Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Yeah. Like when he walks at the end of the film, to the sad music.
I don't know what you wish to achieve in provoking me. Your participation currently has been far from constructive. I merely gave a samplet of Hulk in simpler terms as the version that is fascinated by the transition of darkness to light.
Obviously after 90+ pages there has to be other choices than pitting strength vs. durability or strength vs. strength. Hulk's adrenaline/anger, or whatever anyone believe it stems from has to be motivated and it will not increase if Juggernaut gives him any reason to - much like a cooling period especially when it appears that a fight is going nowhere. This could possibly be to Juggernaut's advantage if by some reason he appears overwhelmed.
Juggernaut doesn't have infinite patience as Hulk doesn't have the human level of pride. Juggernaut will leave if he's not interested and Hulk can easily leave as well, so this fight will not go on forever. This fight doesn't seem to have an end that everyone could be satisfied with as writers have dubbed the term "infinite" to both fighter's characteristics.
Juggernaut has so far not been proven to be injured fatally through physically means, while it has not been contested the limits of Hulk's potential strength level. Is there anything valid we can go by?
It doesnt really matter, fact is Juggernaut cannot be killed, by normal means anyways...
You can kill him, you can make his heart stop beating you can make him theoretically "bleed to death" but he will wake up the next morning.
This is what I dont understand. People seem to think that the one thing Juggernaut is made for, to withstand horrible beatings through physical damage, and thats the only thing hulk does, is damage through Physical means.
I just dont get it... Juggernaut was so hyped over because the fact he couldnt be killed by anything as long as he had his helmet on... Now everyone denies this... Were did this rumor even start up if its fake?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Ummm, when did Juggernaut ever lose to Dazzler? Or Rogue? And Spider-Man won out of shear luck, and one hell of a plot device (cement pit)."How can a cement pit be too much for the unstoppable, invincible, invulnerable Juggernaut to overcome yet he can somehow brawl with the strongest living being on the planet, The Hulk? Lemme guess, bad writing? Imposternaut? One of those other lame excuses? Or just because in reality, he's not that good?
For the hard of understanding, Hulk is stronger than cement.
-AC
That's a good question, especially seeing how he was able to get out of quicksand with ease, or quickly burst out of a 40 foot thick cocoon of steel. And really, how else was Spidey gonna get out of there with his life? Most cases, yeah, it is bad writing, inconsistent writing, blah blah blah. Although in some cases they can make the character look good in the same comic, it still happens. Hell, it's happened to Hulk, Gladiator, Thor, even Firelord. And as far as the Imposternaut thing goes, I thank the stars that Chuck "The Suck" didn't get his hands on Hulk, even for one issue. I would've officially retired from Marvel at that point.
"It doesnt really matter, fact is Juggernaut cannot be killed, by normal means anyways...
You can kill him, you can make his heart stop beating you can make him theoretically "bleed to death" but he will wake up the next morning."
Amazing, actually amazing. How one single person can spout so much ridiculousness is shocking to me. I mean that as NO insult, you really do amaze me with the sheer magnitude in which you contradict yourself. Just leave it to Tron, he's doing better than you are at least.
"That's a good question, especially seeing how he was able to get out of quicksand with ease, or quickly burst out of a 40 foot thick cocoon of steel. And really, how else was Spidey gonna get out of there with his life? Most cases, yeah, it is bad writing, inconsistent writing, blah blah blah."
Exactly, it always comes down to bad writing. Why though?
The ONE true accolade that Juggernaut has ever been officially given is "Unstoppable" or "Irresistable". His official taglines are false so again, why would the tricky little fake back alley powers you've been given him, make it any truer?
This is what you have to think of and I want this to be taken into consideration heavily. You think it's bad writing because it's insane that someone with Juggernaut's ability could be stopped by cement, right? Well......isn't it actually possible that all these "invincible", "unkillable" and "80 foot tall, 8th day, fights Eternity" accolades that Juggernaut has been given in this thread, are false? Yes.
KEY POINT: Juggernaut being caught in a cement pit isn't bad writing just because you think he could break out of it with the powers YOU'VE given him. Hulk has never ever been in a position where he hasn't lived up to his name, he has never been the victim of bad writing. Well, if he has it's not been because "Oh he could have got out of that." I don't stroll around giving Hulk powers that he doesn't have and then complain that he doesn't use them. Juggernaut got caught in a cement pit and couldn't get out because he just couldn't.
