Juggernaut or The Hulk?

As ive said, Thugs took over juggernaut once... he was ten times as powerful as the hulk could ever be... PUNCHING THROUGH DIMENSIONS... as I keep saying, but people dont get it.
Cain Marko doesnt really care to master his power, because he is INVINCIBLE, he has no need to become more powerful when he already cant die as long as the magic of Cyttorak continues to march through his veins.

Juggernaut did reach his 8th circle before... but the thugs had to do it for him, he had no control over himself they were controlling him. What I dont like is the fact you people argue Juggernaut isnt invincible, and then say The hulk is more invincible than anyone else... that really makes me mad when people claim that "Oh, The Juggernaut isnt invicnible, but The hulk could be, hes surivived bombs!"

Originally posted by Tough Guy
(...) this being the case hulk is lmitkess in strength potential based purely on his anger ( which holds no limits) should be able at some point reach a level where his power/strength is too powerful for cyttorak to protect hence why i see at some point juggie getting hurt and losing to hulk. if juggie had all of cyttoraks power then huk would need to probably start off a lot more powerful to have a chance ( probably on level with war ).

It doesn't work that way, being angry has nothing to do with maths, you can't be extremely angry + 1, or very angry multiplied with factor 16,7. It's not science. At some point, you'll be as angry as you can, and that's the end of the story.

Originally posted by Tron
I think you're about right about him not mastering the full extent of his power yet. But I don't think Cyttorak sits around in the Crimson Cosmos saying, "Hmmmm, I think I'll let Juggernaut have this much power tomorrow, and then bring it down in the afternoon." I believe it's just an enchantment, he has the power and that's that. I doubt Cyttorak bothers worrying about it, although I do think he can easily take the power back if he chooses.

whokid,

Toughguy isnt completely accurate. Anger isn't the source of Hulk's power. It's adrenaline. Adrenaline release has no limit. The more adrenaline released, the stronger Hulk would become.

"Cytorak is another dimension... so in terms its not in the Marvel Universe at all."

It's a creation of Marvel Comics, thus part of the M.U.

The Heart and The Infinity Gems are more powerful than the Cyttorakk gem. Therefore that means the Gem doesn't have infinite power and nor does Cyttorak. Which means Juggernaut doesn't have this so-called infinite strength.

"It's not science. At some point, you'll be as angry as you can, and that's the end of the story."

Good point. However it's not just anger that triggers Hulk's strength, that's just the most common emotion. Fear and sadness can do it. You can always be more afraid, that's probably a limitless emotion if anger isn't (which I believe it to be). I believe you CAN get more angry but even if you couldn't, the way the anger effects you can get stronger and stronger. Frustration also, as long as Hulk realises that he isn't effecting Jug with the lower echelons of his strength, he'd have to reach the ones that worked and there would be no reason why he shouldn't. Juggernaut has never been one to watch his words. It just takes one mention of Betty or many other things and it's academic. We all know what happened to Abomination.

"What I dont like is the fact you people argue Juggernaut isnt invincible, and then say The hulk is more invincible than anyone else... that really makes me mad when people claim that "Oh, The Juggernaut isnt invicnible, but The hulk could be, hes surivived bombs!""

Dragon, invincible means unable to be overcome or defeated. Therefore neither of these combatants are invincible. There are existing means within the Marvel universe that could consequentially result in the defeat of both. Invincible doesn't apply to either. So henceforth the word shall be banished from the thread.

There.

-AC

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
whokid,

Toughguy isnt completely accurate. Anger isn't the source of Hulk's power. It's adrenaline. Adrenaline release has no limit. The more adrenaline released, the stronger Hulk would become.

Adrenaline isn't only produced by anger.

Thought I'd let everyone know that.

Before boxers fight, before sprinters run and before swimmers swim, they aren't standing there thinking "GRRRRRR!!!!!" are they? No.

-AC

Exactly. He doesn't actuallly have to "get angrier." If he continues to fight, and the adrenaline continues to flow, he will get stronger.

