Like I said when I first got to this forum, I wasn't even the whole "unstoppable" thing since it seemed to have too much controversy around it. And you're still think of the the whole "unstoppable" thing as overall too, I don't know why. You know what's meant by it when some people bring it up, as has been said before. And yeah, overall, he's not invinsible, if you wanna think of it that way. But, as long as he's connected to his powers, he pretty much is. And a sufficient psychic attack killing him? Prove it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Potential" for limitless strength, big difference.And his strength still has yet to completely overcome Juggernaut's as it has others, but we've been through that."
No. He has limitless strength. You're basically saying that because he hasn't reached a limit.....he doesn't have limitless strength. He has grown significantly stronger as time has gone on and in the recent Hulk's he was stronger than ever before. The fact that his power increases with rage, which we have already been over, proves that he has no limit to strength, coz there's no limit to emotion. Granted Juggernaut hasn't reached a limit, but he has been said to have one. By oh, Marvel themselves. Where as Hulk is repeatedly cited as the strongest being to walk the Earth, with limitless strength. You can twist and turn it to try and weasel Hulk out of that but the fact will always remain.
Something we'll pretty much we'll have to agree to disagree on. It's been said he's had the potential, and I take it as that. Oh, and when did Marvel say that Juggernaut has an actual limit? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he does, but I've never seen Marvel actually say it. Although, Peter David did say during his run that the opinion at Marvel was that Juggernaut was more powerful, based on the limitless power of Cyttorak he could call upon. That's not binding or anything, but if the people at Marvel give Juggernaut that much credit, then he must deserve it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Now come on, you know damn well that Juggernaut is well above Rhino power-wise, always has been. Hulk IS a flag character, no denying that there. Still, doesn't make him impossible to be beaten by non-flag characters. I know you didn't imply that, I just felt I needed to say it though."Yeah. Like I said, he has been put above those. However he was created to be in the same intimidating vein as those people. He was part of the Brotherhood. A big guy in a faction. Then as time went on he was given more of a back story and the incredibly unbalanced powers you see today. The only reason he is where he is now, is due to the fact that he's connected to Xavier. The attitude he had as a step-brother is now manifested in him being a remoreless Juggernaut and Xavier being the brother who was always thinking and trying to work things out, got psychic powers. Peaceful powers. They just stepped the family connection up to another level. If Juggernaut was just a random character on his own, he wouldn't be anywhere near the status he's at now.
Ummm, this is the one time when I have to say you're wrong. Juggernaut was never a part of the Brotherhood until the end of Chuck Austen's run, which was in itself a joke. And, he had himself a backstory ever since his first appearance, surprises me that you didn't know that. Of course he is where is is now because he has a pretty interesting backstory, but so is nearly every other character with one, so what's your point? Hulk wouldn't be where he is now either if he was just some big dumb green guy running around smashing sh*t, so I don't see what you're getting at. I agree, he wouldn't be at the status he is now if he were another random character, but neither would most other characters.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Although I still think it could go either way, I still also think the scales are more in Juggernaut's favor, based on the reasons I stated before."The only reasons that I've seen when it comes down to it are:
Invulnerable, Immune to pain etc etc.
I've pretty much concluded that it would be a stale mate based on the fact that Juggernaut is unbalanced. That isn't just me saying it, I have compared the powers, the ratio of each, many times before. Juggernaut has some powers that give him a pointless advantage, like DC with Superman. They if they had balanced powers that traded off, a fair fight between anti-hero and villain, Hulk would win. It's easy to be immune to pain when you're wearing magical armour, protected by spells and have great strength, but if I've gone over the ratio/comparison stuff in past pages so I won't bother. Hulk is actually the better offensive fighter and attacker of the two by some light year measured margin so considering that killing isn't necessary for a defeat, I continue to vote for Hulk.
There's something we more or less agree on. True, it could be a stalemate, or could go either way, depends on who's lucky day it is pretty much, in my opinion. And, his powers have been somewhat unbalanced over the years (although your definition might be different form mine). In a way though, it may be understandable, seeing as how his powers are mystical in nature, and very little is known about his powers, or Cyttorak himself. I kinda understand what you're sayign though, that's sort of the reason I give most DC characters the advantage over some Marvel characters. Anyways, it's already been said, Juggernaut wouldn't need his armor in a fight against Hulk, as seen in Hulk #402. I will agree that Hulk is the better fighter of the two, but Juggernaut's defensive capabilities are better by far. Hulk's capable of a win, but my money's still on Juggernaut.