If anything is bad writing, it's Juggernaut punching through dimensions and challenging Eternity. Yet, that seems perfectly reasonable. Hulk's mountain claim is "bad writing". Juggernaut growing to 80 feet tall and challenging Eternity is just "unrealistic". Can I get a "Bulllllshit"?
Juggernaut is getting backed up by a load of false claims, false powers, what if's and he could's. The man got outsmarted by Spider-Man and all it took was a cement pit to beat him, that wasn't Chuck Austen so there goes one avenue of escape for the Jug fans. Oh wait of course, as predicted, that gets put down to bad writing and doesn't count for some inexplicable reason. Newsflash, in a debate about Marvel, everything counts. Everything that has been published is therefore incontinuity and like it or not, subject for use.
"And as far as the Imposternaut thing goes, I thank the stars that Chuck "The Suck" didn't get his hands on Hulk, even for one issue. I would've officially retired from Marvel at that point."
You talk about "Imposternaut" as if it was a different person. It was Juggernaut, it wasn't another man. It was Juggernaut, Cain Marko. You say he got ruined, I don't think he did. He was, in those comics, admittedly a bit of a pushover coz he was turning good, but he still had all the powers he was created to have and oh look, he was just a big strong, hard to hurt guy. Which is all he is, without all the hype and bravado from this thread.
If Jim Lee, Chuck Austen, Stan Lee, Bruce Jones and even Juggernaut's writers came in here and said "Hulk is better, would win". You'd say "Nah. You're all shit writers."
Deadpool has fought both Juggernaut and Hulk you know. He seems to have a clear cut view of how they should be compared and like I do, he thinks it's pretty laughable.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"It doesnt really matter, fact is Juggernaut cannot be killed, by normal means anyways...
You can kill him, you can make his heart stop beating you can make him theoretically "bleed to death" but he will wake up the next morning."Amazing, actually amazing. How one single person can spout so much ridiculousness is shocking to me. I mean that as NO insult, you really do amaze me with the sheer magnitude in which you contradict yourself. Just leave it to Tron, he's doing better than you are at least.
"That's a good question, especially seeing how he was able to get out of quicksand with ease, or quickly burst out of a 40 foot thick cocoon of steel. And really, how else was Spidey gonna get out of there with his life? Most cases, yeah, it is bad writing, inconsistent writing, blah blah blah."
Exactly, it always comes down to bad writing. Why though?
The ONE true accolade that Juggernaut has ever been officially given is "Unstoppable" or "Irresistable". His official taglines are false so again, why would the tricky little fake back alley powers you've been given him, make it any truer?
This is what you have to think of and I want this to be taken into consideration heavily. You think it's bad writing because it's insane that someone with Juggernaut's ability could be stopped by cement, right? Well......isn't it actually possible that all these "invincible", "unkillable" and "80 foot tall, 8th day, fights Eternity" accolades that Juggernaut has been given in this thread, are false? Yes.
KEY POINT: Juggernaut being caught in a cement pit isn't bad writing just because you think he could break out of it with the powers YOU'VE given him. Hulk has never ever been in a position where he hasn't lived up to his name, he has never been the victim of bad writing. Well, if he has it's not been because "Oh he could have got out of that." I don't stroll around giving Hulk powers that he doesn't have and then complain that he doesn't use them. Juggernaut got caught in a cement pit and couldn't get out because he just couldn't.
If anything is bad writing, it's Juggernaut punching through dimensions and challenging Eternity. Yet, that seems perfectly reasonable. Hulk's mountain claim is "bad writing". Juggernaut growing to 80 feet tall and challenging Eternity is just "unrealistic". Can I get a "Bulllllshit"?
Juggernaut is getting backed up by a load of false claims, false powers, what if's and he could's. The man got outsmarted by Spider-Man and all it took was a cement pit to beat him, that wasn't Chuck Austen so there goes one avenue of escape for the Jug fans. Oh wait of course, as predicted, that gets put down to bad writing and doesn't count for some inexplicable reason. Newsflash, in a debate about Marvel, everything counts. Everything that has been published is therefore incontinuity and like it or not, subject for use.
