Originally posted by who?-kidWell, that's the whole idea of a forum 😉.
....Wrong. It's generally accepted that the Hulk starts at 100 tons (roughly).
The angrier he gets, the stronger he becomes.But if you disagree, you disagree with lots of people. And what do YOU think his starting level is ? And whatever it is according to you, it is only your opinion, nothing more.
Like I said, the 100-tons thing is generally accepted. [/B]
Well for starters, each version of the Hulk has different starting levels...one time a perfectly calm savage Hulk dragged 100 million tons of lumber cross country, while gray Hulk starts around superhuman 75...for this argument i will refer mostly to savage Hulk because he is the most familiar version...green and learning impaired...I dont know who u r speaking for, but there is no way it is accepted that his strength begins at superhuman 100...especially for him to drag 100 million tons without the aid of wheels..like i said u never see the Hulk at disadvantage when it comes t strength....he is never not strong enough fo a task...i think Grey Hulk had to accept that the Thing was probably stronger than him, but this was only because it was the 2 mutated thing...it all depends on what version we r talking about, grey hulk 75 tons, Professor somewhere close to 100 tons...but savage, mindless, Maestro (further irradiated professor) and all the other incarnations possess incalculable strength levels at their starting points...there is no evidence Jugs has a stronger starting point than any of them...and about this being a forum..we can tell our opinions, but u r pretending that ur opinions r facts and misleading people who might not be as knowledgable about the Hulk and Jugs as u and i....
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JuggernautFan
[B]how am i overdoing it? from the day juggernaut was thought of and put into comics, to the day he met onslaught *sigh* he was a very consistant character. yes, somehow onslaught did what nobody else could do.
I said u were not overdoing it man...i was giving u a complement....thought u were kinda fanatic a few weeks ago...but oh well, ur screen name is JuggernautFan, what can expect...I love how u always quote my entire post but never read it....u say he was consistent before Onslought, however I gave two examples of him being stopped, hurt, and wounded but u did not acknowledge them....u even continued to say that he was consistenly invulnerable and unstoppable....as for ur claims that he is stronger than base level hulk, I already commented on that false idea in my last post....but like i said, a torch that nightcrawler threw at him hhurt him, Colossus knocked him on his ass in that issue and the next (Uncanny X-men 102 and 103) then in New Warriors #12 he was wounded by a force filed that was not even at full power....then a Thor like character knocked him down with a lightning bolt and proved to be his equal in h2h combat...again, if ur going to quote me acknowledge what i type...again Jugs is not unstoppable and Onslought was not the first person to hurt him
THE HULK HAS BEATIN JUGGERNAUT NOT ONCE BUT TWICE JUGGERNAUT HAS ONLY BEATIN THE HULK ONCE AND THATS ONLY BECUASE HE WASNT HIS ARMOR AND HE TRICKED HULK CAUSE HULK THOUGHT HE WAS A NORMAL MAN. HOW CAN U COMPARE JUGGER NAUT TO THE HULK I MEAN HULK WENT AT IT WITH ONSLAUGHT AND AND WAS ABLE TO BREAK HIS ARMOR AND THATS A WHOLE HELL OF ALOT MORE THAN JUGGERNAUT DID WHEN HE TRIED TO TAKE HIM ON. GREY HULK STARTS AT 75 TONS SAVAGE HULK PROFESOR HULK MINDLESS HULK ALL START OFF AT ATLEAST A 100 TONS IF NOT MORE BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN THE HULK HOLD UP A MOUNTAIN THAT WEIGHED BILLIONS OF TONS ,AND I DONT EVEN KNOW HOW STRONG ULTIMATE HULK IS BUT IM GUESSING HE IS THE STRONGEST CONSIDERIN HE BEAT IRON MAN CAPTAIN AMERICA ,GIANT MAN,AND THOR ALL WITHIN ABOUT 30 MIN TO AN HOUR. HOW CAN JUGGERNAUT EVEN BEAT HULK HE DONT HAVE NO ADVANTEGES AGAINST HIM THEY ARE BOTH INVULNERABLE BUT UNLIKE JUGGERNAUT HULKS STREGTH KEEPS GROWING AND NOT TO MENTION HE IS FASTER
Originally posted by JuggernautFan
how am i overdoing it? from the day juggernaut was thought of and put into comics, to the day he met onslaught *sigh* he was a very consistant character. yes, somehow onslaught did what nobody else could do. .
