Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A) You don't know that Hulk CAN'T knock him out...B) ...you would realise there is more to this fight than a KO...
A)We don't know who can't do a lot of things. We don't know that Juggernaut CAN'T squeeze Hulk's skull until it pops. We don't know if Hulk CAN'T override what only powerful magics have scratched on. We don't know if Juggernaut CAN'T play the accordian and we don't know if Hulk CAN'T throw a fondu party.
B) And I don't see many possible outcomes for this match. Death, KO, or the ever unpopular battlefield removal.
Oh yeah, is there an actual panel of Onslaught backhanding Juggernaut?
Edit:
Originally posted by grey fox
damn this thread is going on long but i would like to say that technically hulk would win i have seen him take on both the absorbin man and juggernaut and hand both their asses to them the onyl thign that saved jug head forimn a decapitation is the timely intervention of rick jones
Enhanced by celestrial tech and it was a freakin scimitar. Doubt it'd even cut Juggernaut.
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Hello, I guess I'm the new guy, but don't let that make you think I don't know what I'm talking about.
Welcome aboard, and I sure hope you do.😉
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Juggernaut's current level is about 80-90 tons lifted, though he is currently in a weakened state due to the fact that his powers are due only to infused effects of the Gem of Cytoraak, but the Gem is no longer directly supplying magical energies so his strength is weakened.So, with Hulk easily being at 100 tons range, the current Juggernaut would lose.
You'll get no arguements there, but we've been talking about Juggernaut at his prime for the last 100+ pages of course.
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Going by their usual levels, Juggernaut is also 100. But, Hulk would still win. Reasons:Strength: As I'm sure has been said ten-million times, Hulk grows more powerful as he grows angrier. Quickly making him physically stronger than Juggernaut.
You're right, it has been said about that many times. It's true, but quickly making him stronger is where I must disagree. As shown in their first two fights, Juggernaut more than matched Hulk blow-by-blow, and eventually started to dominate. Hulk can get stronger, but whether he can get there before Juggernaut puts him down is another matter, which is something else that has been said about ten-million times also.
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Fighting Ability: Juggernaut is sufficient at brawling, but Hulk's whole mind is thrown towards fighting and instinct. If they were both only as powerful as a more normal guy, maybe 150 pounds lifting strength or something, but had the same psyche, Hulk would definitely win.
I will agree that Hulk's the better fighter, but, in my opinion, doesn't help much against someone like Juggernaut, as shown in Hulk #172 and #.402
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Agility: I don't know if you heard, but Hulk can leap miles and miles, he is certainly more agile than Juggernaut.
Not more agile, he can just jump a lot further. If you wanna talk about agility, then we'd half to get into Spider-Man, Daredevil, Black Panther, etc. And all those guys can't come close to jumping as far as Hulk, regardless are still more agile than both him and Juggernaut.
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Healing Factor: Hulk has a powerful healing factor, Juggernaut doesn't
Now this is where you're wrong. Hulk's healing factor is powerful, but doesn't hold a candle to Juggernaut, whose mystical properties regenerate him if and whenever he's injured within seconds more than Hulk could come up with.
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Too many people are putting too much into Juggernaut's moniker. He is unstoppable, but not in the way many are saying. What his moniker means is, if Hulk were to try and stop Juggernaut's forward momentum, he would be unable, but that does not mean that Juggernaut can't lose a fight. Hulk would be able to knock Juggernaut out, Juggernaut certainly is not immune to unconciousness.
That's what most of us have been saying, it's most of the Hulk voters that are putting too much into the moniker. And Juggernaut's not immune to unconciousness, but he still has yet to be physically knocked out, which has also been said for 100+ pages here.
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
Juggernaut isn't strong enough, a good enough fighter, or agile enough to win.
Juggernaut's proven that he's more than strong enough. He's given both Hulk and Thor almost more hell than they could handle. He's given trouble to many teams and bricks, even while powered down significantly.
Don't get me wrong here, a good first post, but you haven't said anything that hasn't been said already and proven different. But still, a good first post. I just thank you for not getting all fanboyish, we already got enough of that going on, lol.
"Sure, we'll just have to wait for the next guy funneling energy from two different universes to see it again."
It might happen before this thread dies 😉.
Use of hand. Not psionics. Since Juggs mind is all that can be affected by psionics, it's obvious that it's a hand attack. Coz you can't hit him in the chest and read his mind with your finger.