"And as far as the Imposternaut thing goes, I thank the stars that Chuck "The Suck" didn't get his hands on Hulk, even for one issue. I would've officially retired from Marvel at that point."
You talk about "Imposternaut" as if it was a different person. It was Juggernaut, it wasn't another man. It was Juggernaut, Cain Marko. You say he got ruined, I don't think he did. He was, in those comics, admittedly a bit of a pushover coz he was turning good, but he still had all the powers he was created to have and oh look, he was just a big strong, hard to hurt guy. Which is all he is, without all the hype and bravado from this thread.
If Jim Lee, Chuck Austen, Stan Lee, Bruce Jones and even Juggernaut's writers came in here and said "Hulk is better, would win". You'd say "Nah. You're all shit writers."
Deadpool has fought both Juggernaut and Hulk you know. He seems to have a clear cut view of how they should be compared and like I do, he thinks it's pretty laughable.
-AC
Tell me one thing how can you bleed to death when you were once nothing but a skeleton???
That doesnt even make since, "Um yeah juggernaut can bleed to death, (DEATH) but just wake up the next morining" 😆 that there is laughable. Just die and come back hmmmm makes since 🙄
Yes it is amazing how we contradict ourselves
🙄
What gives you the right to choose whats bad writing and what isnt????
O your right...going toe to toe with thing is living up to his name all right.....just like juggernaut swatted him away in 3 hits.....
Spiderman outsmarted juggernaut, yeah thats a great victory....deadpool outsmarted hulk what is your point??????? do you have one?????? if you do please share with us im dying to know.
As far as "Imposternaut" it was bad writing. Plain and simple, when a explosion nearly kills him and yet he takes thors godforce without a scratch....OOOOo something isnt right!
Ah yes us juggernaut fans can complain about imposternaut, but what if hulk was the one in his place you wouldnt complain about how awful chuck is????
Deadpool is a nut we all know that, also he compared them being scary which is true hulk is scarier if you really think about it. I mean the guy wears pupple shorts and hes green lol. But in all seriousness Hulk on his rampage is scary he is a child with a tempure tantrum, where juggernaut is in controll and not completely destroying all citizens and what not. Deadpool faired much better against hulk than he ever did against juggernaut (he always ran from juggernaut) 😉
"What gives you the right to choose whats bad writing and what isnt????"
Exactly. Tell that to like, I dunno, every Juggernaut fan who's posted in this thread.
"As far as "Imposternaut" it was bad writing. Plain and simple, when a explosion nearly kills him and yet he takes thors godforce without a scratch....OOOOo something isnt right!"
Who are you to say what's bad writing and what isn't? Whoa, deja vu. Didn't you just say that to me when I called Juggernaut challenging Eternity, bad writing? You Juggernaut fans and your contradictions. You're a funny bunch. "Imposternaut" wasn't an imposter. It was Cain Marko, stop pretending it was a different guy.
"Spiderman outsmarted juggernaut, yeah thats a great victory....deadpool outsmarted hulk what is your point??????? do you have one?????? if you do please share with us im dying to know."
My point is that Deadpool is a character in the Marvel Universe who laughed when Juggernaut was compared to the Hulk. Juggernaut was stopped by Spider-Man coz he used a cement pit. A CEMENT PIT! This is a man that you claim couldn't be stopped by Hulk, yet he got stopped by a cement pit.
"Ah yes us juggernaut fans can complain about imposternaut, but what if hulk was the one in his place you wouldnt complain about how awful chuck is????"
Hulk hasn't been. You know why? Because Hulk isn't given new powers on the internet by fanboys. Therefore Hulk fans have never been given anything to complain about. He has for a bulk of his existance, been the same as always. Chuck Austen didn't take any powers away from Juggernaut, only the "powers" you think he should have but doesn't.