I still think you're cool though.😉
Oh, and thank you for bringing something that's somewhat new and refreshing, rather than the same damn babble that's been repeated for 50+ pages.
"But you're right, Juggernaut is one dimensional, and is overpowered. But I think the same can be said from the Hulk. I mean, almost being invulnerable, possessing an incredible healing factor AND being able to reach limitless strength is also too much, if you ask me."
I don't think there can ever be too much in comic books but I think to keep the element of excitement you need weaknesses and Hulk has them. Juggernaut has powers and weaknesses too but his powers are too overpowered to the point that they cancel out his weaknesses and it becomes boring.
"And a sufficient psychic attack killing him? Prove it."
In honesty, that was something I thought of in theory. Cannot prove it. Just seemed fairly logical that if a simple mind bolt can do him damage, a telepathic onslaught could at least render him braindead. Maybe not physically dead. Example, X-Man Vs Juggernaut without helmet. Juggernaut, safe to say, is probably not gonna be walking out of the fight.
"I will agree that Hulk is the better fighter of the two, but Juggernaut's defensive capabilities are better by far."
Ah, see now there is what I've been getting at. Juggernaut's defensive capabilities aren't better, his default defence is. If Juggernaut wasn't physically invulnerable due to the gem, he would get battered. Coz he's slow and he's no good at actually defending himself is he? He just stands there and takes blows due to the gem. If that wasn't there he'd be getting knocked around and battered up. That's probably the biggest misunderstanding about Juggernaut. If you gave Iraq a bomb proof shield, no country could harm them. It wouldn't mean they are great defensively, just that they have a great defence.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like Juggernaut. I just don't think he can beat Hulk. I don't think he deserves to beat Hulk. I don't think that if he had mutant power rather than magical it would be a different story.
-AC
*juggie doesnt just call on the power of cyttorak, he cant just get it END
* hulk just nees to get angry to get his infinite potential
* stop going scientific claiming theres a limit to emotion etc. yes there is in the real world, but let me ask u how likely is a flipping magic gem stone
* hulk as a character ( ive said this so often it untrue) was created to have the potential to beat anyone, hence hs limitkess strength ability, and healing as that too speeds up with rage. therefore can be written as he has done in the past doing ludicrously powerful feats. hurting juggie by being so strong as to overpower cyttoraks spell ( as that is what it is) is well within the realms of feats that is realistic for hulk.
* hulk as war mullered juggie, who said juggie put up a good fight ????
* alpha centauri has said what i would regarding juggie as a character etc so i wont repeat.
* if u want to know a good place to read about abom buy the hulk bio from a comic store, read about his enemies in there. its an interesting read
*i know that hulk could also be written to lose as juggie is certainly as powerful as others who have given hulk a hard time but it would be up to the writers there who would obviously be doin this for the sake of the story, but hulk as a character as ive said is within his character beating most out there as thats how he was created and developed to be. juggie is not developed enough as a character to start toppling hulk as marvels top muscle so peter david is obviously out of line with his comment as we have discussed. also cyttorak is not unlimited in its power i believe so theres another mistake there and juggie cant just tap into it anyway so another mistake.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"when has juggernaut been said to have a limit??? i'd like to here 1 source... a marvel source say that even hulks writers claim that juggernaut can call upon limitless amounts of strength also."I love the way you demand a source then go an spout of a random bit of info with absolutely zero back up. Such a hypocrite. Before you even QUESTION the way I deliver info, I suggest you take a look back at this age old thread. Since my arrival on this forum I have been debating in it, providing points and factual information wherever possible. You are just some random hypocritcal yahoo coming out of the wood work. Practise what you preach or zip it.
Well, since you ask, Peter David said it in his letter response in Hulk #424.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"no, this is completely and utterly false. hulks writer (peter david) clearly said that around marvel HQ, the consesus was that juggernaut was stronger. also, in every directory they directly compare juggernaut and hulk BY NAME as RIVALS for strongest beings on earth. there is no edge ever given to either... besides by hulks writers lol."Hahahaha. The only edge given to Juggernaut here, undoubtedly is by Juggernaut fans. Maybe the odd person otherwise. Loads of people who have said Hulk would win, don't even regard Hulk as their favourite. There you go being hypocritical again. Watch Mutants and Monsters with Stan Lee, the man who actually created The Hulk. He said that he is the strongest being to walk the face of the Earth. A living, breathing engine of destruction. Juggernaut is an X-Men regular, he is not a Hulk rival nor will he ever be. Abomination is the one with that title.
