Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by ODG
Because you require websites in addition to comics. I know this. And am still laughing in your face.

It proves that Juggernaut being held still in the air can still advance. Because he's unstoppable. If it were his forcefield advancing, you'd have a point. Since it was Juggernaut advancing, you don't. And a random wiki entry that has nothing to do with the scene doesn't change that.

Actual feats > character statements. Comics > websites. Debating > whining.

Right, because I use websites in all my debates, right? In this case, I believe it was fitting for the time and purpose of discussion.

And his force field isn't going to advance without him. All that showed was that he was able to push through a TK attack as if it were physical. If you want to take that ancient panel and ignore everything else in the characters more recent history, that's fine. But it doesn't make you right.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Right, because I use websites in all my debates, right?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yes

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Btw, it took Jugs 6 months just to break out of a cement block when Spider-Man beat him. It took him that long because he didn't have any momentum. He kept flexing until he eventually broke free.

Not sure using a terrible showing like that to prove him needing momentum actually helps his case. On one hand, he needs momentum to be unstoppable. On the other, it took him 6 months to break through concrete. Double edge dildo that one is.
Made even worse by him being stopped while walking through drying concrete.

In any case, it's been shown that once he starts moving in a general direction he's supposed to be unstoppable. Otherwise he just shouldn't be moved. Unfortunately for him, he was moving in Hulk's general direction in the WWH tie-in.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16973378/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0027.jpg.html

That is a sloppily forward moving Juggernaut right before they lock up. IE, unstoppable. Hulk had less problems stopping Juggernaut than he did actually brawling with him. Hilarity ensues.

I think it better to use the "Hulk directed the force downward" approach that I believe the writer stated. Unfortunately for your butt, that also comes from a website.

Though, I admittedly read like 2 posts from you using websites against ODG, so I'm just going by the assumption that one of you says he needs momentum, and the other isn't. But that doesn't matter in the Julk fight.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Not sure using a terrible showing like that to prove him needing momentum actually helps his case.

Doesn't help his case as far as winning the fight, no. But that's not really what we are talking about at the moment. And every character has low showings. The point of the initial question asked of me (the other thread) was if the fight from WWH continued.

What I saw was proof that Juggernaut was able to hurt the Hulk. Is there any denying that Cain is strong enough to damage WWH? The main way Hulk will stay in the fight is his healing factor. But Hulk provided a way around that with his battle earlier with Logan. Scramble the brain.

On one hand, he needs momentum to be unstoppable. On the other, it took him 6 months to break through concrete. Double edge dildo that one is.
Made even worse by him being stopped while walking through drying concrete.

In any case, it's been shown that once he starts moving in a general direction he's supposed to be unstoppable. Otherwise he just shouldn't be moved. Unfortunately for him, he was moving in Hulk's general direction in the WWH tie-in.

He's not moving. He's pushing. It would be like you trying to push a car with its breaks on. They were using the ground below as leverage.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16973378/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0027.jpg.html

That is a sloppily forward moving Juggernaut right before they lock up. IE, unstoppable. Hulk had less problems stopping Juggernaut than he did actually brawling with him. Hilarity ensues.

I think it better to use the "Hulk directed the force downward" approach that I believe the writer stated. Unfortunately for your butt, that also comes from a website.

Though, I admittedly read like 2 posts from you using websites against ODG, so I'm just going by the assumption that one of you says he needs momentum, and the other isn't. But that doesn't matter in the Julk fight.

You should read more of the posts before you jump to conclusions.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Doesn't help his case as far as winning the fight, no. But that's not really what we are talking about at the moment. And every character has low showings. The point of the initial question asked of me (the other thread) was if the fight from WWH continued.

What I saw was proof that Juggernaut was able to hurt the Hulk. Is there any denying that Cain is strong enough to damage WWH? The main way Hulk will stay in the fight is his healing factor. But Hulk provided a way around that with his battle earlier with Logan. Scramble the brain.

He's not moving. He's pushing. It would be like you trying to push a car with its breaks on. They were using the ground below as leverage.

You should read more of the posts before you jump to conclusions.

