Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Accel
The main difference between Cain and those characters is that they don't have the level of invulnerability he has so when they fight, it's much easier to gauge their strength. When Juggs fights, his durability is often credited moreso than his strength.

I'd like to see that proof as well.

And no one is saying that Cain is weak, but that doesn't mean he has Unlimited Strength.

Gladiator's powers are repeatedly stated to be tied to his
Confidence.

Darkseid draws directly from the Destructive aspect of the Source if I remember right, he draws what he needs unlike Cytorrak who gives Cain some energy, and then more later when it's time for him to serve his purpose.

Silver Surfer has access to the Power Cosmic, which can be drawn from nearly everything. Again, he's one who can consciously draw more without others being in control of that.

If Juggs could draw on as much of Cytorrak's power as he wished he'd be Trion 24/7.

Honestly even though he hasn't been stated he does have a case for it. Like I've said be before is concrete does it completely prove that he is unlimited no like most things it needs to be handled with kid gloves but it is there and honestly people need to understand that no is proclaiming Juggs to be unlimited but he does have high strength and he the ability is there.

Originally posted by newjak86
Once agian though he never really battles cutting loose the way people say. The way it seems is that something has stopped him from playing around not that he he was powered up. I can show you some more instances but I have to wait till after this match like I said but they are there where Cain draws on more power to do something.

Okay, I'm gonna wait and see. Goodies goodies goodies!

Yeah you can but then again all those people have been tested as well. The reason Cain doesn't have any lifting feat is because he doesn't need them to show what he is. He was designed to be a force to push heros to the max not someone who goes around lifting things

I would agree. However, the Hulk isn't totally about lifting either. He's about smashing. But yes, lifting, bending and breaking is large part of Hulk history as an action hero, since physical strength is what he excells in. I'd say the Hulk's durability or stamina(which has been debated extensively, I might add) is just about the comparable to what Juggernaut's strength is is to him. The thread Juggernaut poses is mainly the fact that he's completely unhurtable under any circumstance. Add to that his strength and you have a powerful foe. But still, he's not known for his strenght.

There are many characters like that Darkseid, Orion, Silver Surfer do you doubt how strong those guys are no becasue A) they all fight against people that are really stronge. same thing with Cain he fights the likes of Hulk and Thor and even then he never really seems to be fully tested he never seems to really be trying.

I never said Juggernaut couldn't hang with other powerhouses. He can. I'm just not convinced he would be able to do so on strength alone. He needs his durability and stamina. I guess you could say that he's lazy BECAUSE of his durability, but that's debatable. Juggernaut seemed to be trying in the Hulk's first fight. He was being arrogant, but he's not an idiot. If you want to beat the Hulk you're gonna HAVE to try, and Juggernaut knows it.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Hulk can Knock Juggernaut to Pluto, he would still return to earth under his own power, and the rules state if a combantant can return the the battllefield under his own power, the fight is not over.

Hulk can keep knocking him out till a black hole/worm hole sucks him up into another universe, and he he falls to a planet or somethign before he catches himself and starts to walk are you saying he can just start walking home from there?

Suddenly I can see Juggernaut lying down and trying to walk his way back up and I can't help but laugh 😆

Originally posted by newjak86
And Cain is directly linked to Cyttorak which is where he gets his power and he also seemingly can call upon more of it through Focus 😕

Honestly even though he hasn't been stated he does have a case for it. Like I've said be before is concrete does it completely prove that he is unlimited no like most things it needs to be handled with kid gloves but it is there and honestly people need to understand that no is proclaiming Juggs to be unlimited but he does have high strength and he the ability is there.

Cain is directly linked, but Cytorrak controls the flow of it from what I know now, but I'll wait for your scans/proof before I continue with this any more.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
I never said Juggernaut couldn't hang with other powerhouses. He can. I'm just not convinced he would be able to do so on strength alone. He needs his durability and stamina. I guess you could say that he's lazy BECAUSE of his durability, but that's debatable. Juggernaut seemed to be trying in the Hulk's first fight. He was being arrogant, but he's not an idiot. If you want to beat the Hulk you're gonna HAVE to try, and Juggernaut knows it.

Cain once overpowered Hulk and was about to break his neck is that Durability alone.

