WHY DO PEOPLE CONTINUE TO ARGUE?
Get it through your skulls, people! (alpha centauri, mainly)
JUGGERNAUT IS SUPER IMMUNE TO PHYSICAL ATTACK...
The Hulk's ONLY FORM OF ATTACK, is PHYSICAL...
ITS OVBIOUS who can take more in this battle, and WHO CAN last through it!
It doesnt matter how much damage you do to the competitior, in this case Juggernaut to hulk, if he cant do shit to you, Hulk to Juggernaut!
You can drop a building on him, try to drown him, starve him, pound on him till the end of the universe...
It still wont matter, because hes IMMUNE to physical damage!
You cant kill by PHYSICAL attack, now if the hulk has PSYCHIC attacks, this would be completely different, BUT HE DOESNT.
Its like a Knife VS metal paper.
"et it through your skulls, people! (alpha centauri, mainly)
JUGGERNAUT IS SUPER IMMUNE TO PHYSICAL ATTACK..."
I always knew this. It's called INVULNERABILITY.
It's the term I had to explain to you about a hundred times because you, like Fly, thought he was invincible. Dragon, you're the last person who should be telling anyone to get anything into their skulls.
"Its like a Knife VS metal paper."
Some blades are designed to cut metal.
-AC
You wanna know why I dont use Invulnrebility?
Because everyone in the entire marvel universe has invulnrebility in itself, all heroes can withstand an amazing amount of physical damage, and not die from it, so wouldnt that make everyone invulnreble? Hang on.. lets take captain america, hes invulnreble, ive seen him take tons of blows and still dish it out.
That doesnt mean, he can withstand a building falling on him. There are many different types of Invulnrebility in the Marvel world.
Hence why I dont use it for Juggernaut, he can withstand a amazing amount of force, lets say the world trade center falling on him, but captain america sure cant...
So I refer to Juggernauts amazingly excellent amount of invulnrebility, as a Super immunity. Because technically, im invulnreble too, so are you... Invulnreble means resistant, in The Marvel world.
So now, we'll call him a Super Invulnrebility.
Do you know what invulnrebility means? It basically means Immune to attack, impregnable and it means Impossible to damage, injure, or wound... and since your saying The hulk can beat juggernaut, who has invulnrebility, maybe we shouldnt use that word at all? Hmm?
Also, when I was talking about a Knife trying to cut Metal paper, I wasnt talking about SOME blades, I was talking about a Knife... not SOME blades.
"Because everyone in the entire marvel universe has invulnrebility in itself, all heroes can withstand an amazing amount of physical damage, and not die from it, so wouldnt that make everyone invulnreble? Hang on.. lets take captain america, hes invulnreble, ive seen him take tons of blows and still dish it out.
That doesnt mean, he can withstand a building falling on him. There are many different types of Invulnrebility in the Marvel world."
He feels pain though, Juggernaut doesn't in the physical sense, to a high degree anyway. Being able to take alot of damage isn't invulnerable, it's resilient.
INVULNERABLE:
Impossible to damage, injure, or wound.
People really need to think first. Everyone is applying any term that sounds good, to anyone without thinking if it actually applies.
"Invulnreble means resistant, in The Marvel world."
Since when did everyone in comics stop using words definable by the English Language? I missed that meeti.....oh wait there wasn't one.
"So now, we'll call him a Super Invulnrebility."
No, we'll call him physically invulnerable. Because that is the only thing, out of all the "I" words attached to him, that he can claim to be. He is not immortal or invincible. He's invulnerable, physically. IF anything.
-AC
Ya, but thats a contradiction, if hes physically invulnreble, doesnt that mean The Hulk cant hurt him?
Also, why dont you continue to denie Juggernauts actual one main power that makes him what he is... Juggernauts not a excellent fighter, hes not super magical (attack wise) nor is he some insane brute that can destroy entire citys, he just cant be hurt by physical attack.
You continue to try and find loop-holes as too why the Hulk, whose only attacks ARE physical, could win against someone whose base power is invulnrebility, just as hulks base power is super strength.
"Ya, but thats a contradiction, if hes physically invulnreble, doesnt that mean The Hulk cant hurt him?"
I'm using a complete term, not bending it to fit like you have done before. He is invulnerable to a very very high degree. He may not be completely, we haven't seen it proven yet coz he hasn't been in every given situation. As of YET, it's looking that way. In a full fledged battle with Hulk we might find things to be different for either character, good or bad.
"Also, why dont you continue to denie Juggernauts actual one main power that makes him what he is... Juggernauts not a excellent fighter, hes not super magical (attack wise) nor is he some insane brute that can destroy entire citys, he just cant be hurt by physical attack."
See above. I don't deny anything that's true. I leave that to the Jugg fan club.