"Deadpool is a nut we all know that, also he compared them being scary which is true hulk is scarier if you really think about it. I mean the guy wears pupple shorts and hes green lol. But in all seriousness Hulk on his rampage is scary he is a child with a tempure tantrum, where juggernaut is in controll and not completely destroying all citizens and what not. Deadpool faired much better against hulk than he ever did against juggernaut (he always ran from juggernaut)"
Deadpool is scared of the Hulk, by his own admission. Everytime he has to confront him he shits himself. He laughs at Juggernaut's very name. Hahaha you claiming Hulk isn't scary? Fair enough. Personally I don't think a man in lycra/armour wearing an upside down Satellite dish on his head is all that scary either.
-AC
Alrighty, I tryed responding to this yesterday, and my friend's computer f*cked up on me, so, imma try this one mroe time, and here I go.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"That's a good question, especially seeing how he was able to get out of quicksand with ease, or quickly burst out of a 40 foot thick cocoon of steel. And really, how else was Spidey gonna get out of there with his life? Most cases, yeah, it is bad writing, inconsistent writing, blah blah blah."Exactly, it always comes down to bad writing. Why though?
The ONE true accolade that Juggernaut has ever been officially given is "Unstoppable" or "Irresistable". His official taglines are false so again, why would the tricky little fake back alley powers you've been given him, make it any truer?
Well, sometimes, not all the time. Some things good, some things not. Some things could have a slight case of Plot Induced Stupidity (PIS) or Character Induced Stupidity (CIS). Still, sometimes it works for the story.
Anyways, going by your logic, Juggernaut's taglines may be false, but then again aren't just about every other character in comics (i.e. Superman "The Man of Steel", the "Invinsible" Iron Man, etc.)? And, I don't know if you're talking to me here, but I haven't given him any power or ability that he hasn't already done in comics.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This is what you have to think of and I want this to be taken into consideration heavily. You think it's bad writing because it's insane that someone with Juggernaut's ability could be stopped by cement, right? Well......isn't it actually possible that all these "invincible", "unkillable" and "80 foot tall, 8th day, fights Eternity" accolades that Juggernaut has been given in this thread, are false? Yes.
No, I don't think it's insane, and never implied that, but I do think it's a bit off for a character who's gotten out of quicksand with ease, has continued his forward movement after being telekinetically lifted by Jean Grey, has bursted out of a 40 foot thick steel cocoon, among other things I can't remember right now but will get back to, can't as easily get out of cement, but it happened, and won't overlook it. But, for what it's worth, it was a good story, and there really wasn't any other way Spider-Man was gonna win that one, as he pretty much admitted. And, how could all those accolades you mentioned be false, if they already happened? Except for the last one though, he never fought Eternity, it never even got close to a fight, it's Eternity after all. Don't know where you got them fighting from.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
KEY POINT: Juggernaut being caught in a cement pit isn't bad writing just because you think he could break out of it with the powers YOU'VE given him. Hulk has never ever been in a position where he hasn't lived up to his name, he has never been the victim of bad writing. Well, if he has it's not been because "Oh he could have got out of that." I don't stroll around giving Hulk powers that he doesn't have and then complain that he doesn't use them. Juggernaut got caught in a cement pit and couldn't get out because he just couldn't.
Once again, I think it's a little off, but it's not bad. And I never gav him any powers he didn't already have, don't know if you're referring to me or other posters. True, Hulk has always lived up to his name, with the exceptions of his first fight with Abomination, his fight in the jungle with Juggernaut, his fight underwater with Namor, and I'm sure there are others. And Juggernaut got out of thje cement, it just took him longer than it should have, that's just my opinion though, and apparantly Black Tom agreed.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If anything is bad writing, it's Juggernaut punching through dimensions and challenging Eternity. Yet, that seems perfectly reasonable. Hulk's mountain claim is "bad writing". Juggernaut growing to 80 feet tall and challenging Eternity is just "unrealistic". Can I get a "Bulllllshit"?
Well, those would only be bad writing if they went a certain way that they shouldn't have. Other than that, I don't see the problem too much there. After all, as I believe Wynndar said, punching through dimensions isn't too unbelievable when magic's involved. And challenging Eternity isn't unrealistic, it's just, stupid, and he paid for it with a trip to Oblivion, or wherever Eternity sent him and Nightmare I believe it was. And I agree, Hulk holding a mountain like that was bad in my opinion, but, he did it regardless. Yet, that being Professor Hulk, we got some people trying to say don't use Professor Hulk because he's not as strong. Now, can I get a "Bullshit"?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Juggernaut is getting backed up by a load of false claims, false powers, what if's and he could's. The man got outsmarted by Spider-Man and all it took was a cement pit to beat him, that wasn't Chuck Austen so there goes one avenue of escape for the Jug fans. Oh wait of course, as predicted, that gets put down to bad writing and doesn't count for some inexplicable reason. Newsflash, in a debate about Marvel, everything counts. Everything that has been published is therefore incontinuity and like it or not, subject for use.