Originally posted by newjak86
The point I was trying to make with this statement was not that Cain could hang with Powerhouses but that there is a good number of people in comics that don't have the lifting feats of Hulk or Superman but no one doubts that they are as strong or stronger why based soley on the ability for that said person to hang and grapple with those powerhouses. Same thing with the Juggernaut the only difference is that with Juggs great Durability people seem to be a bit skeptical but if you think about it to overpower someone Durability doesn't matter it is strength alone.

Cain once overpowered Hulk and was about to break his neck is that Durability alone.

It was the Hulk who overpowered Juggernaut. Juggernaut was already attempting to break his neck, but Hulk got angry and overpowered him. The panel itself says so. The Hulk began to fatigue because he wasn't fighting with his heart. He just wanted Him to stop bothering him.

Originally posted by newjak86
The point I was trying to make with this statement was not that Cain could hang with Powerhouses but that there is a good number of people in comics that don't have the lifting feats of Hulk or Superman but no one doubts that they are as strong or stronger why based soley on the ability for that said person to hang and grapple with those powerhouses. Same thing with the Juggernaut the only difference is that with Juggs great Durability people seem to be a bit skeptical but if you think about it to overpower someone Durability doesn't matter it is strength alone.

Cain once overpowered Hulk and was about to break his neck is that Durability alone.

From a Respect Thread:

Hulk vs. Juggernaut. IH #172.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7126/juggernautih172a7ov.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3733/juggernautih172b7jc.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8090/juggernautih172c2fx.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6931/juggernautih172d9ib.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3692/juggernautih172e0ph.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9702/juggernautih172f0ap.jpg

Juggernaut's stamina outlasts a tiring Hulk, which seems to be a sign of Gravage but in #172 that's a bit late for him. He's shown to last much longer after that.

Hulk picking Juggs up from behind him to throw? Strength.

Originally posted by Dalak
From a Respect Thread:

Hulk vs. Juggernaut. IH #172.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7126/juggernautih172a7ov.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3733/juggernautih172b7jc.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8090/juggernautih172c2fx.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6931/juggernautih172d9ib.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3692/juggernautih172e0ph.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9702/juggernautih172f0ap.jpg

Juggernaut's stamina outlasts a tiring Hulk, which seems to be a sign of Gravage but in #172 that's a bit late for him. He's shown to last much longer after that.

Hulk picking Juggs up from behind him to throw? Strength.

Here is my question to you, How do you know how powerful Juggernauts Punches where, for all we know, each punch Juggernaut was hitting hulk with could of been class 10,000 force. Remember, Juggernaut has manhandled MANHANDLED people who gave Hulk Trouble in battle. Manhandling someone doesn't require durability, just Strength. I mean he Bear Hugs Thor, And was going to kill him until Odin intervened. How Strong is Thor, not strong enough to escape Juggernauts Grip it seems.

Originally posted by Dalak
From a Respect Thread:

Hulk vs. Juggernaut. IH #172.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7126/juggernautih172a7ov.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3733/juggernautih172b7jc.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8090/juggernautih172c2fx.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6931/juggernautih172d9ib.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3692/juggernautih172e0ph.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9702/juggernautih172f0ap.jpg

Juggernaut's stamina outlasts a tiring Hulk, which seems to be a sign of Gravage but in #172 that's a bit late for him. He's shown to last much longer after that.

Hulk picking Juggs up from behind him to throw? Strength.

Heck when Hulk is talking about Tiring he is seems like he is tired of fighting and wants to get it over with. Not that he is actually tiring.

Juggs is also not taking the fight seriously the entire time he is ranting not really tring. In fact by the time he actually seems like he wants to really get it on the X-Men show up. thats why most people didn't like that issue because it was cut short before they really got into fight. The point is though despite everything Cain is putting Hulk and his punches are really hurting Hulk that is strength.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Here is my question to you, How do you know how powerful Juggernauts Punches where, for all we know, each punch Juggernaut was hitting hulk with could of been class 10,000 force. Remember, Juggernaut has manhandled [b]MANHANDLED people who gave Hulk Trouble in battle. Manhandling someone doesn't require durability, just Strength. I mean he Bear Hugs Thor, And was going to kill him until Odin intervened. How Strong is Thor, not strong enough to escape Juggernauts Grip it seems. [/B]

Well, there's also the difference between villain and hero. The reason Hulk never directly defeats, say, Thing is because nobody likes to see a classic battle like that end in one punch. Hell, I as a Hulk-fan wouldn't want to see that. My poin is that it doesn't mean much.