I like Juggernaut, but I wouldn't call myself a big fan, the same with Hulk, although I like him a little more. If I didn't learn more about Juggernaut about 2 years ago, I would've said Hulk wins. But, that was BEFORE I actually learned what Juggernaut's done and what he's capable of. And, as shown, Juggernaut IS a worthy rival for Hulk, right along with Abomination. Even Peter David has shown this in his comics. Although Stan Lee created Hulk, Peter David has made Hulk what he is today, and on two occasions has written Juggernaut as a worthy rival for Hulk. Although Juggernaut got tossed around in Hulk #457, he'll still held his own against a suped up War.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"because 1) he couldnt outfight, or figure out the fact that juggernaut was no normal man from the very FIRST page of thier encounter. where juggernaut literally sent him flying THROUGH the trees. last i checked, no man on earth could send another man flying THROUGH trees."The question "Why did he not stroll up to him in Juggernaut clothing if he thought he was stronger and able to win?" still hasn't been answered.
Well, I'm pretty sure that the guy who had the balls to challenge Eternity (although it was really stupid) wouldn't have a problem letting Hulk know it was him from the start. But, he had a job to do though, and apparantly that's what the Red Skull ordered him to do. And of course he thinks he's stronger, whether he actually is or not. That's his attitude after all.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The fact of the matter is this KillAll. Every person, opponent or not, on this thread, can vouch that I have done more than provide very very convincing reasons, fact-based and opinion-based, that Hulk would win. There is nothing being said right now by you or I that hasn't been said, countered and re-countered before. No one is gonna admit Juggernaut will lose besides those who believe Hulk will actually win and vice versa. So carrying it on is a bit redundant. I only posted back in here because certain people were saying how no one had given valid opinion.So continue along if you want.
There's not much left for me to say.
-AC
Most of us have (that's JugFan if you didn't figure it out by now, lol). And, I've admitted that either character is more than capable of winning, although Juggernaut has a convient advantage from the start. I understand why ya came back though, I personally was tired of reading the same sh*t over and over. Like I said, I'm pretty much done with the same arguements, especially with those with little backing (not saying that's you of course).
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"And a sufficient psychic attack killing him? Prove it."In honesty, that was something I thought of in theory. Cannot prove it. Just seemed fairly logical that if a simple mind bolt can do him damage, a telepathic onslaught could at least render him braindead. Maybe not physically dead. Example, X-Man Vs Juggernaut without helmet. Juggernaut, safe to say, is probably not gonna be walking out of the fight.
As far as what you just said, I completely agree. I still don't think it could actually kill him, but he can be left a vegetable. For how long though, is hard to say.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"I will agree that Hulk is the better fighter of the two, but Juggernaut's defensive capabilities are better by far."Ah, see now there is what I've been getting at. Juggernaut's defensive capabilities aren't better, his default defence is. If Juggernaut wasn't physically invulnerable due to the gem, he would get battered. Coz he's slow and he's no good at actually defending himself is he? He just stands there and takes blows due to the gem. If that wasn't there he'd be getting knocked around and battered up. That's probably the biggest misunderstanding about Juggernaut. If you gave Iraq a bomb proof shield, no country could harm them. It wouldn't mean they are great defensively, just that they have a great defence.
Defenses, default defences, same difference. True, he would get battered without them. And he's not THAT slow, not as fast as Hulk, but still quick enough for his size. And your comparison is off. Juggernaut's offensive capabilities are pretty damn good too. He can take a shot, and give a good one of his own.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Don't get me wrong, I actually like Juggernaut. I just don't think he can beat Hulk. I don't think he deserves to beat Hulk. I don't think that if he had mutant power rather than magical it would be a different story.-AC
Well, that's a little unfair to say, but I do understand it though. And if he had a mutant power, I think it would be a much different story. Juggernaut would have to rely on his own genetic powers rather than mystical ones, and a limit in endurance.
"I like Juggernaut, but I wouldn't call myself a big fan"
That's who I was referring to when I said "Besides the odd person". You are a neutral who happens to like Juggernaut.