A little fact about War Hulk:
Yes he was augmented and I haven't used that as saying Hulk would come out on top. However, it needs to stop getting written off. Whether he was augmented or not, that battle proved that Juggernaut isn't all he is cracked up to be. For example "Once he starts walking in a certain direction, no force on Earth can stop him." Funny coz he started running at War Hulk and War Hulk held him to a stop. Someone is gonna say "BUT HE WAS AUGMENTED", yes I know. Doesn't change the FACT that he stopped Juggernaut from RUNNING forward motion.
That's all I'll say coz War Hulk isn't taken too well here and I respect that he was augmented so I don't use it.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriUse of hand. Not psionics. Since Juggs mind is all that can be affected by psionics, it's obvious that it's a hand attack. Coz you can't hit him in the chest and read his mind with your finger.
Notice the LSD enhanced background. Notice his helmet is off. 'Cause you can't make people feel or see whatever you want when you have full control of their mind.
"Notice the LSD enhanced background. Notice his helmet is off. 'Cause you can't make people feel or see whatever you want when you have full control of their mind."
It happens all the time when people do so much as jump, in alot of comic art. The background thing. Why now is it related to psionics?
EVEN SO, hear me out, even so...it doesn't change the fact that the hand made contact with the body of Juggernaut. Juggernaut was drifting in AND out of consciousness when they found him. If Onslaught had attacked his mind, he wouldn't be drifting in and out, he'd be a vegetable. So theoretically the blow, ascention and descention then landing, is in every way POSSIBLE for him being left quadri-spaz.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
EVEN SO, hear me out, even so...it doesn't change the fact that the hand made contact with the body of Juggernaut. Juggernaut was drifting in AND out of consciousness when they found him. If Onslaught had attacked his mind, he wouldn't be drifting in and out, he'd be a vegetable. So theoretically the blow, ascention and descention then landing, is in every way POSSIBLE for him being left quadri-spaz.-AC
True, but the contact could of been part of the telepathic scene. Not all psionic attacks are ment to destroy the other's mind. Drifting in and out of conciousness could of easily been implanted by Onslaught. For all we know, Onslaught could of tapped into Juggernaut's powers and shut them off. He could of made iceman think he was on fire when he was in his ice form if he wanted to and it'd be completely real from iceman's point of view.
"Well it's a rather funny situation, considering that Onslaught said himself that he could do no harm to Juggernaut while connected to his enchantment in that little scuffle you're displaying."
Hence why he ripped the gem out.
Missing my point COMPLETELY. My point was only on contact. The blow itself. Without Cyttorak, he is nothing. As Onslaught proved. While Hulk hasn't got the ability to rip the gem out, I have explained before that theoretically, Hulk has the potential to become stronger than even that which powers Juggernaut. I dare say the fight would go on this long seeing as on this thread we're not limiting it to an amount of comic issues. Considering the huge egos of both, the fact that they both wanna win and be the better powerhouse, is obviously gonna keep it going. As Hulk gets madder, Juggernaut's chances get slimmer even by a small margin. Juggernaut will remain at the same level all the time, thus his downfall.
That was the point I was getting to.
"True, but the contact could of been part of the telepathic scene. Not all psionic attacks are ment to destroy the other's mind. Drifting in and out of conciousness could of easily been implanted by Onslaught. For all we know, Onslaught could of tapped into Juggernaut's powers and shut them off. He could of made iceman think he was on fire when he was in his ice form if he wanted to and it'd be completely real from iceman's point of view."
I agree. All I was saying was that my point of view, just as yours, COULD have been what happened. I said that before and KillAll conveniently just wrote it off.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, there are not levels of invincibility because you want there to be. The example YOU used, proves such. "Superman is invincible (undefeatable: inable to be defeated)....oh, until he gets some kryptonite against him." That means he is defeatable. Juggernaut is not invincible UNTIL someone stops him. He can be stopped and he can be overcome, therefore the "levels" do not apply as none of the applications of the word apply to Juggernaut.
This is getting ridiculous. It's like talking to a child. I've tried explaining myself in the most simple and direct manner possible yet, you STILL don't get it. Unbelievable. Other people on this this thread know what I'm talking about yet you continue to be unable to grasp such a simple concept and how it applies in the world of comic books.
Obviously you will never comprehend that there are levels of invincibility in comic books. Either you are a simpleton and you really don't comprehend this or you simply just won't accept it so that you can save whatever face you have left. For your sake, hopefully its the latter.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Seeing as Juggernaut's MIND is the only thing vulnerable to psionic, that backhand had to be physical for it to work.