Juggernaut moving his legs forward in a running stance = not moving forward. Got it. He threw a running uppercut at him and then got halted. Unless Juggernaut kicks his back leg up to throw an uppercut while he's standing still... which is all sorts of gay.

I should read more posts before I jump to conclusions? So, you aren't saying Juggernaut needs forward momentum to be unstoppable? Fine, suits me. Hulk stopped Juggernaut still.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And Hulk made Juggernaut cry out in pain in the same fight. Juggernaut can hurt him, Hulk can hurt him. Good for them.

Juggernaut moving his legs forward in a running stance = not moving forward. Got it. He threw a running uppercut at him and then got halted. Unless Juggernaut kicks his back leg up to throw an uppercut while he's standing still... which is all sorts of gay.

I should read more posts before I jump to conclusions? So, you aren't saying Juggernaut needs forward momentum to be unstoppable? Fine, suits me. Hulk stopped Juggernaut still.

Except they were already face to face at that point as shown here:

So he wasn't running toward him in the pic you linked, they were just continuing to trade blows.

I know they were face to face. That doesn't mean one can't move forward. Especially when the next page of their fight had Hulk's face on the ground and Juggernaut headbutting Hulk's stomach. Because people you know... MOVE in fights.

Hulk was on the backfoot, and Juggernaut looked to be doing a running uppercut in the scene where Hulk stops Juggernaut. Moving forward in other words. Or, if you want an in depth analysis, Juggernaut's feet were moving in a forward direction. There's also the possibility that Juggernaut was moving forward.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I know they were face to face. That doesn't mean one can't move forward. Especially when the next page of their fight had Hulk's face on the ground and Juggernaut headbutting Hulk's stomach. Because people you know... MOVE in fights.

Hulk was on the backfoot, and Juggernaut looked to be doing a running uppercut in the scene where Hulk stops Juggernaut. Moving forward in other words. Or, if you want an in depth analysis, Juggernaut's feet were moving in a forward direction. There's also the possibility that Juggernaut was moving forward.

Sure people move in fights, but jugs was trading blows with hulk there, he didn't charge him.

Also, there are no motion lines in the art to suggest Jugs is traveling once he's already face to face with Hulk.

Charging is a travel feat. Juggernaut is unstoppable once charging.

As far as I can tell it looked like they first startet to slug it out, then both got an good grip and Juggs startet his momentum, he started to move against Hulk resisting him, against Hulks strength. So he needed first to build enough force to start moving before he became unsoppable and Hulk, as soon as the first step was as sure to come, let him go and with him all the pressure Juggs build, to bfr him. But it speaks volumes why he preferred to bfr Juggs instead of besting him in combat imho.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
As far as I can tell it looked like they first startet to slug it out, then both got an good grip and Juggs startet his momentum, he started to move against Hulk resisting him, against Hulks strength. So he needed first to build enough force to start moving before he became unsoppable and Hulk, as soon as the first step was as sure to come, let him go and with him all the pressure Juggs build, to bfr him. But it speaks volumes why he preferred to bfr Juggs instead of besting him in combat imho.

Juggernaut took a step waaaaayyyy before Hulk let him go and Hulk stopped him afterwards. Then, after the stoppage, Juggernaut and Hulk are in a standstill position, Professor comes out and Hulk moves to the side and Juggernaut was unable to stop since his forward charge momentum was in play. Looking at the scans, this is basic, dont understand why this argument has lasted so long. Hulk stopped Juggernaut unstoppability. Nothing new since a weaker form did the same thing.

Originally posted by carver9
Juggernaut took a step waaaaayyyy before Hulk let him go and Hulk stopped him afterwards. Then, after the stoppage, Juggernaut and Hulk are in a standstill position, Professor comes out and Hulk moves to the side and Juggernaut was unable to stop since his forward charge momentum was in play. Looking at the scans, this is basic, dont understand why this argument has lasted so long. Hulk stopped Juggernaut unstoppability. Nothing new since a weaker form did the same thing.

Nope he didn't they were just punching each other and Hulk, judging from the scans didn't stop him, he was pushed back, look at the footprint.