I didnt quote that right the first time...
I said u were not overdoing it man...i was giving u a complement....thought u were kinda fanatic a few weeks ago...but oh well, ur screen name is JuggernautFan, what can expect...I love how u always quote my entire post but never read it....u say he was consistent before Onslought, however I gave two examples of him being stopped, hurt, and wounded but u did not acknowledge them....u even continued to say that he was consistenly invulnerable and unstoppable....as for ur claims that he is stronger than base level hulk, I already commented on that false idea in my last post....but like i said, a torch that nightcrawler threw at him hhurt him, Colossus knocked him on his ass in that issue and the next (Uncanny X-men 102 and 103) then in New Warriors #12 he was wounded by a force filed that was not even at full power....then a Thor like character knocked him down with a lightning bolt and proved to be his equal in h2h combat...again, if ur going to quote me acknowledge what i type...again Jugs is not unstoppable and Onslought was not the first person to hurt him
Originally posted by SUPERMANDAMAN
THE HULK HAS BEATIN JUGGERNAUT NOT ONCE BUT TWICE JUGGERNAUT HAS ONLY BEATIN THE HULK ONCE AND THATS ONLY BECUASE HE WASNT HIS ARMOR AND HE TRICKED HULK CAUSE HULK THOUGHT HE WAS A NORMAL MAN. HOW CAN U COMPARE JUGGER NAUT TO THE HULK I MEAN HULK WENT AT IT WITH ONSLAUGHT AND AND WAS ABLE TO BREAK HIS ARMOR AND THATS A WHOLE HELL OF ALOT MORE THAN JUGGERNAUT DID WHEN HE TRIED TO TAKE HIM ON. GREY HULK STARTS AT 75 TONS SAVAGE HULK PROFESOR HULK MINDLESS HULK ALL START OFF AT ATLEAST A 100 TONS IF NOT MORE BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN THE HULK HOLD UP A MOUNTAIN THAT WEIGHED BILLIONS OF TONS ,AND I DONT EVEN KNOW HOW STRONG ULTIMATE HULK IS BUT IM GUESSING HE IS THE STRONGEST CONSIDERIN HE BEAT IRON MAN CAPTAIN AMERICA ,GIANT MAN,AND THOR ALL WITHIN ABOUT 30 MIN TO AN HOUR. HOW CAN JUGGERNAUT EVEN BEAT HULK HE DONT HAVE NO ADVANTEGES AGAINST HIM THEY ARE BOTH INVULNERABLE BUT UNLIKE JUGGERNAUT HULKS STREGTH KEEPS GROWING AND NOT TO MENTION HE IS FASTER
ok......... hulk 172, nobody had won the battle. fairly inconclusive. 402, juggernaut in street clothes beat hulk senseless (1 for juggernaut). hulk 404, 2 punchs from hulk to juggernaut, then a telepathic backlash knocked juggernaut out.... NOT HULK. inconclusive yet again. 457, was hulks only win....... even then he was upgraded significantly from his original form. so how do you get that hulk has beaten juggernaut twice????
Originally posted by Wynndar
I didnt quote that right the first time...