Had to be, eh? More assumptions, I see?
I don't know why you're even bringing up Onslaught in regards to a battle between the Hulk and the Juggernaut, but far as Onslaught and the Juggernaut are concerned, there is no pic showing him being physically knocked clear across the country by Onslaught.
None.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Notice the LSD enhanced background. Notice his helmet is off. 'Cause you can't make people feel or see whatever you want when you have full control of their mind."It happens all the time when people do so much as jump, in alot of comic art. The background thing. Why now is it related to psionics?
Why is it related to psionics? Because that LSD background was used every time Onslaught used his psionic powers on someone. Do yourself a favor and read up and check it out.
"This is getting ridiculous. It's like talking to a child. I've tried explaining myself in the most simple and direct manner possible yet, you STILL don't get it. Unbelievable. Other people on this this thread know what I'm talking about yet you continue to be unable to grasp such a simple concept and how it applies in the world of comic books."
Trust me when I say more people are thinking that about you than they are about me. It's quite evident you are of such miniscule levels of perception. I know what you are talking about and how you WANT it to apply, that is never a problem for me. You are wrong and the problem here is your inability to accept it or to explain yourself. I love how I specifically asked you a question and you ignored it. So I'll go again.
A question: If he CAN be overcome, CAN be subdued and CAN be stopped, which are of course the three stated instances for invincibility by definition, then what is it that he has that makes you believe he is invincible? Since by multi-definition, he isn't and bearing in mind that the three definition term is the link you posted to prove his invincibility (that I have since proved wrong).
Newsflash: You can't stop going with something then change when it doesn't apply to you. You claim I "don't get it", "can't comprehend" and "don't understand". So do us all a favour and answer my question so we can see what's going on in that brain of yours. EXPLAIN what you want us/me to get.
"Obviously you will never comprehend that there are levels of invincibility in comic books. Either you are a simpleton and you really don't comprehend this or you simply just won't accept it so that you can save whatever face you have left. For your sake, hopefully its the latter."
Answer the question in bold from above post. Then we can see just who the simpleton is.
"Had to be, eh? More assumptions, I see?"
Well, you ever heard of a pure psionic-physical backhand? Didn't think so.
"I don't know why you're even bringing up Onslaught in regards to a battle between the Hulk and the Juggernaut, but far as Onslaught and the Juggernaut are concerned, there is no pic showing him being physically knocked clear across the country by Onslaught.
None."
Hahahah, done and dusted. The fact that you don't believe he got hurled across the country just shows that you never read the comics. Coz it happened. Too funny, the boy wants to apply definitions to comics when he doesn't even read them. As for bringing up other people, you brought up Superman, Colossus and Iron-Man. I mentioned Onslaught in context.
"Why is it related to psionics? Because that LSD background was used every time Onslaught used his psionic powers on someone. Do yourself a favor and read up and check it out."
Read up and check it out, says the guy who demanded pictures that Onslaught sent Juggernaut all the way to New York. If you KNOW he used it everytime.....but you haven't managed to deduce that he was actually lobbed all the way to New York, what's going on? If you read the comics you would know that he did that. Have you been quoting and reading info on the net? As opposed to comics?
You're getting your ass handed to you son. Do yourself a favour, answer my question so I can finish you off. I'm arrogant and I'm the first to admit it. You however, take arrogance to a new level. Arrogance at least requires a degree of knowledge. You are the John Kerry of KMC, I haven't seen a bigger opinion flipflopper since the US Election.
The question again incase you decided to dodge it: If he CAN be overcome, CAN be subdued and CAN be stopped, which are of course the three stated instances for invincibility by definition, then what is it that he has that makes you believe he is invincible? Since by multi-definition, he isn't and bearing in mind that the three definition term is the link you posted to prove his invincibility (that I have since proved wrong).
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A question: If he CAN be overcome, CAN be subdued and CAN be stopped, which are of course the three stated instances for invincibility by definition, then what is it that he has that makes you believe he is invincible? Since by multi-definition, he isn't and bearing in mind that the three definition term is the link you posted to prove his invincibility (that I have since proved wrong).
AGAIN I never stated that the Juggernaut was completely and totally invulnerable. I stated that the Juggernaut has a LEVEL of invincibility. Hello? Remember the simple little concept you fail to grasp? Levels of invincibility ring a bell? The simple concept that you won't admit applies in the comic book world?
