Originally posted by Dinalfos
Just because Juggernaut talks a lot, doesn't mean he's holding back. If the Hulk went all out, Juggernaut wouldn't have time for his little speeches. He would be fighting all the time. Remember, Hulk didn't want to fight. When he does, you'll know it.Juggernaut even says that he considers Hulk nearly his physical equal. You don't hold back against those guys. Besides that, Juggernaut has a funtional memory. That means he can remember than only minutes before he was stopped twice and casually thrown on top of a mountain. You don't hold back against guys like that either. Anyway, with all the leverage he had, Hulk could not have pulled him if he didn't get stronger. There's your overpowering. Backed up by the writer.
One more thing, there's a difference between not holding back and going all out. Neither were going all out, and neither were truly holding back. It's just that when Hulk got angry, he proved that he can overpower Juggernaut. That's all.
So what if Hulk hit Juggernaut over a mountain, he is never going to hurt him, Juggernaut enjoys this, you can see it in his history, its in his character, he enjoys people trying every thing they can to hurt him, to no effect. He's a cocky mutha who knows he cant be hurt physically. I don't think I would try if I was in Jugges shoes either, he already knows Hulk can never Hurt him no matter what he does.
And yes, Juggs almost considers Hulk his equal, almost........
Originally posted by Apolloknight
So what if Hulk hit Juggernaut over a mountain, he is never going to hurt him, Juggernaut enjoys this, you can see it in his history, its in his character, he enjoys people trying every thing they can to hurt him, to no effect. He's a cocky mutha who knows he cant be hurt physically. I don't think I would try if I was in Jugges shoes either, he already knows Hulk can never Hurt him no matter what he does.
Ah, a familiar tactic. Back to the hurting or not hurting, if you're running out of arguments. Fine. You already know my answer.
And yes, Juggs almost considers Hulk his equal, almost........
Apparantly, they're not equal. As was shown at the end of the fight.....
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Ah, a familiar tactic. Back to the hurting or not hurting, if you're running out of arguments. Fine. You already know my answer.Apparantly, they're not equal. As was shown at the end of the fight.....
What where Juggernaut says "he just dosent get it".
And what the hell are you talking about, it is in his character, Juggernaut never EVER fights like he really wants to. He knows no one can hurt him ever so, why should he be worried about hulk, who is one dimesional.
Hulk "Hulk smash puny Juggernaut"
Juggernaut "Whatever you say buddy 😆 "
Originally posted by Apolloknight
What where Juggernaut says "he just dosent get it".And what the hell are you talking about, it is in his character, Juggernaut never EVER fights like he really wants to. He knows no one can hurt him ever so, why should he be worried about hulk, who is one dimesional.
Hulk "Hulk smash puny Juggernaut"
Juggernaut "Whatever you say buddy 😆 "
Huh? Juggernaut is just as one dimensional, if you're talking about character abilities. A few magical tricks don't make up for the fact that he's still a brawler.
And if you're talking about character depth, then Hulk has Juggernaut beat in every category. Because there's also Bruce Banner.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
If he were able to break his neck at all. He tried it and failed.
😕
I just said he never would of even tried to break his neck because he would of just healed from it........what does your post have to do with Hulk getting hit with a massive Uppercut instead, which more then likely would of KO'ed him, he was weakened in just two blows.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
😕I just said he never would of even tried to break his neck because he would of just healed from it........what does your post have to do with Hulk getting hit with a massive Uppercut instead, which more then likely would of KO'ed him, he was weakened in just two blows.
He wasn't weakened, he was hit at his weakest possible state(calmness). Big difference. And a massive Uppercut is speculative. He has endured worse than Juggernaut's assaults.
Originally posted by DinalfosYeah is true most of the time Cain isn't going all out why would this be any different. Hulk wasn't KOed but in two hits Cain had him on the ground.
Just because Juggernaut talks a lot, doesn't mean he's holding back. If the Hulk went all out, Juggernaut wouldn't have time for his little speeches. He would be fighting all the time. Remember, Hulk didn't want to fight. When he does, you'll know it.Juggernaut even says that he considers Hulk nearly his physical equal. You don't hold back against those guys. Besides that, Juggernaut has a funtional memory. That means he can remember than only minutes before he was stopped twice and casually thrown on top of a mountain. You don't hold back against guys like that either. Anyway, with all the leverage he had, Hulk could not have pulled him if he didn't get stronger. There's your overpowering. Backed up by the writer.
One more thing, there's a difference between not holding back and going all out. Neither were going all out, and neither were truly holding back. It's just that when Hulk got angry, he proved that he can overpower Juggernaut. That's all.
He may have looked at him as somewhat his Physcial Equal doesn't change the fact that he basically says he is going to kill him like it isn't even a problem.
Yeah niether one was truely going to form but the problem is that if they aren't truely going all out that tells you right there the fact that Cain was grabbed and thrown was basically Hulk getting angry enough to simply Catch cain off Guard trying to break his neck.
Heck after he downs Hulk he stands there talking to him like yeah I just beat your gonna die. tell me if Juggs was trying to do everything he could to put Hulk down would he have waited to talk to him when he was down no why because Cain really wasn't going all out or even in the realm of all out.
Originally posted by DinalfosHe is trying to say Cain wasn't worried like most of the time he is. Cain hardly ever takes fights seriously with people he normally just wants to go somewhere and if you happen to get in his way well then he gets you out of it.