Originally posted by newjak86
The only real mention of Hulk tiring is when Cain is about to break the neck.

Heck when Hulk is talking about Tiring he is seems like he is tired of fighting and wants to get it over with. Not that he is actually tiring.

Juggs is also not taking the fight seriously the entire time he is ranting not really tring. In fact by the time he actually seems like he wants to really get it on the X-Men show up. thats why most people didn't like that issue because it was cut short before they really got into fight. The point is though despite everything Cain is putting Hulk and his punches are really hurting Hulk that is strength.

His punches only hurt Hulk when he seemd fatigued. His first two blows didn't do anything. The third he simply didn't expect. And there's no telling what the fight would've been like if Prof. X didn't show up.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Well, there's also the difference between villain and hero. The reason Hulk never directly defeats, say, Thing is because nobody likes to see a classic battle like that end in one punch. Hell, I as a Hulk-fan wouldn't want to see that. My poin is that it doesn't mean much.

😐

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Well, there's also the difference between villain and hero. The reason Hulk never directly defeats, say, Thing is because nobody likes to see a classic battle like that end in one punch. Hell, I as a Hulk-fan wouldn't want to see that. My poin is that it doesn't mean much.

The point is though I Cain not holding back being serious knocked thing in 3 punches could Hulk do the same maybe but he has never shown it. Fact is Juggs does have that on Hulk probably until Hulk does it himself.

Originally posted by Dalak
Hulk can keep knocking him out till a black hole/worm hole sucks him up into another universe, and he he falls to a planet or somethign before he catches himself and starts to walk are you saying he can just start walking home from there?

Suddenly I can see Juggernaut lying down and trying to walk his way back up and I can't help but laugh 😆

Juggernaut brings his Shield up, Hulk never touches him, Juggernaut Knocks him into orbit.

😐

Originally posted by Dinalfos
His punches only hurt Hulk when he seemd fatigued. His first two blows didn't do anything. The third he simply didn't expect. And there's no telling what the fight would've been like if Prof. X didn't show up.

In fact everytime he hit Hulk it seemed to do something to Hulk the only thing Hulk really did in the fight was throw him and walk away it seemed as though Cain had the match up till that point.

How would the fight had ended no really knows.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
😐

Oh great. I forgot it was you.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Well, there's also the difference between villain and hero. The reason Hulk never directly defeats, say, Thing is because nobody likes to see a classic battle like that end in one punch. Hell, I as a Hulk-fan wouldn't want to see that. My poin is that it doesn't mean much.

Juggernaut Ko'ing, thing in one punch doesnt count for anything, KO'ing the Stranger in one punch, none of that means nothing..............

😕

Originally posted by newjak86
What you mean Hulk hits him doesn't do anything to Cain and then Juggs hits him sending Hulk flying seems like his first hit did something 😕

In fact everytime he hit Hulk it seemed to do something to Hulk the only thing Hulk really did in the fight was throw him and walk away it seemed as though Cain had the match up till that point.

How would the fight had ended no really knows.

Huh? Hulk's first act was stopping a charging Juggernaut in his tracks. From behind, even. Juggernaut then hit him over a mountain, which left him unscathed. As did Juggernaut's second charge(which was a full charge since he shattered a mountain along the way). After Juggernaut attacked an unsuspecting Hulk(who only wanted the fight to end) from above, Hulk hit him. Juggernaut kicked him down and tried to break his neck, but got overpowered.

I'd say the match was fairly even, until Hulk overpowered him at least for that moment. Despite Juggernaut's cheap trick.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Juggernaut Ko'ing, thing in one punch doesnt count for anything, KO'ing the Stranger in one punch, none of that means nothing..............

😕

What? Huh? Uhm? He?

Originally posted by Dinalfos
What? Huh? Uhm? He?

Wow dude, I'm not even going to do this with you, you called Juggernaut Manhandling people nothing.

Your Unbelievable.