Anyways, you know I never said that he was completely and totally invincible. That is what you're trying to imply I said, but you're dead wrong. You can stop trying to twist what I've said in this thread time and time again to suit your arguments to try prove me wrong. I'm free to admit that the Juggernaut isn't completely invincible. That being said, the Juggernaut has a level of invincibility in the sense that there are numerous times when the Juggernaut COULDN'T be overcome, COULDN'T be subdued, and COULDN'T be stopped by his opponents. That alone shows that he has a degree/level of invincibility.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahahah, done and dusted. The fact that you don't believe he got hurled across the country just shows that you never read the comics. Coz it happened.
I never stated that he didn't get hurled across the country. Lol. Son, you still don't read people's posts closely, do you? I stated that there is NO pic whatsoever that showed Onslaught PHYSICALLY knocking the Juggernaut clear across the country. Emphasis on the word physically. Why would I even bother using the word physical if that wasn't the point I was trying to get across? Onslaught didn't physically knock the Juggernaut across the country. Where's the panel that shows Onslaught physically hitting the Juggernaut?
You've misunderstood my posts from Day 1. Funny. For such a "respected, renown, and known" poster, all that you seem to do around here is misconstrue things and misunderstand people's posts.
On the Onslaught thing, if you haven't read what Swanky and I just discussed, do so.
"AGAIN I never stated that the Juggernaut was completely and totally invulnerable. I stated that the Juggernaut has a LEVEL of invincibility. Hello? Remember the simple little concept you fail to grasp? Levels of invincibility ring a bell? The simple concept that you won't admit applies in the comic book world?"
WHAT levels of invincibility does he have? Explain to me these invincible qualities you believe he has. You say "You don't get it. He's not completely invincible. Just on levels that apply to comics." It's a new thing where a word had seperate definitions when applied to different mediums. You posted the dictionary definition, he is none of those. So WHAT qualities does he have that makes him invincible on LEVELS? Tell me, what makes him invincible if it is NONE of the things I listed?
Stop dodging it, it's not that hard. You've been running it. Back it up.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
On the Onslaught thing, if you haven't read what Swanky and I just discussed, do so.
Again, there's NO pic that shows Onslaught actually PHYSICALLY knocking the Juggernaut across the country.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
WHAT levels of invincibility does he have? Explain to me these invincible qualities you believe he has. You say "You don't get it. He's not completely invincible. Just on levels that apply to comics." It's a new thing where a word had seperate definitions when applied to different mediums. You posted the dictionary definition, he is none of those. So WHAT qualities does he have that makes him invincible on LEVELS? Tell me, what makes him invincible if it is NONE of the things I listed?
Did you completely skip over the second paragraph of my post or are you truly that dense?
Originally posted by theflyxx
....the Juggernaut has a level of invincibility in the sense that there are numerous times when the Juggernaut COULDN'T be overcome, COULDN'T be subdued, and COULDN'T be stopped by his opponents. That alone shows that he has a degree/level of invincibility.
I'm not going to repeat it.
"....the Juggernaut has a level of invincibility in the sense that there are numerous times when the Juggernaut COULDN'T be overcome, COULDN'T be subdued, and COULDN'T be stopped by his opponents. That alone shows that he has a degree/level of invincibility."
Bottom Line: He is no different to any other villain or hero who has won and lost battles by that rationale. When it was shown that he could be overcome, subdued and stopped, he stopped being "invincible". He doesn't become invincible again after those have happened just because there are people who cannot do it to him.
Example: Let's say he got stopped, subdued and overcome by The Silver Surfer. If he then went and fought Wolverine and won, it wouldn't make him invincible again.
Now, let us move on with the thread. Thanks for answering the question.
-AC
Why is everyone calling each other son? What kind of crazy small-town is this thread? How many fingers are other people typing with?
Regardless of whether or not the actual throwing across wherever is shown, in the picture itself, Juggernaut is quite clearly embedded in the floor, as observed by others. Obviously something put him there.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Why is everyone calling each other son? What kind of crazy small-town is this thread? How many fingers are other people typing with?Regardless of whether or not the actual throwing across wherever is shown, in the picture itself, Juggernaut is quite clearly embedded in the floor, as observed by others. Obviously something put him there.
lol..yeah dude I know I don't even know as to why people debate the whole Onslaught deal as not being a physical attack..lol I mean the damb cover to the book has the title.."Someone Stopped the Juggernaut.." Was Marvel lying about the Juggernaut being stopped in the title guys...lol