Maybe, but so is Hulk, by some in here anyways. No one really has a problem with Spidey beating Juggernaut the way he did, up to that point he was displayed very well. And you're right, everything does count.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"And as far as the Imposternaut thing goes, I thank the stars that Chuck "The Suck" didn't get his hands on Hulk, even for one issue. I would've officially retired from Marvel at that point."You talk about "Imposternaut" as if it was a different person. It was Juggernaut, it wasn't another man. It was Juggernaut, Cain Marko. You say he got ruined, I don't think he did. He was, in those comics, admittedly a bit of a pushover coz he was turning good, but he still had all the powers he was created to have and oh look, he was just a big strong, hard to hurt guy. Which is all he is, without all the hype and bravado from this thread.
When did I refer to him as someone else? The comment you quoted is just that, nothing else behind it. But, in response, yeah, he was pretty much a whole different person, his personality and powers WERE changed. Getting busted up easily, being hurt by a falling building, feeling the effects of gas, having trouble lifting a ton (and the list goes on), and you tell me that's the same exact character? Anyways, all the hype and bravado, isn't all from this thread, it's from his actions and accolades in the comics, in continuity, the ones we're using.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If Jim Lee, Chuck Austen, Stan Lee, Bruce Jones and even Juggernaut's writers came in here and said "Hulk is better, would win". You'd say "Nah. You're all shit writers."
I personally wouldn't call any of them shit writers (except Austen, because he really is). They're opinions would be good ones. And I know Stan Lee created Hulk and Juggernaut, but he hasn't written for 20 years, and his character's changed plenty since that time, for those that would comment. And, I actually think, if it were reversed, and they said Juggernaut would win, there would be far more Hulk fans saying "Nah. You're all shit writers," as has pretty much already been shown earlier in this thread.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Deadpool has fought both Juggernaut and Hulk you know. He seems to have a clear cut view of how they should be compared and like I do, he thinks it's pretty laughable.
Well, I personally don't know how Deadpool views the two (that loveale loon), I still don't see how you think someone who's gotten the best of both Hulk, Thor, and others would be so laughable.
"And, how could all those accolades you mentioned be false, if they already happened?"
Invincible and Unkillable haven't already happened. This is where you start giving him powers that he doesn't have. The man isn't an immortal. He is capable of dying and being killed.
"Well, those would only be bad writing if they went a certain way that they shouldn't have."
Where did you get the authority, or where did ANYBODY get the authority to say that writers in Marvel Comics SHOULDN'T have done something? That's one question everyone eludes.
"And I agree, Hulk holding a mountain like that was bad in my opinion, but, he did it regardless. Yet, that being Professor Hulk, we got some people trying to say don't use Professor Hulk because he's not as strong. Now, can I get a "Bullshit"?"
That's OTHER people who don't know Hulk though. If Juggernaut held up that mountain, which he coincidentally could never do, it wouldn't be bad writing to you or anyone else I'm sure. Just the fact that it's Hulk. Every Juggernaut fan's excuse is "Well he has magic powers".
"Anyways, all the hype and bravado, isn't all from this thread, it's from his actions and accolades in the comics, in continuity, the ones we're using."
Firstly, I'm not saying you called Juggernaut a different person. It's just very very ignorant calling him Imposternaut. He was Juggernaut whether it was a version you liked or not. His powers were not taken away though were they? He got hurt, no one took away the gem or anything. Go and read this thread from the start IF you haven't already. Through JuggernautFan's persistant repetition, everyone has come in and started thinking Juggernaut is more than he is. To say he hasn't gained more backing from this thread is insane.
"And, I actually think, if it were reversed, and they said Juggernaut would win, there would be far more Hulk fans saying "Nah. You're all shit writers," as has pretty much already been shown earlier in this thread."
