Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Rhino gives Hulk trouble?

Ummm...DON'T....THINK.....SO..

Even after getting upgraded or whatever increase he got, Hulk still beat the day lights out of Rhino. And has beaten the crap out of him every time.

How many times has Hulk fought Thing? ummmm.....A LOT! It's supposed to be a Classic Marvel battle. What good would a classic battle be if one guy turned the other into a rag doll.

Interesting how Hulk can stand toe to toe with Juggernaut, but struggle with Thing. And Juggernaut can stand toe to toe with Hulk, and win in 3 punches.

any rematch of Jugg vs. Thing....you would see Juggernaut go back and forth with Thing and "give him trouble" just the same as the Hulk. Obviously Juggs would win...but in that fight, Thing didn't even get to swing a punch. Even Venom (pre-mercury) put up a better fight than that.

venom only landed 3 punchs, and this all still happened in continuity. venom didnt do any better, he just lasted longer. but the results were the same. i think the fight would go much the same way if it happened again. but the point about rhino is, he usually doesnt go down, as easily as he did against juggernaut.

"he usually doesnt go down, as easily as he did against juggernaut."

Might wanna read the Surfer issue where Rhino hits Surfer with all he has and nothing much happens.

-AC

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Rhino gives Hulk trouble?

Ummm...DON'T....THINK.....SO..

Even after getting upgraded or whatever increase he got, Hulk still beat the day lights out of Rhino. And has beaten the crap out of him every time.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]
Hulk has POTENTIALLY unlimited strength and I have said I know he can't use it when calm but alot of people have the misconception that he needs time. He doesn't.

well even if he didnt need time, he had it. he had been raging for nearly 2 days, and failed to overpower juggernaut. he was mad, no ifs and or buts about it. he was not at a normal level of strength (calm) and he wasnt any stronger than juggernaut....... deal with it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

"but he could get beat by juggernaut. juggernaut is more than capable of holding his own. "

I don't agree with the first part. The second I agree with.

well juggernaut has beaten hulk before, so by extension you have to accept that hulk can be beaten by juggernaut

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

"Juggernaut was tall enough so that wolverine had fallin into one of the holes in his helmet..... he was as tall as galactus in that issue, if not taller....... whats your point?? everything that has to do with juggernaut performing a feat of strength, or winning, in your eyes is bad writing, because you do not want to accept the facts....."

I have an idea JuggernautFAN, lets not...no seriously hear me out. Lets not assume.....what I think. How about that? Lets give that a whirl. Juggernaut can kick major ass and he's one of my favourite villains. Has been for ages, however beating Hulk is out of his reach. My point about making him AS TALL AS GALACTUS was that it was a bit silly. Coz it is. If it happened to Hulk you would be on it like a dog on heat.

i dont complain about war hulk. i know he was much more powerful than the regular version of hulk. i know he stopped juggernaut cold. but the difference between you and i, is that i know HOW he stopped him. also, just because he was as tall as galactus doesnt mean he was as powerful. but it does imply that he was much more powerful than a normal level of power, because usually he grows/shrinks with the amount of power he has gained/lost.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

"but somehow, some way, there are a few silly people out there that think hulk is just too good."

Before you go calling anyone silly, we should do well to remember your claim of "Hulk has 0% chance of beating Juggernaut". So yeah, possibly the dumbest quote in this thread and you have the gaul to imply that I'm silly for things I haven't even said.

but you do think that hulk can't be beaten by juggernaut. which is totally un-true.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

"hulk has had more of a chance to prove himself, because he has his own ongoing series. whereas juggernaut does not....so how exactly has hulk proven he is stronger?? "

You said yourself you own every Juggernaut appearance. Own every Hulk appearance and then you can make a safe comparison.

i own quite a bit of hulk, and i still have my opinion about who is stronger, and who would win...... this was rather mute.. just because hulk did it, doesnt mean juggernaut cant. because juggernaut just hasnt been in that particular situation before.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Juggernaut/Hulk Vs Rhino= Juggernaut has beaten him. So has Hulk. So has Spider-Man. Irrelevant opponent.