My point was that people are assuming consciously or sub-consciously that anger is where Hulk's adrenaline comes from and that's not the way it is. It's just the most recognised form of stimuli that leads to the Hulk coming out.

-AC

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Anger isn't the source of Hulk's power. It's adrenaline. Adrenaline release has no limit. The more adrenaline released, the stronger Hulk would become.

I brought this up many pages ago. At some point, the adrenal glands of the Hulk will reach 100% efficiency, resulting in organ failure. Once this happens, his strength will decrease exponentially until he reverts back to Bruce Banner. Therefore, it is feasable that one could defeat the Hulk by pushing him to this thresh hold. And if anyone is durable enough to last that long, it is the Juggernaut.

"I brought this up many pages ago. At some point, the adrenal glands of the Hulk will reach 100% efficiency, resulting in organ failure."

Isn't that a bit too scientific though, for a comic? If the writers and creators deemed that sensible then fair enough, I wouldn't argue. Sounds cool. Just saying.

I'd defend Juggernaut if the case were him also. Scientific realism isn't really needed here.

-AC

Exactly, this is a comic book, human physiology doesn't apply. If the writers say he has limitless strength, he has it. Adrenal gland or organ failure is out of the question, due to the healing factor, and the fact that he is eternal (read Hulk vol. 2 #460.) If you read the Hulk comics you will notice his size changes throughout the issues. He grows gradually in size allowing him to hold more adrenaline, so there is no 100%. If there was one, he wouldn't be able to lift 150,000,000,000 tons, something even the modern Juggernaut could never do.

Cheers, Tron.

If we're going to talk about adrenal glands reaching maximum capacity and organ failure, should we not also question why in this precise scientific world, there is a man walking around with a fishbowl on his head powered by a gem.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

As much as my posts rule, Vic always comes along with some thread ender.

Awesome.

-AC

Ya, my point is Juggernaut's immune to physical damage, The Hulk would get tired after a while of pounding on Juggernaut...
Question is... Where does all his muscle and anger stem from? Wouldnt that source run out? Ovbiously somehow he has to be fueled, if this continued for too long those pancakes Bruce ate for breakfest would be burned up pretty fast. Wereas all Juggernaut would need to do is to just keep making him madder and madder.
My main point ive been trying to make here, is that The hulk is only mortal... he has to eat or sleep sometime... Juggernaut, doesnt. This is where he would find someway to beat him. Juggernauts not going to stand there while he dies... if that were possible, which I guess now it is since no one knows hes really invincible anymore.

"Ya, my point is Juggernaut's immune to physical damage, The Hulk would get tired after a while of pounding on Juggernaut.."

Yeah but your point doesn't equate to fact. You don't seem to get that. You seem to think that your POINT is more concrete than stuff that is provable.

Look, Juggernaut is not invincible. Throw that theory away now. It's not an opinion. It's fact. Hulk isn't either. Most people in the M.U aren't.

-AC

Hes immune to physical attacks.

Yes, but that doesn't mean he is invincible.

Are you clear on that?

-AC

Where the hell does this guy get this stuff?

Juggernaut is not immune to physical damage. Hulk is fueled by gamma rays, the highest energy particle in all of science, and adrenaline. Science really has no place in this argument, as magically endowed power is in direct defiance of science (e.g. Juggenaut, Cytorrak etc.) No, Hulk does not get tired. Juggernaut is slower, weaker, and even dumber, than current Hulk (who has Bruce banner's intellect, all Savage Hulk's strength, regeneration and other abilities, and Joe Fixit's fighting ability and cunning.)

What do you mean immune to physical attacks doesnt make him invincible? Of course it doesnt dude... ive been talking about his fight with The hulk!
Did you think I meant everything?
Dude, im talking about Juggernaut being invincible towards ONLY The Hulk and people who use physical attacks... Not magneto or Xavier or someone, lol... well... hang on... he got burned down to his skeleton and was still alive...
Hmmm...