I would ask them "Why?" and if they gave me substantial proof, which no one in this thread has, as to why Juggernaut is better, fair play. You seriously believe that Dragon, Juggernaut Fan, K3vil and all them would actually agree that Juggernaut is anything less than a God? Even at the call of his creators and creative controllers? Not likely.
"Well, I personally don't know how Deadpool views the two (that loveale loon), I still don't see how you think someone who's gotten the best of both Hulk, Thor, and others would be so laughable."
The reason I say I know is because I have a comic in which Deadpool has to go talk to Hulk and is actually fearing for his life. A woman he is talking to says something along the lines of "I've fought Juggernaut" implying that it's worse. Deadpool replies with one of his trademark comedic replies making fun of the comparison, saying it's pointless comparing the two.
I actually like Juggernaut, everyone seems to think I don't. He is one of my liked villains. I however, fail to see why he is in any position to defeat The Hulk. The arguments presented here by SOME people are good, decent even, but even then I still genuinely fail to see how in the end, Juggernaut is gonna win.
-AC
Concerning the bad writing : everybody has the right to think a scene or a storyline is badly written. I have absolutely no problem with that.
Everybody who reads comics knows mistakes are made all the time ! sometimes mistakes powerwise, sometimes characterwise, and sometimes huge mistakes storywise. It gets on my nerves when I read something like (innocent voice) :"But who are we to judge the writers ?".
Do you really think that all writers have serious knowledge of the Marvel Universe ? Think again. Most writers are biased and don't know half of the background of the characters they're writing about. But hush, let's not criticize those godlike writers... 😘
If we keep complaining about it, maybe, very maybe, a few future errors can be avoided ? We can always dream...
"Concerning the bad writing : everybody has the right to think a scene or a storyline is badly written. I have absolutely no problem with that."
Whoa whoa whoa. If you have a problem with a piece, go for it. That IS your right. If you don't like something you don't have to pretend you do, totally agree.
However when it gets to the point of telling me that the writers are wrong or they made the wrong decision, I think people get out of their depth. At the end of it all, they are writing for Marvel, you're not.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"And, how could all those accolades you mentioned be false, if they already happened?"Invincible and Unkillable haven't already happened. This is where you start giving him powers that he doesn't have. The man isn't an immortal. He is capable of dying and being killed.
OKay, two things:
1) When did I ever call him invinsibe or unkillable?
2) When did I ever start giving him powers he doesn't have?
You're right, he's capable of being killed, but I still don't tink Hulk has what it takes to do it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Well, those would only be bad writing if they went a certain way that they shouldn't have."Where did you get the authority, or where did ANYBODY get the authority to say that writers in Marvel Comics SHOULDN'T have done something? That's one question everyone eludes.
Who says I have the authority for anything? In my opinion I may think something, but that's just it, my opinion. Now, I DO have the authority to believe whatever I want to believe. I never said it was fact, just my opinion, just as you have yours.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"And I agree, Hulk holding a mountain like that was bad in my opinion, but, he did it regardless. Yet, that being Professor Hulk, we got some people trying to say don't use Professor Hulk because he's not as strong. Now, can I get a "Bullshit"?"That's OTHER people who don't know Hulk though. If Juggernaut held up that mountain, which he coincidentally could never do, it wouldn't be bad writing to you or anyone else I'm sure. Just the fact that it's Hulk. Every Juggernaut fan's excuse is "Well he has magic powers".
Although I do think with enough pressure Hulk's capable of holding that much weight, my reasoning behind it is pretty picky, I'll admit, going all into physics and crap. Whether Juggernaut could do it or not, is debateable, although I'd take the same things in mind as I do Hulk.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Anyways, all the hype and bravado, isn't all from this thread, it's from his actions and accolades in the comics, in continuity, the ones we're using."Firstly, I'm not saying you called Juggernaut a different person. It's just very very ignorant calling him Imposternaut. He was Juggernaut whether it was a version you liked or not. His powers were not taken away though were they? He got hurt, no one took away the gem or anything. Go and read this thread from the start IF you haven't already. Through JuggernautFan's persistant repetition, everyone has come in and started thinking Juggernaut is more than he is. To say he hasn't gained more backing from this thread is insane.