Weather the writer knows or he is ignorant how juggrnauts powers work. I think is clear that he implied that eventually Juggernaut will have won that pushing contest.

That was why hulk being smarter used jugs power against his own.

Plus is clear that the writer also intended to say that juggernaut got distracted in the middle of that encounter by professor X

Nothing of the sort. You have no basis for such speculation. Hulk had him at a standstill and this was Hulk treating him casually, not straining or putting any extra effort into it, just holding him still.

Juggernaut's "unstoppability" was over-powered, none of this insanity about him "needing to charge up" to be unstoppable, that's never been the case when Juggernaut walked on air or when he's previously managed to push War Hulk a mile back, when they two had locked-up.

Just like then, Juggernaut was stopped by Hulk, except what War Hulk needed a mile to amp himself up to, Green Scar did in centimetres of space.

Also, the scan prior to them locking up shows Juggernaut running at Hulk, ffs!

And Rao, the writer knew Juggernaut's powers well enough, everybody does. The writer intended exactly what we saw, though clearly some of you deeply wish otherwise. He even stated that Hulk stopped Juggernaut's forward momentum.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Right, because I use websites in all my debates, right? In this case, I believe it was fitting for the time and purpose of discussion.

And his force field isn't going to advance without him. All that showed was that he was able to push through a TK attack as if it were physical. If you want to take that ancient panel and ignore everything else in the characters more recent history, that's fine. But it doesn't make you right.

No sh1t, sherlock. Juggernaut was advancing, not the forcefield. Because even though he was held still and suspended in mid-air, his unstoppability enchantment was still working.

Originally posted by Odekahn
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Btw, it took Jugs 6 months just to break out of a cement block when Spider-Man beat him. It took him that long because he didn't have any momentum. He kept flexing until he eventually broke free.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Weather the writer knows or he is ignorant how juggrnauts powers work. I think is clear that he implied that eventually Juggernaut will have won that pushing contest.

That was why hulk being smarter used jugs power against his own.

Plus is clear that the writer also intended to say that juggernaut got distracted in the middle of that encounter by professor X

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The only one running was Hulk tbh. And If Hulk would have stopped the Juggernaut and would have been sure to beat him physically, why not simply do it and bfr him instead? You threat someone to kill him, see you can't, bfr him for good. Easy.

Here is no running:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16973378/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0027.jpg.html
Only a slugfest then lock.

And before that we see WWH charge and run at Juggs, which makes sense, so he can prevent Juggs from gaining momentum and becoming unstoppable.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16973376/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0023-24.jpg.html

Still Juggs started to push Hulk back and that's why Hulk used Juggs unstoppability against him.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
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The only one running was Hulk tbh. And If Hulk would have stopped the Juggernaut and would have been sure to beat him physically, why not simply do it and bfr him instead? You threat someone to kill him, see you can't, bfr him for good. Easy.

Here is no running:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16973378/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0027.jpg.html
Only a slugfest then lock.

And before that we see WWH charge and run at Juggs, which makes sense, so he can prevent Juggs from gaining momentum and becoming unstoppable.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16973376/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0023-24.jpg.html

Still Juggs started to push Hulk back and that's why Hulk used Juggs unstoppability against him.

Honest question, do you wear glasses. Look at the first scan, Juggernaut took a forward step. After that, he didnt move out of that spot, Hulk had him had him at a standstill. Professor X had time to get up, walk upstairs and open the door and they were still in the same spot.

Pay attention to detail my friend.

Let me help some of you all out since detail is very hard to come by. Juggernaut took a step in the 3rd panel of Batman Prime first scan.

For what I saw on that feat is that Juggernaut was momentarily stopped, but will eventually move again as he is unstoppable.

Just like saying that hulk can only delay the inevitable, and that is why he used his momentum against him.

the scans showed previously one states that juggernaut needs momentum to become unstappable (pak's) while lee's do not says anything on that sort. But the writter on that story was Gage, so i am not sure how much familiar is Gage with juggernauts powers.

And if I am not quoting properly is because I am on mobile, so is hard to write as it is, just in case.