Huh? Juggernaut is just as one dimensional, if you're talking about character abilities. A few magical tricks don't make up for the fact that he's still a brawler.And if you're talking about character depth, then Hulk has Juggernaut beat in every category. Because there's also Bruce Banner.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
He wasn't weakened, he was hit at his weakest possible state(calmness). Big difference. And a massive Uppercut is speculative. He has endured worse than Juggernaut's assaults.
So then my argument is correct, a non-enraged, to a moderatly enrage Hulk can be Ko'ed.
Thanks for clearing that up.
And Stranger has endured Hulks assults, twice, and couldnt handle a single punch from juggernaut, and Thing couldnt handle a couple when he went toe-to-toe with Hulk for an extended period of time, so........
Originally posted by newjak86
Yeah is true most of the time Cain isn't going all out why would this be any different. Hulk wasn't KOed but in two hits Cain had him on the ground.He may have looked at him as somewhat his Physcial Equal doesn't change the fact that he basically says he is going to kill him like it isn't even a problem.
Yeah niether one was truely going to form but the problem is that if they aren't truely going all out that tells you right there the fact that Cain was grabbed and thrown was basically Hulk getting angry enough to simply Catch cain off Guard trying to break his neck.
Heck after he downs Hulk he stands there talking to him like yeah I just beat your gonna die. tell me if Juggs was trying to do everything he could to put Hulk down would he have waited to talk to him when he was down no why because Cain really wasn't going all out or even in the realm of all out.
Saying it =/= doing it.
He had him down because he jumped on him. A Hulk who was only seconds away from smiling at a butterfly. If Juggernaut went all out on him Hulk's adrenaline would skyrocked a lot faster than normal.
And like I said, they weren't going all out. But they weren't holding back either. When Juggernaut grabs him from behind with all the leverage he could possibly get, and pulls him overhead, then he is overpowered. Where does it say Juggernaut was cougth of guard? If that happened, they would've specified it. They didn't, however, because the writer knew that Hulk can become stronger, so why compromise?
Originally posted by Apolloknight
So then my argument is correct, a non-enraged, to a moderatly enrage Hulk can be Ko'ed.Thanks for clearing that up.
And Stranger has endured Hulks assults, twice, and couldnt handle a single punch from juggernaut, and Thing couldnt handle a couple when he went toe-to-toe with Hulk for an extended period of time, so........
Yes, he can be ko'd. Juggernaut failed to do it, though. And Hulk witstood far worse than Juggernaut's assaults.
Juggernaut was pushed back and otherwise owned by Gladiator. Hulk defeated him.
PIS? If you say so, then I can say Juggernaut shouldn't have defeated stranger.
Originally posted by newjak86
He is trying to say Cain wasn't worried like most of the time he is. Cain hardly ever takes fights seriously with people he normally just wants to go somewhere and if you happen to get in his way well then he gets you out of it.
Juggernaut has at the very least a sense of personal honor. He can clown around and STILL not pull his punches.
Juggs And Hulk were holding back in their 2 real battles, but one had the CIS of the Professor involved.
And saying something isn't in his powerset because he has to use an established power present in all Hulks isn't right.
Oh and Hulk probably DID punch through dimensions seeing as Onslaught had a sub-dimension holdling Nate and Franklin in him, and that was unified with his energy form after his physical form with all it's warpedness was destroyed by Hulk.
Anyway I'm gone fore the next couple of days, time for Dalak the Warpriest of Thor to go into battle once more with the infidels running around Faerun.
Originally posted by DinalfosJust like they would state that he had overpowered him and not some how when Hulk gets angry they would have actually stated it.
Saying it =/= doing it.He had him down because he jumped on him. A Hulk who was only seconds away from smiling at a butterfly. If Juggernaut went all out on him Hulk's adrenaline would skyrocked a lot faster than normal.
And like I said, they weren't going all out. But they weren't holding back either. When Juggernaut grabs him from behind with all the leverage he could possibly get, and pulls him overhead, then he is overpowered. Where does it say Juggernaut was cougth of guard? If that happened, they would've specified it. They didn't, however, because the writer knew that Hulk can become stronger, so why compromise?
Basically based on the fight I can tell Cain wasn't taking it seriously there is no sign of him really putting forth everything he had like you have admitted. Cain basically throughout the fight is basically in LaLa land talking about this and that and how Hulk just doesn't understand he is unhurtable.
there is nothing to support Hulk overpowering Cain like you said however as you've stated there is proof that enither one was really going all out in this fight because.
A) Hulk was pretty Calm
B) Cain wasn't being Hurt by Hulk at all and his attacks seemed to be doing fine
A+B=C
C) Is Juggs not really putting everything he has meaning he really was Off Guard when Hulk caught him by surpride with a sudden increase in strength.
I mean his reaction to it is all that is needed.
When it happened he wasn't like wait how did that happen I thought I was so much stronger than this guy guess I was wrong. No he was basically yeah whatever you still don't understand that I'm unstoppable right 🙄
Juggernaut has at the very least a sense of personal honor. He can clown around and STILL not pull his punches.Thats true to a sense. He does like to have good fights but what Hulk was giving him at the time was anything but a good fight. And Cain does pull his punches alot especially against the likes of weaker people as he doesn't see them as worth his time.
Look at the X-Men all he ever does is throw them out of his way becasue they keep getting in his way. But when he stops playing around(Because they had hurt Black Tom) what does he do he puts them all down with one Thunder Clap. Heck even with his fight with Thor the first time he spends most of his time laughing at Thor and making fun of him and his attacks.