Concerning the WAR/Juggernaut battle...
and...
Those excerpt were taken from the "Green Mail" editorial responses at the end of IH #461. The big wigs at Marvel were very particular about this: WAR's strength was amplified, therefore he and Juggy's battle wasn't necessarily indicative of how a battle between them would go if Hulk were at his normal levels.
I'm sure people will contest the above. Just throwing that out there, is all... Don't shoot the messenger.
Originally posted by Odekahn
He didn't walk up to him. They were shoulder width apart trading blows, lol.
How did they lock up if they did not walk into one another? Oh I see Cain just magically appeared in front of the Hulk, and they locked up in a test of strength, and the pressure marks below their feet were just there for shits and giggles.
Originally posted by Galan007
Concerning the WAR/Juggernaut battle...and...
Those excerpt were taken from the "Green Mail" editorial responses at the end of IH #461. The big wigs at Marvel were very particular about this: WAR's strength was amplified, therefore he and Juggy's battle wasn't necessarily indicative of how a battle between them would go if Hulk were at his normal levels.
I'm sure people will contest the above. Just throwing that out there, is all... Don't shoot the messenger.
And yet the Green Scar exceeded the amount of strength that War put out. War took time to stop Cain, the Green Scar passed anything that War was able to do on panel. So here's a question is it the same guy with the same power, or did the Skrull's switch the real Hulk out with a reasonable facsimile? The madder I get the....
Originally posted by OdekahnWebsites are irrelevant to the matter. The first time this momentum notion ever got mentioned was in X-Men: The Last Stand movie. At a time when, in the comics, Juggernaut was depowered and no longer unstoppable. Some of that crept into the comics via character statements at a time when Juggernaut was still fluctuating wildly. But based on Juggernaut's rich history, it's just not true. There hasn't been a single scene clearly showing Juggernaut's unstoppability being stymied because of a lack of momentum.
ODG,This^ was my reason for posting links to websites earlier. I simply wanted to show that the idea of "once he builds momentum" wasn't shared by myself alone. I knew it was only a matter of time before someone started saying something ridiculous like this.
But janus77's frustration is more about you refusing to see Juggernaut's silhouette charging at Hulk with a running uppercut. There really isn't a way around that. He's charging forward at Hulk and your refusal to admit it is insulting at this point. Websites have nothing to do with that.
Originally posted by Stoic
How did they lock up if they did not walk into one another? Oh I see Cain just magically appeared in front of the Hulk, and they locked up in a test of strength, and the pressure marks below their feet were just there for shits and giggles.
They were pushing against the ground for leverage, both trying to gain momentum to push the other back.
Imagine two pro wrestlers trading punches (without the need to stomp for sound effects) and then they lockup. Neither has momentum at first. That's all that was.
Originally posted by ODG
But janus77's frustration is more about you refusing to see Juggernaut's silhouette charging at Hulk with a running uppercut. There really isn't a way around that. He's charging forward at Hulk and your refusal to admit it is insulting at this point. Websites have nothing to do with that.
Originally posted by ODG
Websites are irrelevant to the matter. The first time this momentum notion ever got mentioned was in X-Men: The Last Stand movie. At a time when, in the comics, Juggernaut was depowered and no longer unstoppable. Some of that crept into the comics via character statements at a time when Juggernaut was still fluctuating wildly. But based on Juggernaut's rich history, it's just not true. There hasn't been a single scene clearly showing Juggernaut's unstoppability being stymied because of a lack of momentum.But janus77's frustration is more about you refusing to see Juggernaut's silhouette charging at Hulk with a running uppercut. There really isn't a way around that. He's charging forward at Hulk and your refusal to admit it is insulting at this point. Websites have nothing to do with that.
I will agree to disagree with you about the uppercut. I do understand how you see it the way you do, I just simply don't agree.
Websites do not prove anything and I wasn't so much trying to use it as proof as I was trying to get the point across that I didn't make it up.
And actually, I'm pretty sure it was stated as early as the 90s cartoon.
Originally posted by janus77
There are scans of it, where Apocalypse states the purpose of the tech.I'm just not bothering to engage with his lunacy. As highlighted, he has no coherent position whatsoever and makes up "facts" about The Juggernaut, that he pulls out of his arse.
You want to believe him, go ahead 🙂.
Lol nah his theoretical outcome differ from mine but im just sayin its a valid point and shouldnt be too quick to be dismissed.
You might wonder at how a character can gain "instant momentum" from what is supposedly a "standing start", yet gain no momentum whatsoever from running at least a few paces, prior to this alleged "standing" position.
You might also wonder why, if all a character is doing is pushing with his arms, when the opposing force he is pushing against moves away, instead of toppling over (being that all the force in his push is coming from his upper body) he runs straight ahead?
Seems to me that pushing with your upperbody only, having "no momentum", would be quite a bit like leaning into a wall with your arms against it and your feet further back. If the wall disappears, you would fall over, not find yourself running past it and into the next house.
Originally posted by OdekahnI watched that cartoon religiously. It absolutely did not.
I will agree to disagree with you about the uppercut. I do understand how you see it the way you do, I just simply don't agree.Websites do not prove anything and I wasn't so much trying to use it as proof as I was trying to get the point across that I didn't make it up.
And actually, I'm pretty sure it was stated as early as the 90s cartoon.
The Unstoppable Juggernaut.
Apparently this whole time for the past 50 years, it was:
The Unstoppable (But Only While Moving!!!) Juggernaut.
Doesn't sound forced at all.
Originally posted by OdekahnThe cartoons had Gladiator pretty much stop and embarrass Juggernaut.
I will agree to disagree with you about the uppercut. I do understand how you see it the way you do, I just simply don't agree.Websites do not prove anything and I wasn't so much trying to use it as proof as I was trying to get the point across that I didn't make it up.
And actually, I'm pretty sure it was stated as early as the 90s cartoon.
And given Hulk's superiority in physical terms to Gladiator ... That's an awful lot of ammo you're shooting into your feet... Are you trying to stop yourself from ever gaining any momentum?
Originally posted by janus77
You might wonder at how a character can gain "instant momentum" from what is supposedly a "standing start", yet gain no momentum whatsoever from running at least a few paces, prior to this alleged "standing" position.You might also wonder why, if all a character is doing is pushing with his arms, when the opposing force he is pushing against moves away, instead of toppling over (being that all the force in his push is coming from his upper body) he runs straight ahead?
Seems to me that pushing with your upperbody only, having "no momentum", would be quite a bit like leaning into a wall with your arms against it and your feet further back. If the wall disappears, you would fall over, not find yourself running past it and into the next house.
Right, but that's what is so funny about juggernaut. Hulk was smarter and used Cains enchantment against him. Why he ran instead of stopping himself OR falling over? It's comics.
And he can still push with his legs, thus the ground being messed up below. But until he starts to gain traction he doesn't have the momentum.
Originally posted by janus77I might have confused you with how I worded the sentences. Gladiator "stopped" him, but he didn't stop a charge or stop Juggernaut from pushing him or anything like that. Gladiator no-sold a punch, lifted up Cain by an arm into the air, and flung him away. But Juggernaut's been sent soaring into orbit in the comics, so not something new or novel.
Didn't Gladiator swing him off into the distance?I'm pretty certain that's what he did.