it's not an irrelavant opponent. rhino has been strong enough to fight hulk, atleast for a couple pages. he didn't last long against a de-powered juggernaut at all. A DEPOWERED JUGGERNAUT.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Juggernaut/Hulk Vs Thor= Thor has beaten Juggernaut. Thor gives Hulk all he's got and it does jack for the most part.

but thor usually "wins" by teleportation. even when he negated -MOST- of his energy, a barage of punchs couldn't drop cain, but cain dropped thor with just 1 (one) punch. thor has also stalemated hulk without using all his power. he used every last one of his powers, even the godforce, to try to drop juggernaut. which makes me think that thor thinks he needs all that against juggernaut, but not against hulk. at one point he had to question weather he was losing his life or not against juggernaut. has he ever did that with hulk????

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Juggernaut/Hulk Vs Onslaught= Left his helmet behind eh? Funny that coz when Juggernaut is laying at the bottom of the crater after being hurled across the US. He had his helmet on when he was discovered. He didn't call UPS to have it mailed. He wore it when he fought Onslaught and got the shit kicked out of him. Hulk ripped open his armour and put an end to his terror.

well, in that mini series, he had his mind read a couple of times (THROUGH HIS HELMET) which would show inconsistancy with previously written material. that is in bios, and actual comics. also, the fight wasnt show, he just lands, and only remembers the 1 punch??? funny how he doesnt remember anything else. i was talking about the "fight" in the mansion when onslaught telepathically subdued juggernaut. i have an idea....... dont assume you know what im' talking about. sound farmiliar????

"well even if he didnt need time, he had it. he had been raging for nearly 2 days, and failed to overpower juggernaut. he was mad, no ifs and or buts about it. he was not at a normal level of strength (calm) and he wasnt any stronger than juggernaut....... deal with it."

That's another big misconception. He doesn't need time but just because he has it, doesn't mean he will continually get mad. It is possible for him to stay at a certain level of anger for continualy amounts of time. You tell me to deal with it when I'm really not the one arguing with a biased view JuggernautFan.

"well juggernaut has beaten hulk before, so by extension you have to accept that hulk can be beaten by juggernaut"

Which "defeat" are you refering to? The one when Hulk didn't fight back?

"i dont complain about war hulk. i know he was much more powerful than the regular version of hulk. i know he stopped juggernaut cold. but the difference between you and i, is that i know HOW he stopped him. also, just because he was as tall as galactus doesnt mean he was as powerful. but it does imply that he was much more powerful than a normal level of power, because usually he grows/shrinks with the amount of power he has gained/lost."

Oh yes of course. You know that I don't own those comics and all that. Yeah, you know how I don't know that Hulk had his powers augmented. I own those comics and I know how it happened, don't try to undermine me because it simply wont work. The more you underestimate me the more open this debate is. Juggernaut being 100 feet tall is disgraceful writing. The mountain thing I'll admit was one dubious piece out of an awesomely written piece. I admit that. Juggernaut doesn't need to be 100 feet tall. He doesn't. It's pointless.

"but you do think that hulk can't be beaten by juggernaut. which is totally un-true."

Having the opinion that Hulk can't be beaten by Juggernaut is alot more truthful than Hulk having 0% chance. That is a fact.

"i own quite a bit of hulk, and i still have my opinion about who is stronger, and who would win...... this was rather mute.. just because hulk did it, doesnt mean juggernaut cant. because juggernaut just hasnt been in that particular situation before. "

Well supposing in the Hulk's you don't own, Hulk displays some phenomenal feat of strength? You wouldn't know. You're judging everything Juggernaut has ever done against some of Hulk's accomplishments.

"it's not an irrelavant opponent. rhino has been strong enough to fight hulk, atleast for a couple pages. he didn't last long against a de-powered juggernaut at all. A DEPOWERED JUGGERNAUT"

He fought Surfer for a whole comic. It was a whole comic of him getting whooped. There's a difference.

"but thor usually "wins" by teleportation. even when he negated -MOST- of his energy, a barage of punchs couldn't drop cain, but cain dropped thor with just 1 (one) punch. thor has also stalemated hulk without using all his power. he used every last one of his powers, even the godforce, to try to drop juggernaut. which makes me think that thor thinks he needs all that against juggernaut, but not against hulk. at one point he had to question weather he was losing his life or not against juggernaut. has he ever did that with hulk????"