"Well, I'm pretty sure that the guy who had the balls to challenge Eternity (although it was really stupid) wouldn't have a problem letting Hulk know it was him from the start. "
A) If it's stupid we can forget about it coz Juggernaut Vs Eternity if ****ing disgraceful.
B) He didn't let Hulk know though did he?
"And, I've admitted that either character is more than capable of winning, although Juggernaut has a convient advantage from the start"
My only arguement is that the advantage he has is an unfair one.
"True, he would get battered without them. And he's not THAT slow, not as fast as Hulk, but still quick enough for his size. And your comparison is off. Juggernaut's offensive capabilities are pretty damn good too. He can take a shot, and give a good one of his own."
For real but if Juggernaut never had the gem to hide behind and had to actually use defensive techniques against Hulk's offensive techniques, there's only one outcome really. Coz regardless of how strong Juggernaut is or how well he can fight (coz he can brawl), Hulk's offensive strength and speed are greater. So he would be able to strike harder and faster. This would lead to the win. Again it comes down to Jug's rather unfair magical armament. Which is really quite ridiculous. Not saying he should not have it. I just think if you're gonna stroll around with a gem that gives you invulnerability, at least do everyone the courtesy of not acting like you're the man by yourself.
I'm just a little tired of Juggernaut fans acting like he's the shit when he owes everything he has (literally) to the gem. Banner was forced to become Hulk and it's a troublesome power, not one that's always there and okey dokey. Juggernaut says the spell and he's away. Kinda like the Superman of DC. Just give him everything even if it's not needed.
I don't mind debating with you coz I don't have to say the same thing 80 times like I do to most people. However with all due respect, even I am starting to grow tiresome. I posted my first post on KMC in this thread back in July. So you can see why.
-AC
Ok, now your getting into the actual powers of someone, Centauri... Dont be stupid...
Your talking about if juggernaut didnt have the gem hed be crapfilled... WRONG... because if Bruce Banner hadnt had his gamma rays, the hulk would have never properly been produced, and then whose the weak one?
Dont argue about a characters Diret powers, its weak, it shows you have no more reasons to normally argue.
The fact remains that, Juggernaut is INDESTRUCTIBLE. And dont bring up The End, because, psyche, Hulkie died in that one too!
Oh, and you must forget Centauri, that no force on Earth can stop Juggernaut... You know his little helmet? Ya, well as long as thats on hes immune to all psychic attacks as well, and even when they get the dome off, hes got a skull barbute that acts just like the dome also, repelling all psychic attacks, so theyd have to get that off also.
Juggernaut does have the ability to call on more power than I would say a god... AS IVE SAID, I FEEL, HUNDEREDS OF TIMES, WHEN A GROUP OF THUGS TOOK HIM OVER... He was PUNCHING through dimensions! Everytime he took a step he was tearing open dimensions, he was using an amazing variety of psychic attacks, and this was at his 8th circle of power... He has a total of 10. He had acess to immense power, more strength than id say Hulk could make even if he was angrier than an angry chicken on chicken day.
Juggernaut had become so powerful he could even summon up a, id say class 7 in defensive/durability, Force-field, no one could penetrate it, the X-men even had a bad time trying to get through it, and Magneto was useless, hell even Professor X couldnt do crap, this all being, he was walking around with his helmets off.
So juggernaut has also SHOWN the POTENTIAL of immense power, just like Hulkie has SHOWN the POTENTIAL of immense strength.
IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHO CAN TAKE THE MUCH, and since Juggernaut needs no mortal fuel, oxygen, food, water, sleep, poison, ETC. And the fact he cannot be hurt by physical damage, Hulk would loose in the long run.
Now, this is a very LONG LONG run, But eventually The Hulk would either get tired and retreat or die from exhaustion or who knows what, Thats when juggey follows him and finds bruce banner.
"Oh, and you must forget Centauri, that no force on Earth can stop Juggernaut... You know his little helmet? Ya, well as long as thats on hes immune to all psychic attacks as well, and even when they get the dome off, hes got a skull barbute that acts just like the dome also, repelling all psychic attacks, so theyd have to get that off also."
Nice paragraph and all. May I voice something? Good.
See when you said no force on Earth can stop him? You were wrong. There are psychics on Earth. They can and have stopped him. Shhh. Think before you type.
"The fact remains that, Juggernaut is INDESTRUCTIBLE. And dont bring up The End, because, psyche, Hulkie died in that one too!"