I said u were not overdoing it man...i was giving u a complement....thought u were kinda fanatic a few weeks ago...but oh well, ur screen name is JuggernautFan, what can expect...I love how u always quote my entire post but never read it....u say he was consistent before Onslought, however I gave two examples of him being stopped, hurt, and wounded but u did not acknowledge them....u even continued to say that he was consistenly invulnerable and unstoppable....as for ur claims that he is stronger than base level hulk, I already commented on that false idea in my last post....but like i said, a torch that nightcrawler threw at him hhurt him, Colossus knocked him on his ass in that issue and the next (Uncanny X-men 102 and 103) then in New Warriors #12 he was wounded by a force filed that was not even at full power....then a Thor like character knocked him down with a lightning bolt and proved to be his equal in h2h combat...again, if ur going to quote me acknowledge what i type...again Jugs is not unstoppable and Onslought was not the first person to hurt him
fine......... juggernaut has to decide when to move in a certain direction before the laws apply that he cannot be stopped. colossus did knock him down, but confused the actual affectiveness of his attack with what it seemed like he was doing. colossus then got knocked out for his efforts of pushing juggernaut backwards. with a single punch. also, when juggernaut was digging through train wreckage even thors punch sent him flying backwards.... but it wasn't because he was intent on going forward but just standing there. as for the torch to the eyes.... i'll have to go back and re-read the issue to get details on it. i do know it was his eyes that it hit, and they have been vulnerable to attack before, but healed near instantaneously after they had been hurt.......... not sure about the force field in new warriors #12 either....... let me do some research and get back with you on that. plus how did you address the issue of hulk being stronger at base levels?? i don't have time to read every post and i must have missed it. sorry for misunderstanding what you said about me overdoing it, i understand now......
how do you actually determine Hulk's base level? Each incarnation of him and mood he is in at the time drastically varies his base level.
Hulk could see a cat get run over by a car and suddenly feel rage that would put him well over 100 tons, hell, he could hear a loud bang that scares him and gives him an adrenaline increase past 100 tons almost undoubtably too..
Of course this isn't something that has been proven yet, so please don't bother quoting this.
Originally posted by Wynndar
Well for starters, each version of the Hulk has different starting levels...one time a perfectly calm savage Hulk dragged 100 million tons of lumber cross country, while gray Hulk starts around superhuman 75...for this argument i will refer mostly to savage Hulk because he is the most familiar version...green and learning impaired...I dont know who u r speaking for, but there is no way it is accepted that his strength begins at superhuman 100...especially for him to drag 100 million tons without the aid of wheels..like i said u never see the Hulk at disadvantage when it comes t strength....he is never not strong enough fo a task...i think Grey Hulk had to accept that the Thing was probably stronger than him, but this was only because it was the 2 mutated thing...it all depends on what version we r talking about, grey hulk 75 tons, Professor somewhere close to 100 tons...but savage, mindless, Maestro (further irradiated professor) and all the other incarnations possess incalculable strength levels at their starting points...there is no evidence Jugs has a stronger starting point than any of them...and about this being a forum..we can tell our opinions, but u r pretending that ur opinions r facts and misleading people who might not be as knowledgable about the Hulk and Jugs as u and i....
No, I know very well the difference between an opinion and a fact. And the fact remains that it is generally accepted that an average, rather calm Hulk starts at 100 tons (not talking about the grey one).
But of course, there are so many Hulks : savage Hulk (my personal favorite), professor Hulk, mindless Hulk...
But since you never seem to believe me, I'll help you a bit:
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/h/hulk.htm
- The Hulk possesses superhuman strength of the Class 100 level, enabling him to lift (press) in excess of 100 tons. The Hulk only attains this strength level when he is enraged. In a totally, calm state his functional strength is significantly less, perhaps in the 70 ton range.
http://www.hulklibrary.com/hulk/info/profile.asp
- The Hulk possesses superhuman strength of the Class 100 level, enabling him to lift (press) in excess of 100 tons. The Hulk only attains this strength level when he is enraged. In a totally, calm state his functional strength is significantly less, perhaps in the 70 ton range.