Again, there are more Thor and Hulk fans than Juggernaut. If you're trying to display a villain that needs more exposure, you don't get him whooped out of the way. Thor and Hulk are both looked upon as good guys despite Hulk being a neutral so it's typically gonna end in a draw. However, most of the time Hulk beats Thor. Thor can't even rely on Mjolnir in his fights with Hulk anymore coz it does nothing. Thor feared for his life when he started smacking Hulk up with Mjolnir and it did nothing. Who wouldn't? Oh....of course....Juggernaut wouldn't....

"also, the fight wasnt show, he just lands, and only remembers the 1 punch??? funny how he doesnt remember anything else. i was talking about the "fight" in the mansion when onslaught telepathically subdued juggernaut. i have an idea....... dont assume you know what im' talking about. sound farmiliar????"

Just coz he only remembers the one punch it doesn't mean there was reason to dismiss the fact that there could have been a fight. He was battered, that didn't come from one punch. Almost killed him. Wow, unstoppable force indeed. The thing is, I'm specific when I address battles. You say "When they fought....." and let that be it. Try being specific.

-AC

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Stop right there.

Hulk has proven many many times through different displays of strength that he is stronger than Juggernaut. Can Juggernaut jump out of the atmosphere? NO Did he crack Onslaught's armor? No.

"Marvel Comics Presents #52: With the help of some gadgets that enhance his jumping the Hulk is able to leap into space to smash an asteroid that is greater than double the planet earths mass."

Admittedly he may have done it since then without additional enhancements. Negative on the second however. How did Onslaught get around the "no force on Earth" part of Juggernaut's enchantment? He is merely an amalgam of Professor X and Magneto's psyche/power. Did he have Franklin in him then?

Whether Onslaught's attack was psychic or not Juggernaut's helmet has failed him twice against Psylocke (pre and post Ninja-fication). Maybe Prof X unleashed was more than helmet could handle? Besides, its the rents in his armor that threw me more than anything. That is supposed to be indestructable.

His skin however is supposed to be the equal of his armor.
"Known Superhuman Powers:The Juggernaut's body is completely invulnerable. His skin cannot be broken and he is incapable of feeling pain or sustaining any form of injury from any conventional physical attack,regardless of the amount of force or energy exerted against him."

Hmmm, does this counter the Hulk's infinite strength argument? As someone mentioned before though, being able to take damage and then dishing it back out effectively are two different things.

"This armor is made of an unknown mystical fiber that is completely indestructible to any level of pressure,force,attack,or energy. Magically bonded to this suit is a helmet made of an unknown mystical metal that shields The Juggernaut from all psionic attacks,probes,scans,etc."

Not much in the way of proof however. I don't think Psylocke ever KO'ed him through his helmet but he has felt it twice. Ha, I just realized...his armor is probably nylon-based while his helmet is metal. Onslaught just put a little heat to it?

Either way...it'd be a great mini series spin off where they fought to the death....as long as it stayed out of continuity...

Awww, c'mon! If its official it'll cut these crazy length threads down to size...the vast majority of them actually seem to be "X vs Hulk" or "X vs Juggernaut". Our boys are popular aren't they? 😆

Unless they're caged together I think their first fight back in #172 is the best indicator of how it'll turn out. Hulk wins by removing Juggernaut from the fight.

I own all three (?) Marvel roleplaying games, maybe I'll play this fight out in all three and see what happens one day? Has anyone done this? Best 3 out of 5 in each system?

Rhino vs Surfer. That was a cool comic! I started going to the zoo a whole lot more after that, never know what you're missing (besides half the ppl in the world)! 🙂

His skin however is supposed to be the equal of his armor.
"Known Superhuman Powers:The Juggernaut's body is completely invulnerable. His skin cannot be broken and he is incapable of feeling pain or sustaining any form of injury from any conventional physical attack,regardless of the amount of force or energy exerted against him."