When did I say that he didn't? I just said that Juggernaut did. Ironically you then say "Don't bring it up". My my.
So anyway Tron.....about the debate we were having, you know the one where things made sense? Yeah. I've said all I have to but if at some point you wanna create a thread that could potentially be as great as this, I'd gladly enter it 🙂.
-AC
No centauri, YOU THINK, if your not going to be open to others opinions and voices, then get off this website, it seems everytime weve argued, your so entirely arrogant you think just because you like the hulk as a character more, he would win.
You think everything revolves around you, all youve done is shoot off everything everyone here as argued about on Juggernauts defense, and try to back up everything on Hulks.
Your overall an amazingly arrogant person, so far all youve argued about is Hulk, and everything people have said about Juggernaut you completely destroy and crush with your own silly demeanors...
I mean? Insulting Juggernauts very source of power? How weak is that. Thats the same as saying what if superman was a cop, and never had his powers either... all characters rely on there power, doesnt matter what that power is.
Why dont you open up your eyes, and accept the fact that just because you like The Hulk more, and you THINK he should win, doesnt ever mean he could.
I can accept the fact Hulk has an amazing potential for strength, has a virtually impossible to beat healing factor, and a yet to be beaten sense of battle... But how the hell would that strength work... if hes fighting someone whose very power is made to resist all types of it?!
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Well, I'm pretty sure that the guy who had the balls to challenge Eternity (although it was really stupid) wouldn't have a problem letting Hulk know it was him from the start. "A) If it's stupid we can forget about it coz Juggernaut Vs Eternity if ****ing disgraceful.
B) He didn't let Hulk know though did he?
A) True, but at least he still had the balls. That's gotta say something, besides not being very smart.😉
B) Well no, but he did have his orders after all. And he's a villain, they're known for those kind of things.😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"And, I've admitted that either character is more than capable of winning, although Juggernaut has a convient advantage from the start"My only arguement is that the advantage he has is an unfair one.
I agree completely, it's a very unfair advantage, but still an advantage nonetheless.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"True, he would get battered without them. And he's not THAT slow, not as fast as Hulk, but still quick enough for his size. And your comparison is off. Juggernaut's offensive capabilities are pretty damn good too. He can take a shot, and give a good one of his own."For real but if Juggernaut never had the gem to hide behind and had to actually use defensive techniques against Hulk's offensive techniques, there's only one outcome really. Coz regardless of how strong Juggernaut is or how well he can fight (coz he can brawl), Hulk's offensive strength and speed are greater. So he would be able to strike harder and faster. This would lead to the win. Again it comes down to Jug's rather unfair magical armament. Which is really quite ridiculous. Not saying he should not have it. I just think if you're gonna stroll around with a gem that gives you invulnerability, at least do everyone the courtesy of not acting like you're the man by yourself.
True, and if Hulk didn't have that damn healing factor...
I get you there, but, that's his power, just like Hulk has his. If they changed, then the way he fought would change as well, then it would be a totally different fight, and possibly a totally different change in character, and likewise for Hulk. And, well, he's not actually strolling around with the gem, but I think you knew that. And, of course he's gonna act like the man, he's an a*shole by nature, since birth. It's annoying to some, but it's personally one of the things I like about him.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm just a little tired of Juggernaut fans acting like he's the shit when he owes everything he has (literally) to the gem. Banner was forced to become Hulk and it's a troublesome power, not one that's always there and okey dokey. Juggernaut says the spell and he's away. Kinda like the Superman of DC. Just give him everything even if it's not needed.
I understand, I'm just as tired of Hulk fanboys on Hulk's jock like he's the absolute greatest, thinking that he could beat anyone and everyone (check the Hulk vs Superman thread if you haven't already, and the Pre-Crisis Superman vs. Post-Heroes Reborn Hulk).
Also, Hulk owes everything he has to that little gamma explosion as well, may not always be there but still conviently pops up when necessary. And, Cain Marko never really asks for his powers either, he just happened to stumble on to them. Maybe it's a little too convenient, but hey, it works.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't mind debating with you coz I don't have to say the same thing 80 times like I do to most people. However with all due respect, even I am starting to grow tiresome. I posted my first post on KMC in this thread back in July. So you can see why.-AC
Yeah, I think I made my first post in this thread like a couple of weeks after you did, give or take a few days, so I can understand.