In human form Bruce Banner possesses the normal human strength of a man of his age, height, and build who engages in no regular exercise.
http://www.film-fix.com/hulk-powers.htm
- All the incarnations of the Hulk, except for the Grey Hulk, can lift approximately 100 tons when calm. The Grey Hulk starts off at approximately 75 tons. As the familiar old adage goes, "the Madder the Hulk gets, the Stronger he gets."
http://www.hulklibrary.com/hulk/info/hulk-incarnations.asp?Id=professor
- The Professor has Banner's genius intellect, the Savage Hulk's strengh (initial strength level which is around 100 tons), and the Gray Hulk impetus. He's taller and broader than the Savage Hulk. At first it seems like the perfect incarnation. But it is more vulnerable than the Savage Hulk (it's been hurt often), and it cannot reach the level of strenght of the Savage Hulk either because Banner is in control
http://pc59te.dte.uma.es/cdb/series/marvel/hulk.htm
- Powers: The hulk possess Superhuman strength that alows him to lift (bench press) in excess of 100 tons, the Hulk also posses a superhuman healing factor enabling him to heal from wounds that would kill others
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1117
"What the Hulk is best known for is his great strength. In his strongest incarnations, the Hulk can lift about 100 tons (the Grey Hulk can lift about 80 tons). But this strength is fueled by the Hulk's anger. As the saying goes, "the madder Hulks gets, the stronger Hulk gets". His strength is potentially limitless, granted that he gets continually angrier and angrier -- something the Hulk is very good at.
Many of of the more intelligent Hulk incarnations like Banner Hulk and the Grey Hulk don't gain strength at the same rate as some of the less intelligent Hulks like the Savage Hulk or the Mindless Hulk. But they have the same potential, should they become properly angry."
I am aware that lots of websites copy from each other (the first two for example), but still...Are you convinced now ?
And also very important : read what I have underlined thoroughly. How do you explain that an intelligent Hulk was able to become millions of times stronger in a split second ? Not even savage Hulk could have done that in that short time...
That's what I have been saying all along : maaaybeee I could accept that he can lift 150 BILLION tons. Maaaybee... But NOT when he's not mad or not scared.
BTW : savage Hulks initial strength is 100 tons.
it all depends on what incarnation of either charcater youre dealing with. for example, recently, the juggman has lost some of his power, and recently the hulk's power has increased. So it all depends. HOwever, if both of them are at there peak theyre pretty evenly matched but I still would have to say Juggernaut because even thoough the hulk gets stronger as he gets madder, eventually, even though it would take for ever, but eventually hulk would get tired where as the Juggernaut wouldnt.
Originally posted by Never
Let me post this from his bio and see if you catch it (yes, it responds directly to your query about him being "relatively calm"😉."During times of >>>>>>>>>>high stress<<<<<<<<<<<< or anger, an increase in adrenaline causes the Hulk's strength to increase dramatically."
Do you see it now? Do you see now why a "relatively calm" (BUT STRESSED) Hulk can do it?
Nope, don't see it. But enlighten me, what do you call "increase dramatically ?". It's very vague.
I would say that when his strength doubles, it increases dramatically. Or even when he would become 10 times stronger. O what the heck, 1000 times stronger. Now that's what I call "increasing dramatically". But euhm, a billion times... ? That's what I call ridiculous.
Another thing : his power level may increase, but his bio doesn't say how much time it normally takes him, does it ? And an intelligent Hulk needs much more time than a savage Hulk to become significantly stronger.
So, again, back to the infamous Secret Wars thing:
Was Hulk mad : no.
Was Hulk scared : maybe a bit, but not that much.
Was Hulk intelligent : yes.
So we have a not mad, not scared and intelligent Hulk, but for some reason (the adrenaline thing-yeah right...) the writers didn't care about these "details", and made him millions of time stronger in a few seconds.
And you accept that ? I know it happened, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with it.
One, when did Onslaught "kick Hulk's ass?" I have the comic book right here. Never happened. Speaking of hyperbole...