Well thats a whole lot bull sh*t seeing as how Hulk slaped juggy around pretty easily and about killed him when he was dressed as War but whatever ur little sites say.

"Rhino vs Surfer. That was a cool comic! I started going to the zoo a whole lot more after that, never know what you're missing "

Do as I did. Buy a Marvel Legends Surfer figure, throw it in the Rhino enclosure and film it. See what happens haha.

(I didn't actually do this).

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

That's another big misconception. He doesn't need time but just because he has it, doesn't mean he will continually get mad. It is possible for him to stay at a certain level of anger for continualy amounts of time. You tell me to deal with it when I'm really not the one arguing with a biased view JuggernautFan.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]
Which "defeat" are you refering to? The one when Hulk didn't fight back?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Oh yes of course. You know that I don't own those comics and all that. Yeah, you know how I don't know that Hulk had his powers augmented. I own those comics and I know how it happened, don't try to undermine me because it simply wont work. The more you underestimate me the more open this debate is. Juggernaut being 100 feet tall is disgraceful writing. The mountain thing I'll admit was one dubious piece out of an awesomely written piece. I admit that. Juggernaut doesn't need to be 100 feet tall. He doesn't. It's pointless.

well i do know that it wasn't just that particular comic ( 457 ) that says why hulk was able to stop juggernaut. it was a mini series that lead up to it. which is what most people dont know.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Having the opinion that Hulk can't be beaten by Juggernaut is alot more truthful than Hulk having 0% chance. That is a fact.

could you tell me where i said 0% chance of him winning?? i dont remember typing that, and if i did, i was probably just trying to get under somebodies skin, did it work??

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Well supposing in the Hulk's you don't own, Hulk displays some phenomenal feat of strength? You wouldn't know. You're judging everything Juggernaut has ever done against some of Hulk's accomplishments.

just because hulk has done them, doesnt mean juggernaut cannot. juggernaut hasn't been shown -nearly- as much as hulk has. which is why he hasn't had a chance to perform feats in question. name a few if you dont mind???

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

He fought Surfer for a whole comic. It was a whole comic of him getting whooped. There's a difference.

let me ask you this....... when has hulk beaten surfer??? another thing, what does silver surfer have to do with anything?? juggernaut has never ran into him, so we dont have a direct comparison that way. but hulk vs rhino has happened, and juggernaut vs rhino has happened. hulk may have won, but so did juggernaut........ in a depowered state.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Again, there are more Thor and Hulk fans than Juggernaut. If you're trying to display a villain that needs more exposure, you don't get him whooped out of the way. Thor and Hulk are both looked upon as good guys despite Hulk being a neutral so it's typically gonna end in a draw. However, most of the time Hulk beats Thor. Thor can't even rely on Mjolnir in his fights with Hulk anymore coz it does nothing. Thor feared for his life when he started smacking Hulk up with Mjolnir and it did nothing. Who wouldn't? Oh....of course....Juggernaut wouldn't....

the last part doesnt make sense to me, but thor has whipped out every last trick he has against juggernaut. but has he against hulk??? no. because he doesnt need to.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Just coz he only remembers the one punch it doesn't mean there was reason to dismiss the fact that there could have been a fight. He was battered, that didn't come from one punch. Almost killed him. Wow, unstoppable force indeed. The thing is, I'm specific when I address battles. You say "When they fought....." and let that be it. Try being specific.

well, it is funny how juggernaut only remembers that one punch..... there could have been a fight, but the circumstances are unknown..... that's why it shouldn't be a valid point. onslaught happens to be a psion, which is a major downfall of juggernauts.... not of hulks. just different attributes, and it means nothing. but we do have information to go on from the second fight. which was shown ON PANEL. it involved psionics.

there is also an off-panel hulk, juggernaut battle. but do you know why it isn't every brought up??? because that's exactly what it is... it's off panel.

a little boy named stevie finds the gem of cyttorak and uses it in a way that juggernaut never could. it shows 1 panel of a boy using juggernauts power against him. then it says that he had help from hulk in doing it. but again, it was offpanel so its invalid, because there are too many "what ifs" a person could throw in. and here is something else for you .........