"You continue to try and find loop-holes as too why the Hulk, whose only attacks ARE physical, could win against someone whose base power is invulnrebility, just as hulks base power is super strength."
Why is his base power now, invulnerability? Wasn't it unstoppability? Oh yeah, we proved that one wrong. Wasn't it forward motion? Proved that wrong too. Guess it was time to move on right? I'm trying to find loop-holes? At no point in this thread have I been challenged beyond my ability to counter. Thought I'd throw that out there.
-AC
Invulnerability:
Hulk possess it, Juggernaut possess it, Superman possess it, Thor possess it, Orion possess it, Wonder Woman possess it.
Now you can call it high resistance to injuries, it anyway means the subject still possess an huge and outstanding level of immunity to the physical damage.It would take a huge and massive amount of force to broke their "Invulnerability" or a hit from something that can break their defenses, two examples:
AVENGERS VS JLA #1
In the last pages Thor throws Mjolnir at Superman's face.
The strenght that Thor puts in the throw of the hammer, in that case an Uru made of hammer would hurt Supes even if it wasn't a magic hammer.The fact that magic lightnings surround the hammer was an advatange cause Superman's skin like force field cannot protect him against magic attacks, we all can see blood drops coming from Supes mouth when Mjolnir smacks him.We all can see Superman dropping blood and being hurted against Doomsday or other powerhouses, we all know Thor can survive to huge level of damage, but Ultron pumped by Chaotic Magic was able to physically hurt him, the same for thousands of Ultron's replicas, the same for the Hulk hitting Thor.
Because there a LIMIT to their invulnerability.How can writers create a comic book if the character's invulnerability cannot be really broke?The comics would just end with the enemies trying anything and getting wiped out.
Juggernaut has been physically hurted, when he land from Canada throwed by Onslaught, we don't know how, but Onslaught with Magneto's power can perform a feat like that, thorwing a guy from a state to the other, and with Xavier's power mixed to his and the Magnetic Class 100 Strenght, this is one of the cases in which Juggy gots stopped.WAR, remember WAR Hulk was able to stop him.But with the energies of TWO UNIVERSES at his disposition.And after miles and miles of fight in Egypt, it means anyway that even with that power, it takes a hella level of power to stop the Juggernaut.Juggernaut is stated as "Unstoppable" but he has a limit too.
When Onslaught rip out the Cyttorak's gem, he and Marko were surrounded by psionic energy, it means he could have simply manipulated Cain's mind, and force him to rip out his own gem.Maybe the Juggernaut can hurt himself, others can with difficult.Maybe Onslaught powers was sufficiently high to rip out the armor and pull out the gem.We all know that if Juggernaut gets hurted he can heal back at an amazing rate, the Exemplars were able to physically hurt him, Zorba slash him with his fangs, but Juggy heals back in few istants.So it's not impossible to hurt him, it's nearly impossible.
The same for Hulk, high level of "invulnerability" but not total invulnerability.
"Because there a LIMIT to their invulnerability.How can writers create a comic book if the character's invulnerability cannot be really broke?The comics would just end with the enemies trying anything and getting wiped out."
This is my exact point. Regardless of how high a level of invulnerability someone has and yes Juggernaut's is higher than Hulk's due to the magic, it doesn't mean there is no conceivably reachable limit, from an offensive point.
"WAR, remember WAR Hulk was able to stop him.But with the energies of TWO UNIVERSES at his disposition.And after miles and miles of fight in Egypt, it means anyway that even with that power, it takes a hella level of power to stop the Juggernaut.Juggernaut is stated as "Unstoppable" but he has a limit too."
Exactly, we're agreeing. What it comes down to is the fact that he is known as the "Unstoppable" Juggernaut with "unstoppable" forward movement. Regardless of who, those two have been disproven.
-AC
God, I hate the 90's. Hulk stopped Juggernaut. War Hulk is as powerful of an opposing force as the Odin Force!?! Gah, unless it happened on more than one occasion, I'll chalk it up to bad writing. One time occurences don't always mean anything. Hell, Sasquatch'd murder both of these guys if we went by events that happened one time. Punisher can penetrate adamantium with stuff that, needless to say, waasn't adamantium if we went by events that happened one time. Gambit was an interesting character if we went by events that happened one time. So, therefore, Juggernaut wasn't stopped, only slowed down so much that everyoe thought he was stopped.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Ya, but thats a contradiction, if hes physically invulnreble, doesnt that mean The Hulk cant hurt him?"I'm using a complete term, not bending it to fit like you have done before. He is invulnerable to a very very high degree. He may not be completely, we haven't seen it proven yet coz he hasn't been in every given situation. As of YET, it's looking that way. In a full fledged battle with Hulk we might find things to be different for either character, good or bad.
-AC
Alpha, you talk as if The hulk can get so mad he can beat someone with such a high degree of invulnrebility as Juggernaut.