If you have the comic right there, why don't you read it ? Hulk (who asked Jean Grey to help him, because "it was the only way" or something like that - I have a translated comic, so I don't know what the precise words are) managed to hurt Onslaught once, with one powerful punch.
If you look close at the pictures, you'll see that Hulk manages to hurt and surprise Onslaught only once - his first punch, which was very powerful. The rest of the fight... well, they traded punches, but Onslaught managed to hurt Hulk 2 times AND was laying on top of him.
"Onslaught ruled?" Huh!? They went back and forth, shattering windows. Hold up lemme crack this open. Yeah - you are definitely exaggerating. First panel, Hulk hits Onslaught causing him to say "Hnngh!" Second panel shows them meeting each other (grappling, perhaps). Third panel Onslaught hits Hulk with what appears to be an uppercut. Hulk didn't budge. Fourth panel, Hulk hits Onslaught with a right cross. Subsequent panels show Onslaught connecting with a left, then double-fisted uppercut. The next punch thrown is Hulk's, which shatters his armor.
Gentlemen...Hulk hit Onslaught three times (visibly), Onslaught hit Hulk three times.
You have to tell the whole story. Hulk only managed to hurt Onslaught once : his first (sucker)punch. The rest of the fight... well, they traded punches but it's impossible to see who hurt who, but Onslaught certainly managed to hurt Hulk 2 times AND was laying on top of him.
Two, if Hulk was not as (we'll say "angry" considering that is the word we are discussing) "angry" then, why should he be able to lift 150 billion tons? Real life question. How much can you bench press? Okay...now if your LIFE was on the line (better yet, your mother's) - how much could you bench press?
I would press more if my mother was in danger. Everybody knows that. But I wouldn't become insanely strong.
Whoa, you must have read an entirely different #300. Hulk did not "bow" to jack. You have to be kidding me? They traded blows. Then Hulk went flying into the statue (adamantium). Hulk picked it up. Thor threw Mjolnir, creating that reverberating noise. All covered their ears.
Hm, they fought, they traded punches, and the fight ended because of two things : 1. Hulk meeting mjolnir (say hi to my hammer) 2. Dr. Strange showing up.
Now, I never said Thor won, or should have won. I only wanted to say that the Hulk Thor fought, should have been, according to your theory (not mine) almost limitless strong. After all, he WAS extremely furious !!
Now, look at him, flying through the air...
I have all day....
Too bad, I don't.
Let me hover a mountain range that dwarfs the Andes over YOUR head and "courageous" is NOT the word that will describe you.
Then let it drop.
But I'm not the Hulk. You're avoiding the question.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Nope, don't see it. But enlighten me, what do you call "increase dramatically ?". It's very vague.
And this undermines your argument. It IS vague, so it CAN mean it doubles, quadruples, or increases exponentially. They allow for any of the aforementioned BY being vague.
Another thing : his power level may increase, but his bio doesn't say how much time it normally takes him, does it ? And an intelligent Hulk needs much more time than a savage Hulk to become significantly stronger.
There is only one "main" intelligent incarnation...and I do not get your question re: "but his bio doesn't say how much time it normally takes him."
Was Hulk mad : no.
Agreed.
Was Hulk scared : maybe a bit, but not that much.
Prove he was not afraid when the mountain dropped? You have no clue how afraid he was considering they did NOT show any of their faces when the mountain hovered or when it dropped.
Was Hulk intelligent : yes.
Wrong. The incarnation in Secret Wars was "Savage Hulk." His intelligence level?
"Intelligence: Child-level"
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/savagehulk.html
And you accept that ? I know it happened, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with it.
Am not asking you to agree. Have not problem disagreeing. Simply addressing what ***I*** consider to be incongruities.
If you have the comic right there, why don't you read it ? Hulk (who asked Jean Grey to help him, because "it was the only way" or something like that - I have a translated comic, so I don't know what the precise words are) managed to hurt Onslaught once, with one powerful punch.