From what I've seen, most of what made Juggernaut what he was, was taken away. His very, very very high durabilty that he's lived up to for decades, was pretty much gone. After all the things he's withstood with relative ease, he was brought down to having trouble with gas, darts, and an explosion. And you're telling me he hasn't changed? And, personally, I would've thought little of Juggernaut in this thread about 2 years ago. That was until I actually learned what he's done and what he's capable of, and that's why he's definitely a challenge for Hulk, as he's shown before, but I think I've said this already.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"And, I actually think, if it were reversed, and they said Juggernaut would win, there would be far more Hulk fans saying "Nah. You're all shit writers," as has pretty much already been shown earlier in this thread."I would ask them "Why?" and if they gave me substantial proof, which no one in this thread has, as to why Juggernaut is better, fair play. You seriously believe that Dragon, Juggernaut Fan, K3vil and all them would actually agree that Juggernaut is anything less than a God? Even at the call of his creators and creative controllers? Not likely.
Yeah, I agree, and you're one of the few that thinks like that on this thread, too bad I can't say the same for some others. And in at least JugFan's (KillAll now) defense, he like me, has no problem stating when Juggernaut would lose a fight, and has, and he's on the same page as we are on this point I believe.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Well, I personally don't know how Deadpool views the two (that loveale loon), I still don't see how you think someone who's gotten the best of both Hulk, Thor, and others would be so laughable."The reason I say I know is because I have a comic in which Deadpool has to go talk to Hulk and is actually fearing for his life. A woman he is talking to says something along the lines of "I've fought Juggernaut" implying that it's worse. Deadpool replies with one of his trademark comedic replies making fun of the comparison, saying it's pointless comparing the two.
I actually like Juggernaut, everyone seems to think I don't. He is one of my liked villains. I however, fail to see why he is in any position to defeat The Hulk. The arguments presented here by SOME people are good, decent even, but even then I still genuinely fail to see how in the end, Juggernaut is gonna win.
Well, I could see how it would be sort of pointless, but then again that depends on the way you view it I guess. Which issue was that by the way, and who was the woman?
I can understand why you think Hulk would win, as I've said, it can go either way so I can see it too. But, I still don't think it's as laughable as you might believe.
"OKay, two things:
1) When did I ever call him invinsibe or unkillable?
2) When did I ever start giving him powers he doesn't have?"
1) I fear this may have been cross purposes. I dubbed Juggernaut those accolades by way of showing you that he WASN'T worthy of them. To which you answered "Why shouldn't he be called that when it's already happened?".
2) See above.
"Although I do think with enough pressure Hulk's capable of holding that much weight, my reasoning behind it is pretty picky, I'll admit, going all into physics and crap. Whether Juggernaut could do it or not, is debateable"
A) Physics have no place.
B) If physics are your concern then science must be involved. In turn, realism must be involved which means that Juggernaut would not be able to me a huge man with immense power and therefore nobody could hold the mountain up. So you either accept that it happened or you don't, you have. You just don't agree with it, which is fine although I think the reasons for that are pointless.
"That was until I actually learned what he's done and what he's capable of, and that's why he's definitely a challenge for Hulk, as he's shown before, but I think I've said this already."
I have an extensive knowledge of Juggernaut's history in the comics, various comics that he's appeared in. People (not saying you) tend to just read this thread and assume that he can do the things people say. The reason I don't believe he can beat Hulk is because I've read all the same things these people claim to have read and none of it is half way as impressive or astounding as they claim it is.
"Which issue was that by the way, and who was the woman?"
I'm looking for the issue. However, should I not be able to find it, I have quoted it somewhere else in this thread. So I can assure you it's not BS.
-AC
Right i nebver said hulk would beat Galactus. i said it is within the bounds of his character that he would get stronger physically, s he could anyone really.
* there is no argument here. its well within hulks character to get so pissed he gets so strong and overcomes cyttoraks magic.
* tron i take it you cant prove my point to me, fair enough.
* cyttorrak isnt infinite in power as there are other more powerful magics etc., juggie only has access to a portion of this too.
* juggie is not powerful enough to knock out hulk so whats he gonna d to hurt him??????