Well heres a lil' loophole straight from the Juggboy fan-club.
Did you know The hulk has to be in mindless form to even reach that level of madness it would take to actually damage juggernaut? Did you know that no sane person with even half of a brain could get near as mad as hulk had to be to lift a mountain? Human emotions dont work like that.
But regardless, in that post I quoted you accepted the fact that there is indeed a chance juggernaut could win, but no one knows...
I am done argueing, you have said what I wanted to hear... This entire time ive been argueing with you about juggernaut is because the whole time youve continued to denie everything about Juggernaut and waste people who believe in him as what he is, a invulnreble villainous vigalante. As long as you can accept that Juggernaut, because of his main power, A very very high and not yet matched level of invulnrebility, could take down the hulk at some point possibly, then this thread is all but finished.
Originally posted by Sentinel Boy
God, I hate the 90's. Hulk stopped Juggernaut. War Hulk is as powerful of an opposing force as the Odin Force!?! Gah, unless it happened on more than one occasion, I'll chalk it up to bad writing. One time occurences don't always mean anything. Hell, Sasquatch'd murder both of these guys if we went by events that happened one time. Punisher can penetrate adamantium with stuff that, needless to say, waasn't adamantium if we went by events that happened one time. Gambit was an interesting character if we went by events that happened one time. So, therefore, Juggernaut wasn't stopped, only slowed down so much that everyoe thought he was stopped.
How many times did Juggernaut withstand the Odin Force? Countless? Many?...One?
"Alpha, you talk as if The hulk can get so mad he can beat someone with such a high degree of invulnrebility as Juggernaut."
Hulk has limitless strength. Limitless, for the learning impaired, means without limit. Therefore, someone without limited strength will always be able to become stronger theoretically than someone with limit. He doesn't have unlimited vulnerability, just extremely high.
"Did you know The hulk has to be in mindless form to even reach that level of madness it would take to actually damage juggernaut? Did you know that no sane person with even half of a brain could get near as mad as hulk had to be to lift a mountain? Human emotions dont work like that."
I'm sick of this "Hulk has to get mad" stuff. He saw the mountain seconds before it hit. He didn't have time to stand there and go "GRRRRRR!". Anger isn't the only way he gets stronger, it's emotion. Anger is just one emotion. Shhhhh.
"As long as you can accept that Juggernaut, because of his main power, A very very high and not yet matched level of invulnrebility, could take down the hulk at some point possibly, then this thread is all but finished."
Why is it finished as soon as you hear something that you like? I don't think Juggernaut could beat the Hulk but I'm not saying Hulk is gonna dance in there and knock the man out or start hurting him, at least not right away. Because of his limitless strength, he can theoretically reach a point where Juggernaut's invulnerability is no longer a factor. That is one thing that no Juggernaut fan has ever accepted, even though it is a possibility. There's always some clever little "But he has...." and then some BS.
The more and more that people break this battle down, the more and more the Juggernaut fans appear desperate. Coincidence?
-AC
lol...well I'm not backing the Hulk..but I definately recognize the blatant inconsistencies that many people seem to be repeating in favor of Ol Jugghead..lol.. I mean no one has of yet explained as to how someone can be invulnerable...yet at the same time be injured..or dazed..or have their equilibrium be thrown out of whack..lol...its just simple logic..and I have no idea as to why soo many of Jugghead's supporters can't understand that...lol...
In regards to the Hulks strength..I do believe there is a limit..but its very difficult to gauge based on the examples we've seen in comic books...
So I think the best way to characterize Hulk's strength would be to state that he's as strong as he needs to be...for any given situation he's put into...or at least that's how he's characterized...
That being sad..I believe it to be very probable for the Hulk to physically overwhelm the Juggernaut...
Yes we haven't completely seen it happen yet..but we have been given evidence of the Hulk manhandling the Juggernaut..stopping his forward progress...and knocking his helmet off..leaving him flat on his ass using pure physical force...how many characters in the MU have been able to do this?
So yes people..it would make sense..for the Hulk to be able to physically overwhelm the Juggernaut...its not that hard of a concept to accept....and doesn't make Juggernaut any less of a character..
Originally posted by whobdamandog
lol...well I'm not backing the Hulk..but I definately recognize the blatant inconsistencies that many people seem to be repeating in favor of Ol Jugghead..lol.. I mean no one has of yet explained as to how someone can be invulnerable...yet at the same time be injured..or dazed..or have their equilibrium be thrown out of whack..lol...its just simple logic..and I have no idea as to why soo many of Jugghead's supporters can't understand that...lol...
Injured? The Onslaught ordeal is extremely debatable and even if a character was completely immune to any kind of harm whatsoever they can still feel dizzy. Invincibility would not equal perfect balance.