You said Onslaught "kicked Hulk's ass." Neither the dialogue NOR the art come even CLOSE to supporting you.
If you look close at the pictures, you'll see that Hulk manages to hurt and surprise Onslaught only once - his first punch, which was very powerful. The rest of the fight... well, they traded punches, but Onslaught managed to hurt Hulk 2 times AND was laying on top of him.
See above.
You have to tell the whole story. Hulk only managed to hurt Onslaught once : his first (sucker)punch. The rest of the fight... well, they traded punches but it's impossible to see who hurt who, but Onslaught certainly managed to hurt Hulk 2 times AND was laying on top of him.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
I would press more if my mother was in danger. Everybody knows that. But I wouldn't become insanely strong.
A woman lifting a car to rescue her child is what I consider "insanely strong."
Hm, they fought, they traded punches, and the fight ended because of two things : 1. Hulk meeting mjolnir (say hi to my hammer) 2. Dr. Strange showing up.
Wrong. The only reason it ended was because Dr. Strange teleported him, and he teleported him because that was the ONLY way to end it. The dialogue will support me here. Like to see it verbatim?
Now, I never said Thor won, or should have won. I only wanted to say that the Hulk Thor fought, should have been, according to your theory (not mine) almost limitless strong. After all, he WAS extremely furious !!
And no soul here has an equation that demonstrates the ratio of Hulk's strength to Hulk's anger...besides the fact that he who wrote Secret Wars did not write IH #300. Different interpretation of the character.
Too bad, I don't.
If I have not before, perhaps it is time I introduce you to "sarcasm."
But I'm not the Hulk. You're avoiding the question.
Never have, never will.
Originally posted by SUPERMANDAMAN
the only reason juggernaut ever beat hulk is because hulk thought that he was a regular person so he pretty much took the hit not expecting it to hurt him
and the only reason hulk won is because of psionics, and celestial tech. we can play what if/ what we think would happen all day. but it doesn't change that fact that juggernaut knocked hulk out cold.
Originally posted by SUPERMANDAMAN
and in what way do u figure that hulk had been upgraded other than having a sword how can u upgrade someone with limitless strength?
and juggernaut got his ass handed to him by onslaught but the was actually able to put up a good fight
you are mistaken here. hulk has *potential* to reach incalculable levels of strength. his base strength is not limitless........ please do a little bit more research. hulk has to get angry to become stronger, war hulk did not. he was a walking anomaly. he was funneling 2 universes worth of energy at the time. apocalypse picked up on this and implanted him with celestial tech allowing him to harness that energy. so he no longer had to become enraged to get stronger, he simply summoned the energy needed. i'd call that a major upgrade.
Originally posted by Wynndar
I didnt quote that right the first time...
I said u were not overdoing it man...i was giving u a complement....thought u were kinda fanatic a few weeks ago...but oh well, ur screen name is JuggernautFan, what can expect...I love how u always quote my entire post but never read it....u say he was consistent before Onslought, however I gave two examples of him being stopped, hurt, and wounded but u did not acknowledge them....u even continued to say that he was consistenly invulnerable and unstoppable....as for ur claims that he is stronger than base level hulk, I already commented on that false idea in my last post....but like i said, a torch that nightcrawler threw at him hhurt him, Colossus knocked him on his ass in that issue and the next (Uncanny X-men 102 and 103) then in New Warriors #12 he was wounded by a force filed that was not even at full power....then a Thor like character knocked him down with a lightning bolt and proved to be his equal in h2h combat...again, if ur going to quote me acknowledge what i type...again Jugs is not unstoppable and Onslought was not the first person to hurt him
i should have addressed this sooner..... That was a mutant Juggernaut from an alternate reality where everyone was different from the mainstream,Steve O. The forcefield hurt that Juggernaut because it was a mutagenic cell disruptor specifically designed to keep mutants out. if you are going to argue against juggernaut, please make sure it's main stream marvels. not some alternate reality/what if/ or a cartoon.