Originally posted by Thor

I cannot help but wonder -- where in all the world is power enough to defeat the undefeatable?

Originally posted by Thor
RRRRR impossible to breathe! Losing... consciousness.... mayhaps e'en Life itself...?

when has thor ever had to question if he was losing his life in a fight with hulk?? when has he ever questioned hulk as being undefeatable?? i

i look forward to hearing from you, i assume you will have much to say.

"uhhh that would be the one im talking about, but hulk did fight back. "

Funny how you knew which one I meant. Quite a revealing parapraxis.

"could you tell me where i said 0% chance of him winning?? i dont remember typing that, and if i did, i was probably just trying to get under somebodies skin, did it work??"

I don't think it's more than 5 pages back. It wasn't THAT long ago but given the rate people post it may have been shoved back. Doing it to get under people's skin is a bit childish don't you think? Soiling what is otherwise a great debate with sillyness.

"just because hulk has done them, doesnt mean juggernaut cannot."

So you're gonna assume Juggernaut can do everything Hulk can just because he hasn't done them.....? Strange that. Very strange.

"let me ask you this....... when has hulk beaten surfer??? another thing, what does silver surfer have to do with anything?? juggernaut has never ran into him, so we dont have a direct comparison that way. but hulk vs rhino has happened, and juggernaut vs rhino has happened. hulk may have won, but so did juggernaut........ in a depowered state."

It was in relation to you saying Rhino fought Hulk for a few pages. Hulk beat Rhino, Juggernaut beat Rhino. They both overcome the opponent. As you've said before, how it happens isn't really that big a deal at the end.

"no. because he doesnt need to."

Then I can say, because he knows it wont work. We go around again. You would think after the multiple times Thor has thrown it all at Hulk and it had ill effect, he'd step his game up. He isn't NOT doing it because he doesn't need to. It's because realistically they're both good guys and mainly because he can't beat Hulk.

"then it says that he had help from hulk in doing it. but again, it was offpanel so its invalid, because there are too many "what ifs" a person could throw in. "

Coming from the person who's main argument against the first Onslaught battle was "What if we just say there was not actual fight", this comment seems a little tainted.

"well, it is funny how juggernaut only remembers that one punch..... there could have been a fight, but the circumstances are unknown..... that's why it shouldn't be a valid point. onslaught happens to be a psion, which is a major downfall of juggernauts.... not of hulks. just different attributes, and it means nothing."

Why are you just saying actual facts mean nothing? It's quite evident there was a fight. You don't get cuts, bruises and damage all over your body from one punch to the face.

"RRRRR impossible to breathe! Losing... consciousness.... mayhaps e'en Life itself...?"

You think Hulk doesn't have the strength to make him utter such words? Seriously?

"when has thor ever had to question if he was losing his life in a fight with hulk?? when has he ever questioned hulk as being undefeatable?? i look forward to hearing from you, i assume you will have much to say."

You'd do well against Juggernaut because you appear to be a psychic. In the fight where Thor gets called in to take out the Hulk (when he thought, incorrectly, that he was wrecking the city) he witnessed the infamous atomic bomb incident. He realised everything he threw at the Hulk was doing nothing and he was doing more damage to everything else than Hulk. He seemed a little frightened then (Sarcasm). Thor never feared Juggernaut enough to keep out of the way of being grabbed. He keeps his distance from Hulk coz he knows what will happen. You wanted fear and it's there. Personally I've never seen fear like the look on his face when he thought he beat Hulk and Hulk just mocked him.

-AC

eyes hurt from.... reading so much...cant go on.*dies*

Jugg Jugg Jugg

You vote against the Hulk anyway you can just because you hate him. So you're biased. Invalid.

-AC

Yup I hate that green s.o.b. Jugg, dont get offended

Doesn't bother me. Just kinda spoils debates when people have needless biased views.

-AC

On the side of Jugg being the fav of mine. I still think Jugg would win in a fight

You started this thread and have only posted a few times. Most of them being out of hatred for Hulk.

But it's your choice how you post.

-AC

17* to be exact

lol

Well 17 posts of Hulk hating or maybe the odd constructive post.

Not much considering there's 32 pages.

-AC